Trying to understand Dispensationalism

Hello @EclipseEventSigns,

Perhaps you would explain why I should not gain my understanding of what' dispensationalism' means by the word 'dispensation' and it's usage in Scripture? There should be no reason to venture elsewhere. The dispensationalists I have met would agree with me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
One is a doctrine and the other is a biblical word. The two are not the same.

Its like trying to compare the biblical word baptism with the doctrine of baptism. Or the word atonement with the doctrines of the atonement.

Its apples to oranges.
 
One is a doctrine and the other is a biblical word. The two are not the same.

Its like trying to compare the biblical word baptism with the doctrine of baptism. Or the word atonement with the doctrines of the atonement.

Its apples to oranges.

Hello @civic,

Thank you for that word of explanation. It makes such a difference when someone takes the trouble to explain themselves.

The words dispensation -'al' & 'ism' though surely derive from the use of dispensation in the Scriptures, for without it's usage there, there would be no such word's used in relation to the study of the Scriptures which takes the dispensations of God's dealings with mankind into consideration. The word dispensation describes an administration or economy, a stewardship, such as that given to Paul in both the Corinthian reference (1 Cor. 9:17), and that of Ephesians & Colossians (Eph. 3:2 & Col.1:25).

Dispensationalism is a word of man's devising, used to describe a principle of interpretation based on rightly dividing the word of Truth: but as with all of mans devices, they can become corrupted. I cannot speak for what it has become, for I am not interested in the, 'ism', only what the word of God reveals concerning the dispensations that 'ism' sought to study, and proclaim. Life is just too short. :) I want to know Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Trying to understand Dispensationalism​


What a waste of time!
That is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

anti dispensationalism is a waste of time since they do not rightly divide the Word of Truth- Scripture.

The Jews/ Israel are not the church and those who oppose the doctrine are forced to spiritualize all the literal and physical promises God beginning with Abraham and all his descendants with Israel.

hope this helps !!!
 
That is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

anti dispensationalism is a waste of time since they do not rightly divide the Word of Truth- Scripture.

The Jews/ Israel are not the church and those who oppose the doctrine are forced to spiritualize all the literal and physical promises God beginning with Abraham and all his descendants with Israel.

hope this helps !!!
Hello @civic,

I am not anti by any means, for as I have said, I am dispensational in my reading of Scripture. Yet the pursuit of the understanding of an 'ism' in and of itself is of no value. It is only of value if it leads to a knowledge of God in Christ Jesus. It is merely a means to that end, and not the end in itself.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
That is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

anti dispensationalism is a waste of time since they do not rightly divide the Word of Truth- Scripture.

The Jews/ Israel are not the church and those who oppose the doctrine are forced to spiritualize all the literal and physical promises God beginning with Abraham and all his descendants with Israel.

hope this helps !!!
What a sweeping accusation! Rightly dividing the Word of God is not something that dispensationalists (dps) have a corner on. In fact, although I don't deny that there are some dsp who do a pretty good job in the word - people like Chuck Smith, who is with the Lord now, yet it seems to me that the deeper one gets into the dsp doctrine, the more likely they are to misinterpret much of the Bible. I listened to Chuck's teaching over a long period and grew spiritually as a result and I think this is one reason why - because he never spoke much about the doctrine of dsp. In fact, in all of his teachings that I heard, he never even mentioned it.

On the other hand, I found those who major on dsp in their teaching, are more likely to present questionable teachings on the rest of scripture. Take civic's two accusations above for example. Both of them are untrue.

1. I'm sure there are many anti -dsp who do not rightly divide the Word of God, but to say or even imply that ALL anti-dsp do that is an extreme falsehood.
2. To say that we anti-dsp are "forced to spiritualize all the literal ... promises of God ... with Abraham and ... his descendants with Israel", is also not true. Some verses are meant to be spiritualized and some are meant to be taken literally. We're not FORCED to do either, rather we attempt to see how the author intended his words to be taken. The dsp, on the other hand, will say they take all of scripture literally, but they don't. They spiritualize many verses, just like we do. In fact, if anyone takes ALL of scripture literally, they are definitely misinterpreting a TON of verses.

Look at the words of Jesus for a perfect example. Numerous times He spoke words that obviously were NOT literal. "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out." "I go to awaken him (Lazarus) out of his sleep." etc. On the other hand, much of what He said was literal. Much of prophecy is obviously not to be taken literally- other parts ARE. Many prophets speak of the judgment on a nation using symbolic, not literal terms - stars are falling from heaven, the sun will not give it's light and the destruction of this nation is like a horde of locusts, etc. Revelation has literal passages, but it seems that the majority of the book is symbolic.

I have found the same principle to be true with Calvinism, which I believe is also a false doctrine. My wife and kids and I began to go to a new church years ago. We loved it. The people were family-friendly, the teaching was very good, the fellowship was very good, etc. After several months of attending there, I just happened to ask one of the pastors what they believed about the doctrine of Calvinism. "Oh" he said, "we are reformed (which means Calvinists) in our beliefs here." In the several months we attended, I never heard one word about Calvinism, even though that's what they believed.
By way of contrast, years ago a Christian couple, who happened to be our landlords, attended a church that was saturated with Calvinism. When the couple, after a fairly long time, told the pastor that they didn't believe in Calvinism, he told them to leave the church - in fact, he was extremely rude about it, labeling them heretics. They mistakenly thought that they could continue at that church, even if they didn't accept Calvinism.
 
Here's what George Mueller (1805-1898) (Christian evangelist and orphanage director in England) had to say about dsp:

"My brother, I am a constant reader of my Bible, and I soon found that what I was taught to believe did not always agree with what my Bible said. I came to see that I must either part company with John Darby, or my precious Bible, and I chose to cling to my Bible and part from Mr. Darby."



John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) didn't care for Christians that disagreed with his new dsp doctrine. He would refuse having any fellowship with them and considered them to be apostate. They were the one's, ironically, who had the scriptural basis to refuse to fellowship with him, because of his false teaching. But for him to reject them, Christians who believed the truth, is a mark of most sects and cults.

Albertus Pieters (1869-1955) a reformed minister commented on the C. I. Scofield Bible, where Scofield published Darby's teachings in his own version of the Bible:
"one of the most dangerous books on the market"

Other quotes about Darby:
"What is becoming more and more evident to me is that Darby had the tendency to present things as new (and sometimes as 'his') years after they had been presented by others."

"Darby borrowed from others and even plagiarised their ideas to formulate his Dispensational theory."
 
If you want to understand dispensationalism, buy a Scofield reference Bible. I had one. I gave it away. I didn't care much for the notes.
I never have cared for Study Bibles with notes on every page. They seem just too much in making one think they're equal with the actual scriptures. I don't mind commentary notes just don't have them blended in with a Bible.
 
Many prophets speak of the judgment on a nation using symbolic, not literal terms - stars are falling from heaven, the sun will not give it's light and the destruction of this nation is like a horde of locusts, etc. Revelation has literal passages, but it seems that the majority of the book is symbolic.
Some is of course.....eg Rev 12:1 A woman clothed in the Sun....a whole passage talking about it. Other things too.....I do suspect preterists take that to an extreme though.
"Oh" he said, "we are reformed (which means Calvinists) in our beliefs here." In the several months we attended, I never heard one word about Calvinism, even though that's what they believed.
And that suggests to me that in practical terms the Pastors there really don't want anything to do with it. Yes it's on the books but they know intuitively it takes away people's faith and hope.

By way of contrast, years ago a Christian couple, who happened to be our landlords, attended a church that was saturated with Calvinism. When the couple, after a fairly long time, told the pastor that they didn't believe in Calvinism, he told them to leave the church - in fact, he was extremely rude about it, labeling them heretics.
Trust me I'm far from a defender of Calvinism. I'm always opposed to it when it comes to Tulip. About the pastor you spoke of above to be fair there probably is many pastors who are Calvinistic that would never treat a couple like that. He seems like he's an extreme individual.

 
"Darby borrowed from others and even plagiarised their ideas to formulate his Dispensational theory."
Borrowed? Are you meaning money or thoughts and ideas? As for plagiarizing ideas I wouldn't think in the bigger picture none of that matters. If an idea is scriptural none of that truth belongs to the person prior. No body should really want to have a reputation anyway of being the first to get something.
 
'For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.'

(1Co 1:19)

@Rockson, @civic, @dwight92070

Why don't we strip away all of these, 'isms, and simply let the word of God speak?

:)
An "ism" is defined as distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, and it becomes a paradigm in ones thinking. One needs to refer to the whole system by what it is so it can be addressed point by point.
 
An "ism" is defined as distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, and it becomes a paradigm in ones thinking. One needs to refer to the whole system by what it is so it can be addressed point by point.
Plus is gives everyone a reference as to what a person believes in their systematic approach to scripture.
 
I think the problem with the ism of dispensationalism is that people tend to think "this is the church age, Israel is not part of it", or "later the church age (time of the gentiles) will be over and God will focus on Israel". There may be a hint of truth to that, but it's not that black and white.
 
Borrowed? Are you meaning money or thoughts and ideas? As for plagiarizing ideas I wouldn't think in the bigger picture none of that matters. If an idea is scriptural none of that truth belongs to the person prior. No body should really want to have a reputation anyway of being the first to get something.
These are not my allegations - they are taken from "The History of Dispensationalism" by ELMARIE (of For Love of His Truth). So my understanding of plagiarizing ideas would be to take someone else's written interpretation of scripture word-for-word, then publish it, giving no credit to the person from whom you got that idea,and if confronted, claim that it was your own idea, and that you first came up with it.
For example, it is widely known that Kenneth Hagin (called the father of the Word of Faith movement) plagiarized large sections of E. W. Kenyon's (the actual father of word of faith) Christian teaching books - word-for-word. When confronted about it, Hagin confessed nothing, but claimed that he got his teaching from the Holy Spirit, not from Kenyon's books. It is obvious that he was lying, because I have looked at Hagin's writings in his books and compared them to Kenyon's writing - huge sections are exactly the same word-for-word. Kenyon's peak in popularity was probably 30-40 years before Hagin's.
There's nothing wrong with writing or repeating someone else's ideas about scripture - we do it here all the time. But if questioned, we should be honest and say where we got that information from. Of course it would be good to give our source up front, if that is possible - i.e. if we know the source. Often times we repeat things that we have heard, without knowing the original source. That could be good or bad or even neutral.
The dictionary says: to commit literary theft; to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.
A
 
Just there being "dispensations" is not what people usually mean by the doctrine of "Dispensationalism."

And that's the problem, it has come to mean more than just it's basic English word definition.

Much like the "Reformed" faith, which now means Calvinism, when the basic meaning of "Reformed" is something every Christian fits.

So if I say, "every sincere Bible-believer is Reformed!" that is going to be confusing to a lot of people.
The "Reformed faith" isn't a "Faith" at all it's nothing but a "Theological system" - a collection of "beliefs", some accurate, and some not.
 
These are not my allegations - they are taken from "The History of Dispensationalism" by ELMARIE (of For Love of His Truth). So my understanding of plagiarizing ideas would be to take someone else's written interpretation of scripture word-for-word, then publish it,
Yeah sure. I get it.

For example, it is widely known that Kenneth Hagin (called the father of the Word of Faith movement) plagiarized large sections of E. W. Kenyon's (the actual father of word of faith)
Yeah but I've heard Hagin say many, many times and trust me I've heard so many, tapes of his, "One writer put it this way...."You said that you could not....and doubt rose up like a giant and bound you" and he'd go on. Hagins book to were
transcripts from his sermons that staff would put together. As well he used Kenyon books at least one of them that the students would have in class.

The Name of Jesus book (of Hagin's) was even worked out with Ruth Kenyon working with the editor. You should read what Kenyon's Publishing House says about this issue. Seems they want to back him on the issue.



The dictionary says: to commit literary theft; to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.
A
Well as for me I don't think any one should be upset that someone shared a same idea. If an idea is truth and is the truth of God it's owned by God.
 
Some is of course.....eg Rev 12:1 A woman clothed in the Sun....a whole passage talking about it. Other things too.....I do suspect preterists take that to an extreme though.

And that suggests to me that in practical terms the Pastors there really don't want anything to do with it. Yes it's on the books but they know intuitively it takes away people's faith and hope.


Trust me I'm far from a defender of Calvinism. I'm always opposed to it when it comes to Tulip. About the pastor you spoke of above to be fair there probably is many pastors who are Calvinistic that would never treat a couple like that. He seems like he's an extreme individual.
You may be right on both counts.
 
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