Transmitting The Fallen Nature

[praise_yeshua]

Really.

Do you think Adam knew Jesus?

Do you think when they walked in the cool of the day, they were 20 feet away, kept their eyes down, and never said a word?

And this is eternal life, that they may know You (Jn. 17:3 NKJ)

How is there everlasting life without the Atonement?

Brother you are making a mistake to believe the Adam was just gifted eternal life in the beginning. Your sense of "Justice" is causing you issues in seeing these facts.

When God sought to make man in His own image and after His own likeness. That "target" was never Adam. He was just part of the process. Incomplete. Humanity has been targeted for conformity.

The "willing" servant. What right did Adam have to eternal life?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You Jesus changed from being impeccable like the Father to peccable like you . That’s mutable .

hope this helps !!!

It is sad to see "sin" becoming the "cornerstone" of Divinity. Christ served US.... not sin.

 

[Dizerner]

How is there everlasting life without the Atonement?

You think without any sin you STILL need atonement?!!!

You just need Jesus to suffer wrath NO MATTER WHAT, even if you NEVER sin?!!!

Brother, your thinking seems confused.

The "willing" servant. What right did Adam have to eternal life?

He never sinned (until he did).

 

[Dizerner]

Your Jesus changed from being impeccable like the Father to peccable like you . That’s mutable .

That's called becoming a man.

We call it "the incarnation."

YOUR Jesus tacked on a "for show" human nature with NO PERSONHOOD that is just a REMOTE ZOMBIE AVATAR, while he watched his personless avatar with no free will die for your sins.

That's not the Bible Jesus.

I'll tell you that!

 

[praise_yeshua]

You think without any sin you STILL need atonement?!!!

You just need Jesus to suffer wrath NO MATTER WHAT, even if you NEVER sin?!!!

Brother, your thinking seems confused.



He never sinned (until he did).

Now we are getting somewhere. What value was there in the bodily form of Adam before he signed.

 

[Dizerner]

It is sad to see "sin" becoming the "cornerstone" of Divinity. Christ served US.... not sin.

You really want God to just ignore sin, huh?

That's pretty messed up.

 

[civic]

That's called becoming a man.

We call it "the incarnation."

YOUR Jesus tacked on a "for show" human nature with NO PERSONHOOD that is just a REMOTE ZOMBIE AVATAR, while he watched his personless avatar with no free will die for your sins.

That's not the Bible Jesus.

I'll tell you that!

Nope no change in His Divine nature- thats the KENOSIS HERESY.

 

[civic]

You really want God to just ignore sin, huh?

That's pretty messed up.

projecting- you make sin greater than God.

 

[GeneZ]

Women have physical DNA just as much as men.

Jesus was the seed of David, so he had actual physical DNA that traced back to David.

---- To the ancients to say a progeny was from the seed of a woman, to them, was seen as weird.
For the progeny was always listed as the seed of the man.

 

[GeneZ]

The man is not without the woman. There were countless men in the ancestry of Mary.

But all those men had human fathers cause conception.

 

[GeneZ]

Women have physical DNA just as much as men.

Not in her ovum. For it takes two to make the DNA complete!

The male DNA is the carrier.

 

[sawdust]

You said Adam died spiritually. That is what YOU said. It is not an assumption.



That is an assumption on your part. We know you are wrong because of what Paul stated.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Why didn't you deal with this when I posted it?



I understood your claim. I've heard the claim my entire life. The verse you claim do not establish your position.

There are concepts of dichotomy and trichotomy here. Adam was a living soul. There is no indication of everlasting life in Adam from the beginning. None.

Yet you are insisting this is true by claiming that Adam spiritually died.

Yes, I said Adam died spiritually and you assumed that meant God's Spirit left him even though I had said nothing about God's Spirit abiding in him in the first place.
It is not an assumption on my part, it is thinking based on what God said would happen if he ate from the tree. God didn't say you will die eventually, He said in dying you will die, two deaths.

I didn't address your Cor.15 passage as it has to do with the resurrection of the body, not spiritual death. I don't think you do understand at all what I mean by spiritual death.

I don't know what you have supposedly heard all your life but it is not what I am talking about. Being spiritually alive is not the same as being given eternal life. If Adam had eternal life when he was created then he could not have died. Apart from the fact that God has given His promise we shall not die, He has also given us eternal life which ensures we cannot die.

We are born spiritually dead which, is to be born body and soul only. This is why we must be born from above. We need to be spirit, soul and body. Spirit begets spirit, flesh begets flesh and God creates the soul which He imputes at birth.

 

[GeneZ]

You said Adam died spiritually. That is what YOU said. It is not an assumption.

When you are born again you received a 'human spirit." Made alive spiritually.

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. John 3:6​

Some get confused about the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is an additional gift given to the born again Christian.

Men right now on earth are physically alive.
But, God sees them as dead. Having no human spirit.

​

"He said to another man, “Follow me.” ​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:59–60 :​

Jesus spoke in one sentence of spiritual death. And, as well, physical death.

We are naturally born without a human spirit.
We were born physically alive, but spiritually dead.
That is why we need to be born again.

Jesus called the unregenerate people, "dead," though they were physically alive.

Adam died spiritually when he sinned. He became body and soul only in function.
He ceased being body, soul, and human spirit in function.

Keep in mind. Though dead? Physically, Adam ran and hid himself.
Adam did not die physically when he ate. He died spiritually.

grace and peace .............

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, I said Adam died spiritually and you assumed that meant God's Spirit left him even though I had said nothing about God's Spirit abiding in him in the first place.
It is not an assumption on my part, it is thinking based on what God said would happen if he ate from the tree. God didn't say you will die eventually, He said in dying you will die, two deaths.

Peter made it really clear.
2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Our timing isn't God's timing. You're judging God by our limits.

I didn't address your Cor.15 passage as it has to do with the resurrection of the body, not spiritual death. I don't think you do understand at all what I mean by spiritual death.

I still don't. You're trying to "have your cake and eat it too".

I don't know what you have supposedly heard all your life but it is not what I am talking about. Being spiritually alive is not the same as being given eternal life.

You need to establish this.

If Adam had eternal life when he was created then he could not have died.

Correct. Your problem. Not mine.

Apart from the fact that God has given His promise we shall not die, He has also given us eternal life which ensures we cannot die.

We still die. All you ancestors are dead. So are mine.

We are born spiritually dead which, is to be born body and soul only.

Nonsense. We lack the Spirit of God when we are born of the seed of Adam and Eve. Just like Adam did. Eve was taken from Adam.

This is why we must be born from above. We need to be spirit, soul and body. Spirit begets spirit, flesh begets flesh and God creates the soul which He imputes at birth.

We are born from above because that is one step in the process of conforming us to the image of Jesus Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

When you are born again you received a 'human spirit." Made alive spiritually.

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. John 3:6​

Some get confused about the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is an additional gift given to the born again Christian.

Bad translation. In fact. Horrible translation.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

You're confused. Not me.

Men right now on earth are physically alive.
But, God sees them as dead. Having no human spirit.

No human spirit? Geesh....

The soul came from the breath of God. Man became a living soul.

​

"He said to another man, “Follow me.” ​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:59–60 :​

Wow. You found a verse that says men are dead. How many are there in the Scripture you prefer? Is this suppose to be some astonishing discovery?

Men lacking the Spirit of God. Which I have told you from the beginning that Adam lacked from the beginning.

Jesus spoke in one sentence of spiritual death. And, as well, physical death.

No. There is nothing there that establishes such a claim.

We are naturally born without a human spirit.
We were born physically alive, but spiritually dead.
That is why we need to be born again.

Jesus called the unregenerate people, "dead," though they were physically alive.

Adam died spiritually when he sinned. He became body and soul only in function.
He ceased being body, soul, and human spirit in function.

Keep in mind. Though dead? Physically, Adam ran and hid himself.
Adam did not die physically when he ate. He died spiritually.

grace and peace .............

There is nothing in the narrative that establishes such. Nothing. You're reading your assumptions in the narrative.

Adam became "aware". He wasn't "aware" before. In fact, God said that Adam had become like "US"... in this awareness.

If Adam was spiritually alive, then his knowledge wouldn't have changed. He would have already had spiritual knowledge.

There has long been an issue here with how some treat the creation of Adam. God didn't "make up the process" as He went along. Christ was purposed from the foundation of the world to die for humanity. To bring about the willing conformity of human beings into Jesus Christ. The

FIRST.... of many brethern.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You really want God to just ignore sin, huh?

That's pretty messed up.

No. God dealt with sin among us. Sin that had already existed in Satan and others. I don't want God to ignore sin.

However, you want the Son to bow to sin. That places value upon sin. The value to God was HUMANITY.

 

[praise_yeshua]

But all those men had human fathers cause conception.

Correct. Which was in the seed of Mary. The seed for which Christ was formed in her belly. The Son of God. God incarnate.

That is why HE SUFFERED being like us.

 

[Dizerner]

However, you want the Son to bow to sin. That places value upon sin. The value to God was HUMANITY.

For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

 

[GeneZ]

Peter made it really clear.
2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To God it is that way Not to us.

Adam ate and immediately HID in fear! He was spiritually DEAD.

What did God do?
He covered the man and woman with animal skins.

To do that?
Animal blood was shed!

God performed a blood sacrifice.. Adam was then regenerated because Adam realized he was wrong and had repented.

Keep it simple...

 

[GeneZ]

Bad translation. In fact. Horrible translation.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

You're confused. Not me.

You got a job to do. I realize that.

What you got to do, do quickly.