There is no such thing as the gift of saving faith.
Total Depravity demands damnation.
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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brightfame52
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You must have spiritual life to come spiritually to Christ, otherwise we dead spiritually. Coming to Jesus . eating and drinking is a spiritual move, lest one is spiritually alive it cant be done Jn 6:44
You are self refuted
John 6:53 (NASB 2020) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
civic
Well-known member
Correct it’s an unbiblical concept which would mean God is unjust and shows favoritism. And we know the God if the Bible is not like that which proves Calvinism is wrong.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You must have spiritual life to come spiritually to Christ, otherwise we dead spiritually. Coming to Jesus . eating and drinking is a spiritual move, lest one is spiritually alive it cant be done Jn 6:44
You refuted yourself
John 6:53 (NASB 2020) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You must have spiritual life to come spiritually to Christ, otherwise we dead spiritually. Coming to Jesus . eating and drinking is a spiritual move, lest one is spiritually alive it cant be done Jn 6:44
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Ridiculous claim.
Eating and drinking is uniquely human.
Does God eat and drink?
It is so so utter preposterous the things you say.
I see Eph 2:8-9 to be techng there is...
John 4:10 Jesus answered, "If you knew the gift of God and who is asking you for a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
The change from dead to alive is a gift from GOD and is based upon the gift of faith to sinners, not by the sinners choice on earth but as the fulfillment of HIS election promise to those who chose faith in HIM by their free (not enslaved) will before they sinned and were flung to the earth...
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brightfame52
Well-known member
You must have spiritual life to come spiritually to Christ, otherwise we dead spiritually. Coming to Jesus . eating and drinking is a spiritual move, lest one is spiritually alive it cant be done Jn 6:44
Not spiritual eating and drinking. When God says feed the flock of God, you think He means give them steak and potatoes ? When the imperative is given desire the sincere milk of the word 1 Pet 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, NIV
So your comment is unlearned.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
If you're referencing "spiritual" things and "spiritual things are never relative to fleshly things"....
Then why the appeal to "milk"? and "BABIES"?
Are babies natural? Is "milk" natural?
You're really lost in that circular argument you've got going there. You're making spiritual dependent upon natural things. You Calvinist always do and you refuse to recognize it.
It really is so so silly.
Did God create the English language just for you to understand spiritual things?
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Doctrine of Total Depravity Demands That Regeneration Precede Faith! For Faith pleases God Heb 11:5-6
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Yet the unregenerate person is in the flesh and its written of them Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Yet the unregenerate person is in the flesh and its written of them Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You must have spiritual life to come spiritually to Christ, otherwise we dead spiritually. Coming to Jesus . eating and drinking is a spiritual move, lest one is spiritually alive it cant be done Jn 6:44
Not spiritual eating and drinking. When God says feed the flock of God, you think He means give them steak and potatoes ? When the imperative is given desire the sincere milk of the word 1 Pet 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, NIV
So your comment is unlearned.
John 4:10 never mentions any gift of faith
and Eph 2:8 shows salvation is the gift consistent with all of scripture
Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
No, it mentions a gift to life... if you think that does not include faith, then tell us what it includes,
???No, it mentions a gift to life... if you think that does not include faith, then tell us what it includes,
What do you mean by includedNo, it mentions a gift to life... if you think that does not include faith, then tell us what it includes,
The gift is life - salvation. God gives life to those who believe. He does not infuse faith in man.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Every unregenerate person is dominated by and compliant to Satan. He walks according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air. He is by nature a child of wrath Eph 2:1-3
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Now this manner of life continues uninterrupted as long as we are in nature
This changes only after the strong man satan is dethroned by the stronger Man Lk 11:20-22
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Now this manner of life continues uninterrupted as long as we are in nature
This changes only after the strong man satan is dethroned by the stronger Man Lk 11:20-22
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The unregenerate with the heart of nature cannot understand Spiritual Truth 1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated, [and he is unqualified to judge spiritual matters].AMP
Jn 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Naturally the heart of man hates Divine Spiritual Truth Jn 3:19-21
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Naturally the heart of man doesnt seek the True God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Doesnt have the Spiritual ability to believe obey Christ Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated, [and he is unqualified to judge spiritual matters].AMP
Jn 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Naturally the heart of man hates Divine Spiritual Truth Jn 3:19-21
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Naturally the heart of man doesnt seek the True God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Doesnt have the Spiritual ability to believe obey Christ Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Um that manner exists until one believes in Christ and as a result receives new life
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
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