The suppression of reason, logic, common sense and morality in Calvinism

[Rowan]

I was thinking about how fun would be if we could all get on a bus and take a road trip together. Say to the Grand Canyon And hike down some of the trails to the bottom.

 

[civic]

I was thinking about how fun would be if we could all get on a bus and take a road trip together. Say to the Grand Canyon And hike down some of the trails to the bottom.

or Yosemite

 

[Rowan]

or Yosemite

We could pass out gospel tracks and share the love of Jesus. Oh happy day, He washed my sins away. And now he's in my heart to stay.

 

[civic]

We could pass out gospel tracks and share the love of Jesus. Oh happy day, He washed my sins away. And now he's in my heart to stay.

But there are some who teach that God doesn't love every man, woman and child only those who are elect are the only ones Jesus loves and died for- the rest are left for the dung pile they were created for all for gods own glory. Those is hell are created for his glory didn't you know that ?

plus the gospel is not necessary for the elect since they were chosen before creation they are saved in time but some will even say they were saved before elect before creation. the gospel is not necessary for the elect. god saves them without the gospel and regenerates them then zaps them with faith to believe in god.

 

[Rowan]

But there are some who teach that God doesn't love every man, woman and child only those who are elect are the only ones Jesus loves and died for- the rest are left for the dung pile they were created for all for gods own glory. Those is hell are created for his glory didn't you know that ?

plus the gospel is not necessary for the elect since they were chosen before creation they are saved in time but some will even say they were saved before elect before creation. the gospel is not necessary for the elect. god saves them without the gospel and regenerates them then zaps them with faith to believe in god.

You mean like on the return trip the bus might only be partially full, some didn't make it out of the canyon?

 

[civic]

You mean like on the return trip the bus might only be partially full, some didn't make it out of the canyon?

yes exactly how god designed it to happen- one couple fell a 1000 feet into the canyon and fell to their death. they were elect and never heard the gospel but were saved anyways.

 

[Rowan]

yes exactly how god designed it to happen- one couple fell a 1000 feet into the canyon and fell to their death. they were elect and never heard the gospel but were saved anyways.

I hope one of the non-elect wasn't predestined to give them a little shove.

 

[civic]

I hope one of the non-elect wasn't predestined to give them a little shove.

I like taking the fictional beliefs and placing them in real life situations. It brings out the nonsensical concepts in a certain theology. I think one member started a thread about fictional characters recently.

 

[TomL]

You are part of creation. All things.

What he does however is not creation

 

[TomL]

correct there was no sin in the original 6 days of creation

Scripture and context opposes his claim

It does not mean sin and refers to creation

Hebrews 1:1–4 (NASB 2020) — 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

And upholding (φερων τε [pherōn te]). Present active participle of φερω [pherō] closely connected with ὠν [ōn] (being) by τε [te] and like Col. 1:17 in idea. The newer science as expounded by Eddington and Jeans is in harmony with the spiritual and personal conception of creation here presented.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Heb 1:3.

Your belief here is not biblical

Scripture is showing he does not uphold sin

God does not entice anyone to sin. Temptation comes about through our own lusts.


James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

God is not upholding temptation


These are not from god

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

God is not upholding the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life



God provides a way to avoid sin

1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

God is not upholding the inevitibility of any one particular sin

Its funny how Calvinists translate all


It never really means all unless it is helpful to a Calvinist argument

Sorry if anyones position suppresses reason, logic and common sense it would be yours.

But I wonder why anyone would charge God with upholding sin

 

[civic]

Scripture and context opposes his claim



But I wonder why anyone would charge God with upholding sin

Things that make you go hmmmmm

 

[TomL]

I like taking the fictional beliefs and placing them in real life situations. It brings out the nonsensical concepts in a certain theology. I think one member started a thread about fictional characters recently.

Like Rob the reprobate

 

[civic]

Like Rob the reprobate

Oh boy was that ever one that made white upset having to face up to the logical conclusions with his own theology which were exposed by Leighton

 

[TomL]

Oh boy was that ever one that made white upset having to face up to the logical conclusions with his own theology which were exposed by Leighton

Hey there is a new debate review by Al Garza Leighton noted he is a linguist who deals in the Hebrew and Greek

 

[Presby02]

What he does however is not creation

It's not? Do explain

 

[TomL]

It's not? Do explain

God did not create your actions or thoughts when he created the world

 

[Presby02]

God did not create your actions or thoughts when he created the world

He created me knowing my thoughts and actions. Thoughts or actions He could stop in a blink of a eye.

 

[TomL]

He created me knowing my thoughts and actions. Thoughts or actions He could stop in a blink of a eye.

So what?

Are you upholding your children's actions because of procreation

BTW typically Calvinist argue he knows man thoughts and actions because he determines them

 

[Presby02]

So what?

Are you upholding your children's actions because of procreation

BTW typically Calvinist argue he knows man thoughts and actions because he determines them

Nope. But I'm not God who maintains and upholds all things.

Actively or passively? First cause or second cause?

 

[TomL]

Nope. But I'm not God who maintains and upholds all things.

Actively or passively? First cause or second cause?

All things again in context refers to creation

God did not create man's sinful actions