The suppression of reason, logic, common sense and morality in Calvinism

[Presby02]

All things again in context refers to creation

God did not create man's sinful actions

And you and your sin are part of creation.

God created man knowing every single sinful act you would commit. So in a sense, yes He did.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

And you and your sin are part of creation.

God created man knowing every single sinful act you would commit. So in a sense, yes He did.

The reason they reject this is because they're convinced there's no third option. They think either you have libertarian free will, or you're a robot.

What they're missing is the fact that man has will, but it's not free. It is bound to sin by default. God doesn't force anyone to sin. He doesn't have to. We sin willingly. But, as you said, God created Adam knowing every sinful act he, and then we would commit.

 

[civic]

All things again in context refers to creation

God did not create man's sinful actions

Ditto

 

[TomL]

The reason they reject this is because they're convinced there's no third option. They think either you have libertarian free will, or you're a robot.

What they're missing is the fact that man has will, but it's not free. It is bound to sin by default. God doesn't force anyone to sin. He doesn't have to. We sin willingly. But, as you said, God created Adam knowing every sinful act he, and then we would commit.

So you contradict the belief God upholds sin propagated by Presby02

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So you contradict the belief God upholds sin propagated by Presby02

You obviously don't understand what he means by "upholds sin". It's not the same thing as forcing people to sin.

 

[TomL]

You obviously don't understand what he means by "upholds sin". It's not the same thing as forcing people to sin.

upholds - maintains, supports

 

[TomL]

And you and your sin are part of creation.

God created man knowing every single sinful act you would commit. So in a sense, yes He did.

Nope, God did not create sin

 

[Presby02]

Nope, God did not create sin

He did create the necessary conditions for sins however.

 

[TomL]

He did create the necessary conditions for sins however.

Sorry no

If God has made a way out so one mat avoid sin then sin in any given circumstance is not necessary

 

[civic]

He did create the necessary conditions for sins however.

No

 

[TomL]

No

Right the pride of life, the lusts of the flesh, the eyes are not from God

 

[Rockson]

He did create the necessary conditions for sins however.

He created something but you just have to make a necessary adjustment of what that something was. What that something was was that he created the necessary conditions for LOVE, free will and liberty to exist. I'd encourage you to take your mind off the arch enemy of God being death as something he wanted to occur. Know what brings delight to the heart of God as compared to that which he finds repulsive and breaks his heart.

 

[Presby02]

Sorry no

If God has made a way out so one mat avoid sin then sin in any given circumstance is not necessary

Sorry, yes, He has created all things such as the tree of good and evil and the serpent.

 

[Presby02]

He created something but you just have to make a necessary adjustment of what that something was. What that something was was that he created the necessary conditions for LOVE, free will and liberty to exist. I'd encourage you to take your mind off the arch enemy of God being death as something he wanted to occur. Know what brings delight to the heart of God as compared to that which he finds repulsive and breaks his heart.

Not something, all things including the necessary conditions for sin to enter His creation.

 

[Rockson]

Not something, all things including the necessary conditions for sin to enter His creation.

You need to settle with this that's a very perverse way you're assessing what God did and why. I told you God created necessarily conditions for LOVE, free will and liberty to exit and you say what you say above?

This might help. If a spouse of someone married, decides they're going to trust their partner, giving them freedom and not watching them like a hawk phoning them every ten minutes because they're choosing to be suspicious but they choose to create conditions where the other can feel that they trust them.....so what are you going to do??.....Accuse them of creating conditions whereby the other can fall into sin?

You position goes this way.....one who is showing trust and liberty is responsible and probably had intent that their spouse would sin. How crazy is that to imply that such would be the case? Sorry but that's what you're doing by wanting to harp on and accusing God of creating conditions for sin. So maybe you might want to dial that back?

 

[civic]

You need to settle with this that's a very perverse way you're assessing what God did and why. I told you God created necessarily conditions for LOVE, free will and liberty to exit and you say what you say above?

This might help. If a spouse of someone married, decides they're going to trust their partner, giving them freedom and not watching them like a hawk phoning them every ten minutes because they're choosing to be suspicious but they choose to create conditions where the other can feel that they trust them.....so what are you going to do??.....Accuse them of creating conditions whereby the other can fall into sin?

You position goes this way.....one who is showing trust and liberty is responsible and probably had intent that their spouse would sin. How crazy is that to imply that such would be the case? Sorry but that's what you're doing by wanting to harp on and accusing God of creating conditions for sin. So maybe you might want to dial that back?

great analogies

 

[Rockson]

great analogies

Thanks.

 

[TomL]

Sorry, yes, He has created all things such as the tree of good and evil and the serpent.

But he did not create your sin

 

[Presby02]

You need to settle with this that's a very perverse way you're assessing what God did and why. I told you God created necessarily conditions for LOVE, free will and liberty to exit and you say what you say above?

This might help. If a spouse of someone married, decides they're going to trust their partner, giving them freedom and not watching them like a hawk phoning them every ten minutes because they're choosing to be suspicious but they choose to create conditions where the other can feel that they trust them.....so what are you going to do??.....Accuse them of creating conditions whereby the other can fall into sin?

You position goes this way.....one who is showing trust and liberty is responsible and probably had intent that their spouse would sin. How crazy is that to imply that such would be the case? Sorry but that's what you're doing by wanting to harp on and accusing God of creating conditions for sin. So maybe you might want to dial that back?

I agree with you, He did. He also created the necessary conditions for the fall and for sin to enter in the world. I am not dialing nothing back.

 

[Presby02]

But he did not create your sin

He did however create the necessary conditions for its existence knowing it would come into existence. Purposely.