Title: So You Think Predestination Started When and With Whom?

Roman 4:
13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
When you read these Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile mindset you will come up with teaching that is foreign to the Word of God.
The Hebrew Scripture authored by Hebrew men is given to the Hebrew people. From Genesis to Revelation is a record of the Hebrew people, their culture, their religion, and their God. True Biblical Christianity is moored to the Hebrew religion in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Read the Hebrew Scripture with a Hebrew mindset - if you can - and come to the knowledge of then truth. I believe we will have to wait for the two witnesses of Revelation 11 whose prophecies will set the record straight.

How can you claim Gentiles are included in the New Covenant established by Christ with the House of Israel and the House of Judah? Jeremiah 31:31-34 says nothing of Gentiles in this covenant. God clearly says "I will establish me covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah - and neither of them are Gentile.
 
What kind of double mindedness is that?
To curse me of being ignorant and then to "bless" me in peace? There is no peace when men mutilate the Holy Word of God for doctrines and traditions of men.
There is no double mindedness. I call strikes and balls!
Your foolishness really amazes me. But I do have a low tolerance
for foolishness. Read Proverbs if you want to know more about
fools and foolishness!
Shalom
 
@jeremiah1five
I believe we will have to wait for the two witnesses of Revelation 11 whose prophecies will set the record straight.
Well now, that's your problem, they are here "NOW" witnessing to you, and you are rejecting their message!

Revelation 11:3​

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

Revelation 1:20​

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.”

Romans 11:24​

“For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?”

The two witnesses of Revelation eleven are the very elect Jews and Gentiles of the churches of God throughout this world! They are not two individuals coming during a suppose seven year tribulation period, etc.

Why are you rejecting their biblical testimony? Jeremiah, you have some truth mixed with a lot of errors. That's not to say, those speaking to you here are free from errors, because they are not.
 
@jeremiah1five

Well now, that's your problem, they are here "NOW" witnessing to you, and you are rejecting their message!

Revelation 11:3​

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”

Revelation 1:20​

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.”

Romans 11:24​

“For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?”

The two witnesses of Revelation eleven are the very elect Jews and Gentiles of the churches of God throughout this world! They are not two individuals coming during a suppose seven year tribulation period, etc.

Why are you rejecting their biblical testimony? Jeremiah, you have some truth mixed with a lot of errors. That's not to say, those speaking to you here are free from errors, because they are not.
Commentary on Revelation 11:3-12
These two witnesses testify about Yeshua, spread his Good News among the Jewish people in Jerusalem, prophesy,
and perform miracles while enjoying God's protection (vv. 5-6). Then the beast from the Abyss kills them (v. 7).
Their bodies lie in the main street of Jerusalem for three and a half days (vv. 8-9), after which they rise from death
and go up to heaven (vv. 11-12).

Revelation 1:20 CJB
Here is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold menorahs: the seven
stars are the angels of the seven Messianic communities, and the seven menorahs are the seven Messianic communities.

Shabbat Shalom
 
Sorry for the interruption but…

Here’s my understanding of the meaning of predestination.

Now let’s really listen to what the Lord told the soon-to-become a prophet for the LORD; his name was Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 (KJV) 4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

ahhhh. . . . s e l a h
 
Sorry for the interruption but…

Here’s my understanding of the meaning of predestination.

Now let’s really listen to what the Lord told the soon-to-become a prophet for the LORD; his name was Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 (KJV) 4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

ahhhh. . . . s e l a h

Yeppers. So correct.

Jeremiah was one of the ones chosen for a purpose of prophesy.

I have always maintained that there were those who were chosen... predestined... to do the thing God needed them to do, that did not include all of mankind for we all were not called to a Holy mission.
 
Abraham was a Gentile who was chosen by God to be the ancestor of the Jewish people.

The term Jew is a shortened form of the word Judah, which was the name of one of the tribes of Israel, the tribe of David and of Jesus (Matthew 1:1). Judah was also the name of the southern half of the kingdom of Israel when it split into two parts (1 Kings 12), because it was dominated by the large tribe of Judah. The first time the word Jew is used in the Bible is during the exile (2 Kings 25:25), and may have been a term coined by the Babylonians or Persians to refer to the people in their midst who had come from the kingdom of Judah. By New Testament times, Jew was a common term, and it has remained in usage unto this day. Obviously, Abraham was never referred to by this term.

The term Gentile is simply from the Latin word for “nation.” When the term Gentiles is used in Scripture, it means “the nations.” If a person is a Gentile, he or she is a member of one of the many nations in the world. When Jew and Gentile are juxtaposed, the contrast is between one who is a member of God’s chosen nation and one who is a member of one of the hundreds of other nations or ethnic groups not chosen for special blessing in the way that Israel was. In this context, Gentile simply means “not Jewish.”

Abraham started out as a member of one of the many nations or ethnic groups that were in existence at the time. (Of course, these are somewhat artificial distinctions, because all people came from Adam and Eve, and all people are related if the genealogy is traced back far enough. However, after Babel, people started to segregate into smaller groups and develop into distinctive ethnic groups, clans, and nations.) Abraham was living in Ur of the Chaldeans. While he was there, God called him:

“The Lord had said to Abram, ‘Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you’” (Genesis 12:1–3).

At that point, Abraham was called and set apart for God’s purposes. He left his native country and people behind. His descendants would become the great nation of Israel, God’s chosen people, but the line had not been narrowed down yet. Abraham had several sons: Isaac, by his wife Sarah; Ishmael, by a slave of Sarah; and other sons with another wife after Sarah died. However, it was only Isaac who was the chosen one. Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau, and only Jacob (whose name was later changed to Israel) was the chosen one. All of Jacob’s 12 sons were included as patriarchs in the nation of Israel and became the basis for the 12 tribes. It was at this point that the line had been finally set; however, the wives of Jacob’s sons were still from outside the family.

With the next generation of Jacob’s grandchildren, the descendants of Jacob became a distinct people group, and they were distinguished from the Egyptians among whom they were living as having all descended from one man named Israel. By the time of Exodus 1, they were recognized as a distinct nation.

Technically, no one was called a “Jew” before the exile; however, the people who became known as Jews were a distinct ethnic group by the time of Exodus 1. They were a distinct clan by the time of Jacob and his sons. Abraham was a Gentile, that is, a member of one of the many nations that had developed by his time. The Jews came from Abraham because he was chosen by God from among the nations to be the origin of a new nation. The Jews of Jesus’ day looked to Abraham (not Jacob/Israel) as the head of their race (see Matthew 3:9; Luke 3:8; John 8:39; Acts 13:26; Galatians 3:7). If one is thinking in these terms, it would not be wrong to think of Abraham as “the first Jew,” although that’s not technically correct.got?

hope this helps !!!
How funny. I have never thought about the origin of the word gentile.
 
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