Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Runningman]

Saying "the Father is the only true God" allows the Word to also be the only true God (John 1:1c). That's Monotheism which Trinitarianism is perfectly in line with. There's no getting around that no matter how many ad hominems you fling, or how many alterations you attempt, or how many verses you disregard (like John 1:1c).

Using "only" or "alone" makes no difference.
Saying "the only true God" or "the true God alone" means One True God, no others, a perfectly Monotheistic statement. Thank you for continuing to promote Trinitarian verses and Trinitarian beliefs. I can nominate you for Trinitarian Man of the Month for November, if you would like.

Ah, so long story short, you feel that translating the word monos as "only" gives you a bit more theological flexibility than if it is translated as "alone?" That isn't how this works. Only means the same thing as alone so the distinction to supplement your point is meaningless.

Did you know God referred to as a singular person (He, Him, His, You, I) and is repeatedly referred to as being alone throughout the Bible?

ref: John 17:3, Isaiah 44:24, Nehemiah 9:6, Malachi 2:10, Job 9:8, Psalm 33:6-9, Isaiah 40:13-14, Isaiah 45:5-6,18,12,21, Isaiah 46:9 Deuteronomy 4:35, 49, 6:4, 2 Samuel 7:22, 1 Kings 8:60, etc.

The list goes on and on as it is thorough, overwhelming, and exhaustive that God is a singular person.

It's because God isn't a trinity. You show awareness of what words means unlike some of the others. Since you understand that God being "alone" disqualifies a trinity or binity, then what is your work around for the pile of additional verses that explicitly refer to God being alone?

 

[Peterlag]

From the looks of your avatar I would guess you would see it that way.

The NWT translates John 1:1–3 like this:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god… All things came into being through it…”

But the actual Greek text destroys that translation:

Greek in John 1 Literal English Translation.
ὁ λόγος … πρὸς τὸν θεόν … θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος(ho logos … “the Word … was with the God … the Word was God”
pros ton theon … theos ēn ho logos)

meanin... The Word is a person who has a relationship with the Father. An “it” cannot be “with” someone.

αὐτὸς ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν θεόν(autos en archē “This one (masculine) was in the beginning with God”
pros ton theon) – v.2

meaning.... John deliberately uses the masculine pronoun αὐτός (“he”), not the neuter αὐτό (“it”).

δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο(di’ autou egeneto) – v.3 “All things through him came into being”

meaning..... Again, αὐτοῦ = masculine “him,” not neuter “it.” John repeats the masculine 5 more times in vv. 7, 10, 12–13.

ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us”
ἡμῖν(ho logos sarx egeneto) – v.14

meaning .... Only a person can become flesh, not a quality or an “it.”

Peter.... one question for you.....​

“If the Word is just an impersonal ‘it,’ why does John use masculine personal pronouns (he/him) over and over instead of the neuter ‘it’ that matches the neuter noun logos?”
Even the Kingdom Interlinear (the JW’s own Greek-English Bible) prints αὐτός and αὐτοῦ in the Greek column — they had to deliberately change “he/him” to “it” in the English side.

John didn’t write about an “it.” He wrote about a divine Person — the eternal Son who became flesh.

Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means. The pronoun is an "it" when it refers to an inanimate noun like the "Word" because Greek has grammatical gender and the "Word" in John 1 is a thing so the Greek says it's an "it."

 

[ProDeo]

I will ask you what I have asked some of the others here, because I don't recall talking to you yet, about the First and Last.

Since God is the First and Last and Jesus is the First and Last, then how do you reckon the First and Last was dead? Do you believe God the First and Last can die?

Revelation 1
17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.

Human reasoning.

Luke 1:34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy— the Son of God.
Luke 1:36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Have you forgotten ?

Better focus on what Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews :

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Ouch....

 

[TomL]

The Father told Jesus what to do and say and then Jesus tells the church what to do. Jesus is our high priest and mediator, not God. Don't nuke it. The Father is still alone the true God, nothing undoes that. I hope that helps you straighten it out.

Um did you fail to see

The answer to your question, however, is no, as I know the Father is also lord and master.

when

Jude 4 (NASB 95) — 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jesus is stated to be the ONLY lord and master

Yet we read/know God is lord and we read/know he is master

when the word only is used to declare Jesus as Lord and master

Your argument depended on a meaning of the word only which is clearly contradicted by scripture

 

[synergy]

Ah, so long story short, you feel that translating the word monos as "only" gives you a bit more theological flexibility than if it is translated as "alone?" That isn't how this works. Only means the same thing as alone so the distinction to supplement your point is meaningless.

Did you know God referred to as a singular person (He, Him, His, You, I) and is repeatedly referred to as being alone throughout the Bible?

Using "only" or "alone" makes no difference.
Saying "the only true God" or "the true God alone" means One True God, no others, a perfectly Monotheistic statement. Thank you for continuing to promote Trinitarian verses and Trinitarian beliefs.

ref: John 17:3, Isaiah 44:24, Nehemiah 9:6, Malachi 2:10, Job 9:8, Psalm 33:6-9, Isaiah 40:13-14, Isaiah 45:5-6,18,12,21, Isaiah 46:9 Deuteronomy 4:35, 49, 6:4, 2 Samuel 7:22, 1 Kings 8:60, etc.

The list goes on and on as it is thorough, overwhelming, and exhaustive that God is a singular person.

I'm still waiting for you to show me even one verse that explicitly says that God is a single person. Where is that verse?

It's because God isn't a trinity. You show awareness of what words means unlike some of the others. Since you understand that God being "alone" disqualifies a trinity or binity, then what is your work around for the pile of additional verses that explicitly refer to God being alone?

What workaround is required for the Monotheistic John 17:3 verse?

You, on the other hand, continue to bury your head and deny John 1:1 but it's not going away any time soon.

 

[civic]

I will ask you what I have asked some of the others here, because I don't recall talking to you yet, about the First and Last.

Since God is the First and Last and Jesus is the First and Last, then how do you reckon the First and Last was dead? Do you believe God the First and Last can die?

Revelation 1
17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.

This is just another uni diversion. The true identity of the One who is the First and the Last.

Rev 22:13, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”

We can see here that Whoever is the Alpha/Omega also claims to be the first/last AND the beginning/end. It’s the same Person.

If we look back in Rev 1:17-18 we see the following:

“…Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”

So, the One Who is first/last (and then is also Alpha/Omega and beginning/end) is the same Person who was dead and is alive forever more. It doesn’t take a scholar to figure out Who is the One speaking here. It does take a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away something so obvious.

The term "first/last" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice it is used along with "Alpha/Omega" with the Person claiming to be "first/last" AND the "Alpha/Omega."

"Alpha/Omega" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice with "first/last" and twice with "beginning/end."

"Beginning/end" occurs 3 times: twice with "Alpha/Omega" and once with "Alpha/Omega" AND "first/last."

In all of these texts, the speaker always refers to Himself with both or all of the titles. To say, "Well, this time it's Jehovah who is the first/last, this next time it's Jesus, then later it's Jehovah again..." is the mental gymnastics to which I referred.

Is God the first/last or is Jesus the first/last? Is God the Alpha/Omega or is Jesus the Alpha/Omega? Is God the beginning/end or is Jesus the beginning/end. An obvious way to reconcile the verses is to understand that Jesus is God.

According to unitarians, it seems God claimed to be the first/last in one sense while Jesus claimed to be first/last in another sense. You seem to gloss over the blatant connection of first/last with beginning/end and Alpha/Omega. In each verse, the Speaker who claims one title also claims one or both of the others. It's all the same person.

I really am baffled by their suggestion from other discussion in the past that “first/last” has some meaning here other than the obvious one (a title synonymous with Alpha/Omega). You even say that Alpha/Omega is never used of the Son? Incredible!! We both have said that context is king so I would like to remind other readers of the context of Rev 1:17-18 (beginning in v.10, Young’s Literal):

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'

And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.

And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, `Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.

Do you realize this is one scene? The Speaker identifies Himself in v. 11 as “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.” John turns to see who is speaking and sees “one like to a son of man” (other translations have “the Son of man”). Perhaps John is saying, "I saw someone who looked like Jesus." Then finally, in v. 17-18, the Speaker indeed identifies Himself as the One who is living and became dead and is now alive again forever.

Unitarians: I guess you identify the Alpha and Omega in v. 8 as Jehovah and v. 11 as Jesus? I guess you don’t see the term “the First and the Last” as a title equivalent to “the Alpha and Omega”? If so, you are definitely seeing something in the text that an ordinary reading doesn’t see beacuse of your bias.

It’s a title ascribed to the Almighty. I didn’t think it needed a more precise definition to be understood. What about, “the one who is and who was and who to come”? Does that need to be defined? I guess we could talk about a precise definition but I don’t think that will change my point. The Alpha/Omega is self-described as “the Almighty (1:8) AND the First/Last (22:13). The First/Last is self-described as the one who was dead and is alive forever more (1:18). Again, there are either 2 people who are the first and last OR Jesus is the Almighty.

Conclusion: Scripture declares YHWH is the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God/YHWH. Christ is YHWH.

hope this helps !!!

 

[amazing grace]

This is just another uni diversion. The true identity of the One who is the First and the Last.

Rev 22:13, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”

We can see here that Whoever is the Alpha/Omega also claims to be the first/last AND the beginning/end. It’s the same Person.

If we look back in Rev 1:17-18 we see the following:

“…Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”

So, the One Who is first/last (and then is also Alpha/Omega and beginning/end) is the same Person who was dead and is alive forever more. It doesn’t take a scholar to figure out Who is the One speaking here. It does take a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away something so obvious.

The term "first/last" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice it is used along with "Alpha/Omega" with the Person claiming to be "first/last" AND the "Alpha/Omega."

"Alpha/Omega" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice with "first/last" and twice with "beginning/end."

"Beginning/end" occurs 3 times: twice with "Alpha/Omega" and once with "Alpha/Omega" AND "first/last."

In all of these texts, the speaker always refers to Himself with both or all of the titles. To say, "Well, this time it's Jehovah who is the first/last, this next time it's Jesus, then later it's Jehovah again..." is the mental gymnastics to which I referred.

Is God the first/last or is Jesus the first/last? Is God the Alpha/Omega or is Jesus the Alpha/Omega? Is God the beginning/end or is Jesus the beginning/end. An obvious way to reconcile the verses is to understand that Jesus is God.

According to unitarians, it seems God claimed to be the first/last in one sense while Jesus claimed to be first/last in another sense. You seem to gloss over the blatant connection of first/last with beginning/end and Alpha/Omega. In each verse, the Speaker who claims one title also claims one or both of the others. It's all the same person.

I really am baffled by their suggestion from other discussion in the past that “first/last” has some meaning here other than the obvious one (a title synonymous with Alpha/Omega). You even say that Alpha/Omega is never used of the Son? Incredible!! We both have said that context is king so I would like to remind other readers of the context of Rev 1:17-18 (beginning in v.10, Young’s Literal):

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'

And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.

And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, `Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.

Do you realize this is one scene? The Speaker identifies Himself in v. 11 as “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.” John turns to see who is speaking and sees “one like to a son of man” (other translations have “the Son of man”). Perhaps John is saying, "I saw someone who looked like Jesus." Then finally, in v. 17-18, the Speaker indeed identifies Himself as the One who is living and became dead and is now alive again forever.

Unitarians: I guess you identify the Alpha and Omega in v. 8 as Jehovah and v. 11 as Jesus? I guess you don’t see the term “the First and the Last” as a title equivalent to “the Alpha and Omega”? If so, you are definitely seeing something in the text that an ordinary reading doesn’t see beacuse of your bias.

It’s a title ascribed to the Almighty. I didn’t think it needed a more precise definition to be understood. What about, “the one who is and who was and who to come”? Does that need to be defined? I guess we could talk about a precise definition but I don’t think that will change my point. The Alpha/Omega is self-described as “the Almighty (1:8) AND the First/Last (22:13). The First/Last is self-described as the one who was dead and is alive forever more (1:18). Again, there are either 2 people who are the first and last OR Jesus is the Almighty.

Conclusion: Scripture declares YHWH is the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God/YHWH. Christ is YHWH.

hope this helps !!!

The phrase 'Alpha and Omega' in Revelation is used 3x - refers twice to the Father at 1:8 and 21:6; and once to Christ at 22:13.
The phrase - 'who is and who was and who is to come' - all refer to the Father 1:4, 1:8 and 4:8.
The phrase - 'the first and the last' - all refer to Christ 1:17, 2:8, and 22:13.
The phrase - 'the beginning and the end' - one to the Father Rev. 21:6 and the other to Christ 22:13.
Yes, the Bible calls God and Christ "Alpha and the Omega" and 'the first and the last'.
Isaiah's 44:6; 41:4; 48:12 --- refer to Yahweh - He is the eternal One, or at least He preexisted all living things.
Calling Jesus Christ 'the first and the last' probably means the same as in Rev. 3:14, which Christ calls himself - 'the Beginning of the creation of God. These terms when referring to Christ designate Jesus as the 'head' or 'chief' of the new creation of God because he is the first one resurrected from the dead.
Both God and Christ calling themselves 'the Alpha and the Omega' and 'the beginning and the end' do not make Christ God, just as calling both God and Christ 'Lord' does not make Christ God.

(Info paraphrased from The Restitution, Biblical Proof Jesus is NOT God; Kermit Zarley, p 478)

 

[Runningman]

Human reasoning.

Luke 1:34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy— the Son of God.
Luke 1:36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Have you forgotten ?

Better focus on what Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews :

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Ouch....

You're quoting the same verses I do. None of this answers my question, though. I get it, it's a tough one. Think it over for a while and let me know what you come up with.

 

[Runningman]

Um did you fail to see

The answer to your question, however, is no, as I know the Father is also lord and master.

This argument goes both ways because you cannot use the same argument I am using if you are not willing to accept it applied consistently in both directions.

when

Jude 4 (NASB 95) — 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jesus is stated to be the ONLY lord and master

Nope, it says "our" only Master and Lord. Who is "our?" It's referring to the church.

Yet we read/know God is lord and we read/know he is master

when the word only is used to declare Jesus as Lord and master

Your argument depended on a meaning of the word only which is clearly contradicted by scripture

Nope again. There are other Lords and masters in the Bible, but FOR US, there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus. Jesus as our Lord is not equal to God. I feel like by engaging this the same way I am you're close to seeing this.

1 Corinthians 8
4So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

 

[Runningman]

Using "only" or "alone" makes no difference.
Saying "the only true God" or "the true God alone" means One True God, no others, a perfectly Monotheistic statement. Thank you for continuing to promote Trinitarian verses and Trinitarian beliefs.

I'm still waiting for you to show me even one verse that explicitly says that God is a single person. Where is that verse?

What workaround is required for the Monotheistic John 17:3 verse?

You, on the other hand, continue to bury your head and deny John 1:1 but it's not going away any time soon.

So, what's your deal with not agreeing the Father is alone the true God if you're kinda agreeing with me after all?

Can you explain how you feel the Father's exclusive deity ruling out all others helps the trinity doctrine?

 

[FreeInChrist]

The phrase 'Alpha and Omega' in Revelation is used 3x - refers twice to the Father at 1:8 and 21:6; and once to Christ at 22:13.
The phrase - 'who is and who was and who is to come' - all refer to the Father 1:4, 1:8 and 4:8.
The phrase - 'the first and the last' - all refer to Christ 1:17, 2:8, and 22:13.
The phrase - 'the beginning and the end' - one to the Father Rev. 21:6 and the other to Christ 22:13.
Yes, the Bible calls God and Christ "Alpha and the Omega" and 'the first and the last'.
Isaiah's 44:6; 41:4; 48:12 --- refer to Yahweh - He is the eternal One, or at least He preexisted all living things.
Calling Jesus Christ 'the first and the last' probably means the same as in Rev. 3:14, which Christ calls himself - 'the Beginning of the creation of God. These terms when referring to Christ designate Jesus as the 'head' or 'chief' of the new creation of God because he is the first one resurrected from the dead.
Both God and Christ calling themselves 'the Alpha and the Omega' and 'the beginning and the end' do not make Christ God, just as calling both God and Christ 'Lord' does not make Christ God.

(Info paraphrased from The Restitution, Biblical Proof Jesus is NOT God; Kermit Zarley, p 478)

You can lead a horse to water...................................................yada,yada

 

[civic]

You can lead a horse to water...................................................yada,yada

you took the words right out of my mouth. its amazing how the words of scripture get so twisted to deny the Deity of Christ. its the unitarian motto- they hang their hat high to deny the Son and rob Him of His glory at the One Lord, Savior, Redeemer, Alpha Omega, Beginning End, First Last, Almighty, True God and Eternal Life, Creator, Eternal and the list goes on and on........

 

[amazing grace]

You can lead a horse to water...................................................yada,yada

Yep, so true!! Some people are humble and willing to listen to truth - others not so much. . . . . Scripture teaches monotheism NOT tritheism

“We must obey God rather than men."

 

[civic]

The phrase 'Alpha and Omega' in Revelation is used 3x - refers twice to the Father at 1:8 and 21:6; and once to Christ at 22:13.
The phrase - 'who is and who was and who is to come' - all refer to the Father 1:4, 1:8 and 4:8.
The phrase - 'the first and the last' - all refer to Christ 1:17, 2:8, and 22:13.
The phrase - 'the beginning and the end' - one to the Father Rev. 21:6 and the other to Christ 22:13.
Yes, the Bible calls God and Christ "Alpha and the Omega" and 'the first and the last'.
Isaiah's 44:6; 41:4; 48:12 --- refer to Yahweh - He is the eternal One, or at least He preexisted all living things.
Calling Jesus Christ 'the first and the last' probably means the same as in Rev. 3:14, which Christ calls himself - 'the Beginning of the creation of God. These terms when referring to Christ designate Jesus as the 'head' or 'chief' of the new creation of God because he is the first one resurrected from the dead.
Both God and Christ calling themselves 'the Alpha and the Omega' and 'the beginning and the end' do not make Christ God, just as calling both God and Christ 'Lord' does not make Christ God.

(Info paraphrased from The Restitution, Biblical Proof Jesus is NOT God; Kermit Zarley, p 478)

pure and utter nonsense as the previous post you quoted of mine destroys your copy/paste article filled with nothing but eisegesis whereas mine demonstrated exegesis, consistency, fits the biblical narrative etc........

 

[civic]

Yep, so true!! Some people are humble and willing to listen to truth - others not so much. . . . . Scripture teaches monotheism NOT tritheism

“We must obey God rather than men."

more twisting what trins believe just like you do with the bible.

Trinitarians like Jews and muslims are monotheists.

another failed argument.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yep, so true!! Some people are humble and willing to listen to truth - others not so much. . . . . Scripture teaches monotheism NOT tritheism

“We must obey God rather than men."

Wrong

The proof is all around you, in the air you breath and the words you read. You simply have been blinded to their understanding.

I have posted the scriptures ad nauseum if not to you then to many others and if you chose not to read them (A very RCC thing to do) that is on you. If you simply do not see it.... look... then search... search neutrally... use Ai. They have no skin in the game.

 

[amazing grace]

Wrong

The proof is all around you, in the air you breath and the words you read. You simply have been blinded to their understanding.

I have posted the scriptures ad nauseum if not to you then to many others and if you chose not to read them (A very RCC thing to do) that is on you. If you simply do not see it.... look... then search... search neutrally... use Ai. They have no skin in the game.

As is the proof all around you - you are simply blind to their understanding.
Yes, scriptures have been posted. They can be understood in a unitarian sense - strict monotheistic reading of scripture from Genesis to Revelation OR they can be understood in a trinitarian sense - a tritheistic reading of scripture from the Gospel of John (as if John would change what the consensus of who God is!) to Revelation.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him AS GOD or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and EXCHANGED THE GLORY OF THE IMMORTAL GOD for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.....they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.​

“We must obey God rather than men."

 

[TomL]

This argument goes both ways because you cannot use the same argument I am using if you are not willing to accept it applied consistently in both directions.

Your argument makes no sense. You eliminate the son because of the word only from being God but you cannot eliminate God as the master or the lord even though the son is called the only master and lord

Nope, it says "our" only Master and Lord. Who is "our?" It's referring to the church.

So God is not the master or lord of the church?

Is that your position?

Nope again. There are other Lords and masters in the Bible, but FOR US, there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus. Jesus as our Lord is not equal to God. I feel like by engaging this the same way I am you're close to seeing this.

Our Only master and lord is Christ

Jude 4 (NASB 95) — 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Not equal?

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Philippians 2:5–7 (NASB 95) — 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

 

[Doug Brents]

As is the proof all around you - you are simply blind to their understanding.
Yes, scriptures have been posted. They can be understood in a unitarian sense - strict monotheistic reading of scripture from Genesis to Revelation OR they can be understood in a trinitarian sense - a tritheistic reading of scripture from the Gospel of John (as if John would change what the consensus of who God is!) to Revelation.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him AS GOD or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and EXCHANGED THE GLORY OF THE IMMORTAL GOD for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.....they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.​

“We must obey God rather than men."

Belief in a triune God is not belief in polytheism or trithism. The three are ONE, so it is still monotheism. It is just understood that the three that make up God are so united in purpose, power, glory, mission, etc. that they are one God.

 

[civic]

Belief in a triune God is not belief in polytheism or trithism. The three are ONE, so it is still monotheism. It is just understood that the three that make up God are so united in purpose, power, glory, mission, etc. that they are one God.

correct the uni's misrepresent trinitarianism in the same way they do the scriptures by twisting the meaning of words.