Thomas... My Lord and my God

[brightfame52]

More scripture validation that Jesus Christ is also God Almighty, Titus 2:13

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2 Pet 3:12

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Zech 14 5

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ as the Great Judge of all mankind, on the Great White Throne, shows He is God in that He will no doubt search the hearts and reigns of everyone, which prerogative belongs only to God

Christ speaking Rev 2 23

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Jer 17 10

I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

1 Kings 8 39

Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men
Ecc 12 14

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Runningman]

No you did not prove that Jesus is only a man. You just pointed to Jesus as a mediator by virtue of his death on the cross to cover the sins of humanity. You may have failed to realize that Moses had not died for the sins of humanity. Your argument utterly fails to achieve the distorted view of Jesus that you seek. Worse. You tried to back off the proof of Jesus as divine that you just had made.

These verses mean Jesus isn't the same party or person as God.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

 

[Runningman]

More scripture validation that Jesus Christ is also God Almighty, Titus 2:13

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

The "great God" and "our savior Jesus" refers to two different persons because the "great God" is not possessive but "our savior Jesus" is possessive. It means that God and Jesus aren't the same person when read naturally in english.

2 Pet 3:12

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Zech 14 5

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

You make the mistake that Jesus is God and assume that Jesus comes as God. That simply isn't the case. Jesus is not omniscient so he doesn't know when he returns in the first place (Matthew 24:36).

Jesus will not return under his own power. Luke 24:51 says that Jesus was "taken" or "carried" up into heaven, which is something Jesus passively received rather than actively did himself. Acts 1:11 says, "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven." Since Jesus was taken from them (not under his own power) then when he "will come back the same way" then he will not do it under his own power again.

To really drive the point home, 1 Thessalonians 4:14 bluntly states that God will bring Jesus back: "God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him."

Be not ignorant and ignore 99% of the Bible to suit your false doctrines. Study the whole thing and you won't want to argue for the losing team anymore.

 

[Runningman]

Christ as the Great Judge of all mankind, on the Great White Throne, shows He is God in that He will no doubt search the hearts and reigns of everyone, which prerogative belongs only to God

Christ speaking Rev 2 23

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Jer 17 10

I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

1 Kings 8 39

Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men
Ecc 12 14

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

This is a half-baked argument at best as it doesn't do anything to help your point. If you would have studied Scripture a bit more, you would understand what it means to search hearts. Your premise is that Jesus searching hearts is a prerogative that belongs only to God. Now you're in hot water because Peter did it too.

How do you propose Peter had supernatural knowledge about the inner motives of the heart of Ananias? I predict you will say that God enlightened Peter. If so, I can agree with that. So God enlightened a human to be able to search the heart of someone else?

Acts 5
3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? 4Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How could you conceive such a deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God!”

 

[brightfame52]

@Runningman

The "great God" and "our savior Jesus" refers to two different persons because the "great God" is not possessive but "our savior Jesus" is possessive. It means that God and Jesus aren't the same person when read naturally in english.

No it doesnt, because there is only one definite article for Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ,

προσδεχόμενοι τὴν μακαρίαν ἐλπίδα καὶ ἐπιφάνειαν τῆς δόξης τοῦ μεγάλου θεοῦ καὶ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ
So He is Both, The Great God and or even our Saviour Jesus Christ. Also on Jesus can appear as to be seen, not the Father,

He remains invisible

This scripture speaks of the appearing of the Great God Titus 2:13

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

 

[brightfame52]

@Runningman

This is a half-baked argument at best as it doesn't do anything to help your point. If you would have studied Scripture a bit more, you would understand what it means to search hearts. Your premise is that Jesus searching hearts is a prerogative that belongs only to God. Now you're in hot water because Peter did it too.

This shows that you dont really care about scripture evidence on the Deity of Christ as God

 

[synergy]

I never said the Logos was God.

I never quoted you as having said that. I quoted you as having said the following: "the message (logos) was God".

In fact, "the Word (Logos) was God" phrase is a direct quote from John 1:1c which I know you despise as much as demons do.

So again you attack by misquoting me. The devil does the same.

So again you attack by accusing me of something I never did. The devil does the same.

Tell us more about your God which you call "The Message (logos)". Do you pray to The Message (logos)? How does your Church worship The Message (logos)? Do you sing praises to The Message (logos)? Does everyone at your church prostrate themselves towards The Message (logos)? Tell us about this God of yours called The Message (logos).

 

[synergy]

These verses mean Jesus isn't the same party or person as God.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

In Jewish monotheism, faith is reserved for God alone (Jer. 17:5–7). If Jesus was not God, Jesus' statement in John 14:1 would be blasphemous.

What's happening is that Jesus is speaking as the Son distinct from the Father, but still as God, as John 1:1 affirms.

This is your new Gaffe #23.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

This is a repeat of your Gaffe #22.

List of Unitarian RunningMan's Gaffes:

1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
8. At no time does Jesus ever has to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".
10. Your ignorance of the Uncreated Word of God, in the OT (1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3), who came to people as a Communicative Person and who has all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...).
11. You ignore the prevailing Greco-Roman paganism at that time when you mistakenly present John 17:3 as being against Trinitarianism. You're also working backwards from John 17:3 to wipe out what John wrote in John 1:1.
12. Your attempt to rewrite John 1:1c from "the Word was God" to "the Word was godly" was denied.
13. You forget that God said "Let us make man in our Image". That proves that there are multiple Creator Persons.
14. You are denigrating God's Shekinah Light (το φως το αληθινον) that radiated out of the OT Tabernacle and out of Jesus at his Transfiguration. Just as God tabernacled and radiated his Shekinah in the OT, the Word now tabernacles and radiates his Shekinah Light as Jesus.
15. Your deliberate ignorance of the Greek word ὅραμα which means “something seen” or “spectacle.” and cancels the heretical idea that the Transfiguration event was imaginary or unreal.
16. Your denial of the Glory of God being Jesus' intrinsic Glory (John 1:14), proving once again that the Word was God.
17. Your refusal to understand how the Greek word ἐρχόμενον (coming) (in John 1:9) aligns perfectly with Jesus' Kenosis.
18. You don't believe Jesus when he declared that he can resurrect himself. In fact, Jesus has full.authority over life and death by being "The Resurrection and The Life" (John 11:25).
19. Unitarians will be the ones in heaven refusing to offer worship towards the Father's Throne because of Jesus' presence on that Throne.
20. You are ignorant of the fact that belief that Jesus is Lord (translated from Yahweh in the LXX) is required for our salvation.
21. You are ignorant of the fact that there are Bible version that do capitalized the Word in the Bible.
22. You conflate both old and new covenants and you have no appreciation of why Jesus is the one and only Mediator between God and men. Hint: John 1:1c and the rest of the Bible.
23. If Jesus was not God, as you claim, Jesus' statement in John 14:1 would be blasphemous according to Jer. 17:5–7.

 

[civic]

People always identified God as God when they talked about God. After Jesus died and God decided to resurrect him, not one called Jesus God. They kept on calling him a man who has a God who resurrected him. Jesus is a normal human, fundamentally, but glorified and empowered.

You really believe that ?

Titus 2:13
2 Peter 1:1
John 20:28

There are 3 and there are plenty more in Revelation.

 

[Peterlag]

I never quoted you as having said that. I quoted you as having said the following: "the message (logos) was God".

In fact, "the Word (Logos) was God" phrase is a direct quote from John 1:1c which I know you despise as much as demons do.

So again you attack by accusing me of something I never did. The devil does the same.

Tell us more about your God which you call "The Message (logos)". Do you pray to The Message (logos)? How does your Church worship The Message (logos)? Do you sing praises to The Message (logos)? Does everyone at your church prostrate themselves towards The Message (logos)? Tell us about this God of yours called The Message (logos).

What I said...
The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word ofGod."

What you said I said...
the message (logos) was God".

 

[synergy]

What I said...
The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word ofGod."

What you said I said...
the message (logos) was God".

What you said:

The message (logos) was God and that message was in writing and that message was with Jesus. Messages do not become living creatures. This should have been taught in second grade.

What I said you said: "the message (logos) was God". Therefore, what you said and what I said you said perfectly match.

So tell us more about your God which you call "The Message (logos)". Do you pray to The Message (logos)? How does your Church worship The Message (logos)? Do you sing praises to The Message (logos)? Does everyone at your church prostrate themselves towards The Message (logos)? Tell us about this God of yours called The Message (logos).


'

 

[Peterlag]

What you said:

What I said you said: "the message (logos) was God". Therefore, what you said and what I said you said perfectly match.

So tell us more about your God which you call "The Message (logos)". Do you pray to The Message (logos)? How does your Church worship The Message (logos)? Do you sing praises to The Message (logos)? Does everyone at your church prostrate themselves towards The Message (logos)? Tell us about this God of yours called The Message (logos).


'

It means the message of God is as much Him as my words and message are me. I am not saying my words are a living creature and another of me.

 

[mikesw]

It means the message of God is as much Him as my words and message are me. I am not saying my words are a living creature and another of me.

I guess your words become flesh and walk among people separate from you. That is what the Word of God did before he died on the cross. It is nigh impossible to figure how you isolate John 1:1 from the first 18 verses, the last of those saying Jesus is God.