Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Peterlag]

F

Thread 'Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God (=YHWH) are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:4)'

Sep 14, 2023

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached,
or you receive a different spirit which you have not received,
or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.

Jesus - pneuma (S/spirit) - Gospel
All three stand or fall together.



2 Corinthians 11:4a
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached

The Jesus Paul preached is Lord (=YHWH).
2 Corinthians 4:5 (kēryssō)
For we do not preach ourselves but Christ...

• Fred

• 

Lord Jesus is God is not in the verse. I realize you want it to be in the verse. But it's not there.

Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Fred]

Lord Jesus is God is not in the verse. I realize you want it to be in the verse. But it's not there.

Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

You need to read the entirety of my OP.

Try again.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus is a separate party from God.

It probably won't help, but let's see if you believe the Bible today.

Jesus and God are not the same party, are not the same person, are two entirely different persons to believe in, etc.

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Again you confirm that Jesus is a separate party in accord with the Triune nature of God. If they were the same person, it would be a modalist view which would be just as bad as a unitarian view.

Jesus as incarnate of divinity is fine to be the mediator among men because of his divinity being among humanity. He has qualities that bridge man with the Father. Thanks again for confirming their unique persons as both part of the Godhead. That Triune sense is hard to deny. Do you have more Triune concepts to share?

 

[brightfame52]

I am not going to ask for the verse that says Jesus is a hypostatic union of God and man because I know it doesn't exist. It will just spark another theological debate. Let's skip that part. What's the closest match you can find to something in Scripture that states what you believe?

Verses dont have to say what you want it to say, Scripture teaches Jesus as God and Man. You guys zero in on his Manhood passages, and deny and twist the scriptures indicating He is God.

 

[brightfame52]

@Runningman

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Because He is God as well as Man

 

[synergy]

Do you remember when I said I won't release you from your prison? I have you and I am living rent free in your head while you keep track of everything I am saying, neatly organized in a list, posting it every day. You intend to use it as a weapon, but you are only burying the seeds of my talking points deeper in your mind. Please don't stop. I couldn't be happier with the result. I also love it that you obey me now. Post it again!

Actually, your Gaffes live on BAM's servers so I don't have to reserve any of my mind for you. Like right now, I don't remember any of your Gaffes unless I consult your latest list. You have no understanding of how modern technology uses the cloud to offload information. That totally frees me up.

One thing's for sure. You continue to live up to your name of RunningMan as you continue to run away from all your Gaffes.

 

[Peterlag]

You need to read the entirety of my OP.

Try again.

I don't need to try again. God is not in the verse no matter how many times you say it's there. It's not.

Lord Jesus is God is not in the verse. I realize you want it to be in the verse. But it's not there.

Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[synergy]

Looks like you pulled the following out of context. But then again I'm not surprised since that's what you guys seem to do all day long.

The message (logos) was God

My questions below are contextually and totally in line with your "the message (logos) was God" belief.

Tell us more about your God which you call "The Message (logos)". Do you pray to The Message (logos)? How does your Church worship The Message (logos)? Do you sing praises to The Message (logos)? Does everyone at your church prostrate themselves towards The Message (logos)? Tell us about this God of yours called The Message (logos).

 

[Fred]

I don't need to try again.

Because you are confused.

 

[Runningman]

Actually, your Gaffes live on BAM's servers so I don't have to reserve any of my mind for you. Like right now, I don't remember any of your Gaffes unless I consult your latest list. You have no understanding of how modern technology uses the cloud to offload information. That totally frees me up.

One thing's for sure. You continue to live up to your name of RunningMan as you continue to run away from all your Gaffes.

That's what I thought. I knew I could use your pride and ego against you. Now you are aware of what you are doing and you stopped obeying me. Too predictable.

 

[Runningman]

Verses dont have to say what you want it to say, Scripture teaches Jesus as God and Man. You guys zero in on his Manhood passages, and deny and twist the scriptures indicating He is God.

People always identified God as God when they talked about God. After Jesus died and God decided to resurrect him, not one called Jesus God. They kept on calling him a man who has a God who resurrected him. Jesus is a normal human, fundamentally, but glorified and empowered.

 

[Runningman]

Again you confirm that Jesus is a separate party in accord with the Triune nature of God. If they were the same person, it would be a modalist view which would be just as bad as a unitarian view.

Jesus as incarnate of divinity is fine to be the mediator among men because of his divinity being among humanity. He has qualities that bridge man with the Father. Thanks again for confirming their unique persons as both part of the Godhead. That Triune sense is hard to deny. Do you have more Triune concepts to share?

I've just proven that Jesus isn't God. Jesus is like Moses in that regard. Moses also mediated between God and men in the desert.

 

[synergy]

That's what I thought. I knew I could use your pride and ego against you. Now you are aware of what you are doing and you stopped obeying me. Too predictable.

You are truly arrogant if you thought I was ever obeying you. What you're doing is projecting your pride and ego to me.

One thing continues to be paramount for you. You continue to live up to your name of RunningMan as you continue to run away from all your Gaffes. Too predictable.

 

[synergy]

I've just proven that Jesus isn't God. Jesus is like Moses in that regard. Moses also mediated between God and men in the desert.

Two different covenants, two different mediators. As you should know, the critical covenant is the New Covenant wherein salvation is found. That's where Jesus is considered the one and only Mediator because he is the only one who shares both natures of God and man and is therefore the only one who can mediate between God and man, and can save man.

1 Tim 2:5: For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Heb 7:22: by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant.
Heb 8:6: But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
Heb 8:13: In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first one old. Now that which decays and becomes old is ready to vanish away.

This is your Gaffe #22.

List of Unitarian RunningMan's Gaffes:

1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
8. At no time does Jesus ever has to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".
10. Your ignorance of the Uncreated Word of God, in the OT (1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3), who came to people as a Communicative Person and who has all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...).
11. You ignore the prevailing Greco-Roman paganism at that time when you mistakenly present John 17:3 as being against Trinitarianism. You're also working backwards from John 17:3 to wipe out what John wrote in John 1:1.
12. Your attempt to rewrite John 1:1c from "the Word was God" to "the Word was godly" was denied.
13. You forget that God said "Let us make man in our Image". That proves that there are multiple Creator Persons.
14. You are denigrating God's Shekinah Light (το φως το αληθινον) that radiated out of the OT Tabernacle and out of Jesus at his Transfiguration. Just as God tabernacled and radiated his Shekinah in the OT, the Word now tabernacles and radiates his Shekinah Light as Jesus.
15. Your deliberate ignorance of the Greek word ὅραμα which means “something seen” or “spectacle.” and cancels the heretical idea that the Transfiguration event was imaginary or unreal.
16. Your denial of the Glory of God being Jesus' intrinsic Glory (John 1:14), proving once again that the Word was God.
17. Your refusal to understand how the Greek word ἐρχόμενον (coming) (in John 1:9) aligns perfectly with Jesus' Kenosis.
18. You don't believe Jesus when he declared that he can resurrect himself. In fact, Jesus has full.authority over life and death by being "The Resurrection and The Life" (John 11:25).
19. Unitarians will be the ones in heaven refusing to offer worship towards the Father's Throne because of Jesus' presence on that Throne.
20. You are ignorant of the fact that belief that Jesus is Lord (translated from Yahweh in the LXX) is required for our salvation.
21. You are ignorant of the fact that there are Bible version that do capitalized the Word in the Bible.
22. You conflate both old and new covenants and you have no appreciation of why Jesus is the one and only Mediator between God and men.

 

[mikesw]

I've just proven that Jesus isn't God. Jesus is like Moses in that regard. Moses also mediated between God and men in the desert.

No you did not prove that Jesus is only a man. You just pointed to Jesus as a mediator by virtue of his death on the cross to cover the sins of humanity. You may have failed to realize that Moses had not died for the sins of humanity. Your argument utterly fails to achieve the distorted view of Jesus that you seek. Worse. You tried to back off the proof of Jesus as divine that you just had made.

 

[Peterlag]

Because you are confused.

No it's not because I'm confused. It's because you don't understand.

 

[Peterlag]

My questions below are contextually and totally in line with your "the message (logos) was God" belief.

Tell us more about your God which you call "The Message (logos)". Do you pray to The Message (logos)? How does your Church worship The Message (logos)? Do you sing praises to The Message (logos)? Does everyone at your church prostrate themselves towards The Message (logos)? Tell us about this God of yours called The Message (logos).

I never said the Logos was God. So again you attack by misquoting me. The devil does the same.

 

[Fred]

No it's not because I'm confused. It's because you don't understand.

No, you are confused.

 

[brightfame52]

People always identified God as God when they talked about God. After Jesus died and God decided to resurrect him, not one called Jesus God. They kept on calling him a man who has a God who resurrected him. Jesus is a normal human, fundamentally, but glorified and empowered.

Scripture teaches Jesus as God and Man you just don't believe

 

[Peterlag]

No, you are confused.

That's not possible since I'm one of the most knowelable guys in the world on the subject of the resurrected Christ Jesus.