Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Runningman]

You have to pretend this is saying "do not call Me good." As a question this allows the divinity of God being the answer why this man can call Jesus good. Again, nuance escapes the unitarian like air escapes a popped balloon. I try to help you get beyond this weakness of your interpretations.

Step 1: Believing in God isn't the same thing as believing in Jesus:

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Step 2: None is good except God alone.

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

Conclsuion:

Jesus isn't God and denied being God. It's super easy to understand that Jesus is a man whom God empowered as Acts aggressively states.

 

[Runningman]

John 1:1 destroys the unitarian heresy that only the Father is truly God. Deal with it. Until then ... toodles. ....

John 1:1 proves that Word is not The God. Checkmate.

Keep those Unitarian verses coming.

 

[Runningman]

Mark 10:17-18 (NKJV) 17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” 18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is,] God.

Jesus is reminding this person that when you see the Son, you have seen the Father.

John 14:9-11 (NKJV) 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority;] but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 “Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

s e l a h

Step 1: Believing in God isn't the same thing as believing in Jesus:

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Step 2: None is good except God alone.

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

Conclsuion:

Jesus isn't God and denied being God. It's super easy to understand that Jesus is a man whom God empowered as Acts aggressively states.

 

[Runningman]

Wrong the Father is invisible and no man has seen the Father.

I will believe Jesus teaching while you deny His teachings

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father

Next fallacy

It’s the Father who is invisible

Next fallacy

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father

God is invisible and Jesus is not invisible. No one has seen God, many saw Jesus. Houston, you have a problem.

The Only God is invisible:

1 Timothy 1
17Now to the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Jesus is not invisible:

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

No one has ever seen God:

John 1
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Many saw Jesus:

1 Corinthians 15
5and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

 

[synergy]

John 1:1 proves that Word is not The God. Checkmate.

Keep those Unitarian verses coming.

This is a repeat of your Gaffe #1.This is just too easy.

List of Unitarian RunningMan's Gaffes:

1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
8. At no time does Jesus ever has to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".
10. Your ignorance of the Word of God in the OT (1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3).
11. You ignore the prevailing Greco-Roman paganism at that time when you mistakenly present John 17:3 as being against Trinitarianism. You're also working backwards from John 17:3 to wipe out what John wrote in John 1:1.
12. Your attempt to rewrite John 1:1c from "the Word was God" to "the Word was godly" was denied.
13. You forget that God said "Let us make man in our Image". That proves that there are multiple Creator Persons.
14. You are denigrating God's Shekinah Light (το φως το αληθινον) that radiated out of the OT Tabernacle and out of Jesus at his Transfiguration. Just as God tabernacled and radiated his Shekinah in the OT, the Word now tabernacles and radiates his Shekinah Light as Jesus.
15. Your deliberate ignorance of the Greek word ὅραμα which means “something seen” or “spectacle.” and cancels the heretical idea that the Transfiguration event was imaginary or unreal.
16. Your denial of the Glory of God being Jesus' intrinsic Glory (John 1:14), proving once again that the Word was God.
17. Your refusal to understand how the Greek word ἐρχόμενον (coming) (in John 1:9) aligns perfectly with Jesus' Kenosis.

 

[mikesw]

Step 1: Believing in God isn't the same thing as believing in Jesus:

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Maybe you could realize that is Jesus said "believe I am God" that he would have had to continually dodge stones. I do not think you can understand such details though. Christ's nature goes beyond what unitarians can comprehend.

Step 2: None is good except God alone.

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

Conclsuion:

Jesus isn't God and denied being God. It's super easy to understand that Jesus is a man whom God empowered as Acts aggressively states.

Maybe you can do something convincing instead of thinking that repetition makes the argument better. You just cannot get the nuance of scripture.

 

[mikesw]

God is invisible and Jesus is not invisible. No one has seen God, many saw Jesus. Houston, you have a problem.

The Only God is invisible:

1 Timothy 1
17Now to the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Jesus is not invisible:

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

No one has ever seen God:

John 1
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Many saw Jesus:

1 Corinthians 15
5and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

Wow. You can repeat points without dealing with the nuances showing Jesus is God and therefore is what is seen of God through a human body. Maybe if you repeat things ten thousand more times, the argument will mystically change.

 

[Runningman]

Maybe you could realize that is Jesus said "believe I am God" that he would have had to continually dodge stones. I do not think you can understand such details though. Christ's nature goes beyond what unitarians can comprehend.


Maybe you can do something convincing instead of thinking that repetition makes the argument better. You just cannot get the nuance of scripture.

Wow. You can repeat points without dealing with the nuances showing Jesus is God and therefore is what is seen of God through a human body. Maybe if you repeat things ten thousand more times, the argument will mystically change.

"Believe in God; believe in me as well..." means belief in God and Jesus aren't the same things. This is getting too predictable. I think 100% of the things I have shown you the Bible says you have defaulted to arguing with. Is Amen in your vocabularly? Anyway, let's keep going. I am going to see if you disagree with the entire Bible sooner or later.

 

[mikesw]

"Believe in God; believe in me as well..." means belief in God and Jesus aren't the same things. This is getting too predictable. I think 100% of the things I have shown you the Bible says you have defaulted to arguing with. Is Amen in your vocabularly? Anyway, let's keep going. I am going to see if you disagree with the entire Bible sooner or later.

you have failed to address Jesus identified as God in John 1:18
You failed to address the issue of the Two Power in Heaven as debated among Jews
You failed to recognize John 1 as an apologetic explanation of Philo's use of logos
You failed to reasonably explain away the pre-existence verses
You failed to explain away the claim of Jesus as divinity via Dan 7:13-14 and observed as blasphemy by the High Priest

Skipping explanation of that means you are left as the one-verse unitarian with the hyperliteralist interpretation based on minimal verses. I may have to keep this list going until you address those successfully.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus. Which is why you are not a Christian. Jesus never taught that God is a trinity, never taught to pray to a trinity, never taught to worship a trinity, etc.

You're right, He never once used the word trinity. He taught us to worship God. And then He told us that He is God, One with the Father, and equal with the Father and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit).

Jesus taught the true worshippers worship the Father in John 5:23,24.

Jesus taught that true worshipers worship God (not just the Father), and since Jesus is God, He can/should be worshiped too.
Thomas worshiped Jesus (John 20:28), and was not reprimanded by Jesus.
The Apostles and the women worshiped Jesus (Matt 28:9 & 17).
All Heaven worships Jesus (Heb 1).

You aren't a true worshipper.

Libel won't get you anywhere.

Jesus taught to pray to the Father in Matt 6:6,9. You also don't do that because you pray to a trinity.

You don't know who I pray to; it has never come up between us.
I pray to the Father THROUGH Jesus, as we are commanded to do (Eph 2:18, John 14:13).

 

[Runningman]

you have failed to address Jesus identified as God in John 1:18
You failed to address the issue of the Two Power in Heaven as debated among Jews
You failed to recognize John 1 as an apologetic explanation of Philo's use of logos
You failed to reasonably explain away the pre-existence verses
You failed to explain away the claim of Jesus as divinity via Dan 7:13-14 and observed as blasphemy by the High Priest

Skipping explanation of that means you are left as the one-verse unitarian with the hyperliteralist interpretation based on minimal verses. I may have to keep this list going until you address those successfully.

John 1 isn't the belly button around which the entire Bible revolves around. The Bible is consistent and the verses are all related to each other in their own way. The Bible is more like an interwoven tapestry becasue it is all connected and it all depends on each other. As far as mentioning Daniel 7, that's a genuine headscratcher to me why you would willingly return to that when I defeated your point about it already. The son of man isn't the Ancient of Days. The son of man received authority from the Ancient of Days. The son of man and the other saints have sovereignty over the kingdom forever while they serve the Most High. Read Daniel 7 again.

I think I understand the way Trinitarianism works now. It's a game of whack-a-mole. When you knock down one mole, another mole pops up elsewhere. Just when you think you finally put down all of the moles, they all pop up again at the same time. I know I can defeat you in any debate, but you will rebound again because you have a strong spirit. I have seen people go toe-to-toe with me for years who started off kind and friendly, only to become bitter old men hardened by endless day-to-day debate about things they can't win. You were a friendly man at the beginning, Mike, don't let your inability to defend the trinity rob you of that, no matter what.

 

[Runningman]

You're right, He never once used the word trinity. He taught us to worship God. And then He told us that He is God, One with the Father, and equal with the Father and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit).

Jesus taught that true worshipers worship God (not just the Father), and since Jesus is God, He can/should be worshiped too.
Thomas worshiped Jesus (John 20:28), and was not reprimanded by Jesus.
The Apostles and the women worshiped Jesus (Matt 28:9 & 17).
All Heaven worships Jesus (Heb 1).

Libel won't get you anywhere.

You don't know who I pray to; it has never come up between us.
I pray to the Father THROUGH Jesus, as we are commanded to do (Eph 2:18, John 14:13).

He never even described the trinity. He never said he is God. He never said to worship him and he never said to pray to him.

Who did Jesus say is God? The Father in John 17:1-3
Who did Jesus say to pray to? The Father in Matthew 6:6,9
Who did Jesus say the true worshippers worship? The Father in John 4:23,24

The only God in the Bible is the Father. Keep studying and believe it, you'll get there.

 

[mikesw]

John 1 isn't the belly button around which the entire Bible revolves around. The Bible is consistent and the verses are all related to each other in their own way. The Bible is more like an interwoven tapestry becasue it is all connected and it all depends on each other. As far as mentioning Daniel 7, that's a genuine headscratcher to me why you would willingly return to that when I defeated your point about it already. The son of man isn't the Ancient of Days. The son of man received authority from the Ancient of Days. The son of man and the other saints have sovereignty over the kingdom forever while they serve the Most High. Read Daniel 7 again.

I think I understand the way Trinitarianism works now. It's a game of whack-a-mole. When you knock down one mole, another mole pops up elsewhere. Just when you think you finally put down all of the moles, they all pop up again at the same time. I know I can defeat you in any debate, but you will rebound again because you have a strong spirit. I have seen people go toe-to-toe with me for years who started off kind and friendly, only to become bitter old men hardened by endless day-to-day debate about things they can't win. You were a friendly man at the beginning, Mike, don't let your inability to defend the trinity rob you of that, no matter what.

So scripture is a whack-a-mole game to you.
You have not won any "victory" until you have arguments that do not cover the scriptures. You are the one-verse unitarian. You have not even dealt with the harder passages that create the ambiguity of Jesus as God.
So far you have shown the Father is God and Jesus comes as a man among humanity. Those are not in dispute with the Triune nature of God. The part you need to address are along what I shared-- and you have to address those with analysis that is sensible, not just a wild guess.
That is all I need to share to reveal your failure. And sorry if I am not so lenient with people sharing heresy.