Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Runningman]

I've tried to explain this to you before. You, as a son yourself, see things differently based upon your experience.

YOU believe that having a "head" creates a subservient relationship. Even then, you're independent now.... right?

Please confirm that you don't believe your father is "head" of you.

I am interested in this comment and not ready to release you from it yet. You have just revealed you understand that Jesus is independent of God rather than God Himself. Do you see where you made that point?

 

[Runningman]

So you've chosen to remain ignorant of the Greek word "ἐσκήνωσεν" which unlocks what John 1:14 is all about. This is so typical of heretics.

Every verse you've mentioned across the entire Bible does not prove unitarianism in any way once you remove your ignorance of languages, grammar, history, and context. Choose any verse across the entire Bible and I will show you how your view is a result of your ignorance of languages, grammar, history, and/or context.

List of RM's Gaffes:

1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
8. At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".

We're really close to reaching double digits.

John 1:1 proves Unitarianism. You high-tailed it out of there when you first brought this topic up. Did you see the part where John 1:1 doesn't define the Word as The God? Means the Word is not God in the same sense God Almighty is. You have a category error.

Next, you made a point several comments back where you said the Word has the qualities of God. I briefly attempted to show you how God is not a quality or condition, but rather is a person (a word used for convenience) who has qualities.

Since then, you have only created a strawman with your repeated pasting of the same things in every reply.

As much as you would like to burry you having been refuted, it is not going to go away easily until I decide you've had enough.

You also did not even validate the fact that every translation of 1 John 1:1-3 calls the Word a thing that was revealed by Jesus, not who or what Jesus is.

Also, what are your credentials for knowing Greek?

P.S. I know how to copy any paste, too, and my paste button works faster than yours.

 

[Peterlag]

Image if you will that you are going to kill God. Just stop your mind for a few seconds and honestly think about that. Does it cross your mind that you just might be picking a fight with someone that is bigger than what you could handle? You were dead if you walked in the wrong room in the Temple or if you accidentally bumped into the Ark of the Covenant. The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God.

Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.

 

[synergy]

John 1:1 proves Unitarianism. You high-tailed it out of there when you first brought this topic up. Did you see the part where John 1:1 doesn't define the Word as The God? Means the Word is not God in the same sense God Almighty is. You have a category error.

You're repeating your Gaffe #1 in your List of Gaffes. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).

Next, you made a point several comments back where you said the Word has the qualities of God. I briefly attempted to show you how God is not a quality or condition, but rather is a person (a word used for convenience) who has qualities.

If you really believe that God is a Person and since "the Word was God" then that makes the Word a Person also. Thanks for that validation.

Since then, you have only created a strawman with your repeated pasting of the same things in every reply.

As much as you would like to burry you having been refuted, it is not going to go away easily until I decide you've had enough.

Bury me? I challenged you in the following way and instead you just ran away as fast as you possibly could, being true to your name as RunningMan:

Choose any verse across the entire Bible and I will show you how your view is a result of your ignorance of languages, grammar, history, and/or context.

You also did not even validate the fact that every translation of 1 John 1:1-3 calls the Word a thing that was revealed by Jesus, not who or what Jesus is.

You're repeating your Gaffe #6 in your List of Gaffes. John used a Greek-styled neuter pronoun in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?

Also, what are your credentials for knowing Greek?

P.S. I know how to copy any paste, too, and my paste button works faster than yours.

It's because of your poor memory that I have to carry your List of Gaffes forward. Twice I had to refer to the List in this one Post.

List of RM's Gaffes:

1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
8. At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".

 

[Peterlag]

God cannot Sin
God cannot Lie
God cannot Die
We are talking about the Jews killing Jesus. Would they try it if they thought they were picking a fight with God?

 

[mikesw]

You've been spinning your wheels and getting nowhere for weeks. Show the scripture that says God is three persons in one God or something like that or move on and let people who can actually show who God is in the Bible have some space to do so.

Indeed I have been spinning my wheels since I'm showing the nonsense of the interpretations you give but those are all very distorted. Then you use passages to diminish who Christ is and show much disrespect in that way.

 

[mikesw]

Your argument is once again "The Bible doesn't say what the Bible says."

I see your confusion. You cannot even understand arguments against your bad interpretations. You should have worded that point as the bible not saying what you imagine is in-between the verses of the Bible.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am interested in this comment and not ready to release you from it yet. You have just revealed you understand that Jesus is independent of God rather than God Himself. Do you see where you made that point?

I asked you about your will. You are always measuring Jesus Christ by yourself. I want to know what you think about you.
I already know Jesus Christ. I've spent many years knowing Him.
Tell me you're not comparing Jesus Christ to you, show me that your not, and I'll leave it alone.

Again. Do you have a independent will?

 

[praise_yeshua]

God cannot Sin
God cannot Lie
God cannot Die
We are talking about the Jews killing Jesus. Would they try it if they thought they were picking a fight with God?

You can sin. You can lie. You will die.
Jesus Christ isn't like you at all. That makes Him different. You want to drag Him down to your level. All you misguided unitarian want desperately to tarnish the goodness of Jesus Christ.

Are you from below are from above?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Image if you will that you are going to kill God. Just stop your mind for a few seconds and honestly think about that. Does it cross your mind that you just might be picking a fight with someone that is bigger than what you could handle? You were dead if you walked in the wrong room in the Temple or if you accidentally bumped into the Ark of the Covenant. The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God.

Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.

YOU are right there with them in what you desire of Jesus Christ. You would have called for His death. You are no different than them.

There were two teachings of Messiah that survived till the time of Jesus Christ.

You know nothing of Judiasm from the time.

 

[Peterlag]

You can sin. You can lie. You will die.
Jesus Christ isn't like you at all. That makes Him different. You want to drag Him down to your level. All you misguided unitarian want desperately to tarnish the goodness of Jesus Christ.

Are you from below are from above?

Jesus could sin. God cannot. Jesus could lie. God cannot. Jesus could die. God cannot.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus could sin. God cannot. Jesus could lie. God cannot. Jesus could die. God cannot.

See. You hate Jesus Christ.

Jesus didn't sin. You do. Jesus never lied. You've done nothing but lie the entire time you've been here.

I know who is better. Jesus is and you hate the fact that He is. You're a very poor poor man.

 

[Peterlag]

See. You hate Jesus Christ.

Jesus didn't sin. You do. Jesus never lied. You've done nothing but lie the entire time you've been here.

I know who is better. Jesus is and you hate the fact that He is. You're a very poor poor man.

 

[praise_yeshua]

View attachment 2221

Look. A hypocrite. You're insulting Jesus Christ. You don't love Jesus. You prove it with every lie you tell about Him.

Is Jesus better than you? If He is, then stop comparing Him to yourself.

Are you from below or above?

 

[Runningman]

Indeed I have been spinning my wheels since I'm showing the nonsense of the interpretations you give but those are all very distorted. Then you use passages to diminish who Christ is and show much disrespect in that way.

You have it backwards though. You should adhere to some established rules before haphazardly attempting to represent what the Bible says. I'll also ping @synergy

Let's see if you can find a way to agree with this:

1. Do not add to or take away from Scripture
2. Let the Bible interpret itself

Let's practice. Does the Bible say anywhere outside of John 1:1 that the Word was God with God in the beginning?

 

[Runningman]

I see your confusion. You cannot even understand arguments against your bad interpretations. You should have worded that point as the bible not saying what you imagine is in-between the verses of the Bible.

Why do you write dispargagingly about what the Bible literally says though? The Bible says the Father is the one and only true God yet it is your thesis to argue against that. Hence, it looks like your argument is the Bible doesn't say what it says.

 

[Runningman]

I asked you about your will. You are always measuring Jesus Christ by yourself. I want to know what you think about you.
I already know Jesus Christ. I've spent many years knowing Him.
Tell me you're not comparing Jesus Christ to you, show me that your not, and I'll leave it alone.

Again. Do you have a independent will?

I already said I have a free will just like Jesus does. Wait, you don't believe Jesus is the kind of person we should be like?

 

[Runningman]

You're repeating your Gaffe #1 in your List of Gaffes. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).

If I started posting your gaffes there would be need to open a thread dedicated to it and fill it up every day. I don't see the need to be so petty.

If you really believe that God is a Person and since "the Word was God" then that makes the Word a Person also. Thanks for that validation

Bury me? I challenged you in the following way and instead you just ran away as fast as you possibly could, being true to your name as RunningMan:



You're repeating your Gaffe #6 in your List of Gaffes. John used a Greek-styled neuter pronoun in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?


It's because of your poor memory that I have to carry your List of Gaffes forward. Twice I had to refer to the List in this one Post.

List of RM's Gaffes:

1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
8. At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".

You were doing better when you were stonewalling me about my "gaffes" as you say.

The Word is never described as a person in the Bible.

The Word is never said to be a being of self-awareness in the Bible, have its own mind, will, intellect, and emotions. The Word never said anything in the Bible or did anything. It never expressed anger, laughed, had compassion, loved, hated, taught, reproved or lead anyone. The word is something that is revealed but not actually God Hismelf.

The Father on the other hand is a person and so is Jesus. The Word being God doesn't have any Biblical support.

I think where you really run out of steam is you can't go anywhere outside of John 1:1. After John 1, you have exhausted everything you have about the Word. That probably explains why you keep attempting to gaslight the conversation with ad hominems about my "gaffes." You really don't have much else to say.

 

[synergy]

If I started posting your gaffes there would be need to open a thread dedicated to it and fill it up every day. I don't see the need to be so petty.

It's because of your poor memory that I have to carry forward your List of Gaffes. Twice I had to refer to your Gaffe List in my previous Post and once again on this Post.

Address them properly and then we can knock them off one by one. Until then, they will continue to convict you ad infinitum.

You were doing better when you were stonewalling me about my "gaffes" as you say.

The Word is never described as a person in the Bible.

The Word is never said to be a being of self-awareness in the Bible, have its own mind, will, intellect, and emotions. The Word never said anything in the Bible or did anything. It never expressed anger, laughed, had compassion, loved, hated, taught, reproved or lead anyone.

You need to crack open your OT.

1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3 clearly show that the Pre-Incarnate Word of God was a Communicative Person who had all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...).

• 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
• 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,

This obviously proves that the Word of God, through Whom everything was created and is Uncreated (John 1:3), cannot possibly be just a Personification, a figure or a thought. He is God.

The word is something that is revealed but not actually God Hismelf.

The Father on the other hand is a person and so is Jesus. The Word being God doesn't have any Biblical support.

You are repeating Gaffe #7 of your List of Gaffes.
.

I think where you really run out of steam is you can't go anywhere outside of John 1:1. After John 1, you have exhausted everything you have about the Word. That probably explains why you keep attempting to gaslight the conversation with ad hominems about my "gaffes." You really don't have much else to say.

You're desperately trying to get away from John 1:1 I see. Sorry, that your unitarian mission sputters and utterly explodes at the very first sentence of John.

Listen, I did open up the discussion to any verse in the Bible and instead you shied away from that challenge since you're so shell shocked. Here is my challenge again:

Choose any verse across the entire Bible and I will show you how your view is a result of your ignorance of languages, grammar, history, and/or context.

Again, it's because of your poor memory that I have to carry your List of Gaffes forward. Twice I had to refer to the List in my previous Post and once on this Post.

Until you address your List of Gaffes properly, they will continue to convict you ad infinitum.

List of RM's Gaffes:

1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
8. At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".
10. Your ignorance of the Word of God in the OT (1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3).

You managed to reach double digits with your latest Gaffe concerning the Word of God in the OT.