Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Peterlag]

The Book of Hebrews does teach Jesus is the "Lord" in Hebrews 1:10.
You can stop dodging this fact now.

I cannot find one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. I don't see it in Hebrews either. Look for yourself...

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

[mikesw]

I cannot find one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. I don't see it in Hebrews either. Look for yourself...

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Funny. He makes his comment and then shows a verse that may speak of Jesus' work in creation. But I have not checked the context of that verse to base that suggestion.

 

[Fred]

I cannot find one single biblical verse

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

The "Lord" in the passage above refers to Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

The "Lord" in the passage above refers to Jesus.

Odd that you think that.

 

[mikesw]

Odd that you think that.

How odd is it that this passage refers to Jesus as Lord in a letter and passage that is focused on Jesus? It is weird how context influences the meaning. Ok. Maybe it is normal to consider context.
Edited: Here is the link to the post Fred mentions -- #post 2038

 

[Fred]

Odd that you think that.

See post 2,038 for help.

 

[mikesw]

See post 2,038 for help.

I just saw that image he posted. One thing is the image seems cultish -- the weird images and colors. Also, I was not ready to try and figure it out, especially since he has not been convincing on any major points he shares.

 

[Peterlag]

It still continues to amaze me on how you folks can believe God can be beat up, spit on, and killed. Such a concept of who God is all throughout the Old Testament displays no such concept. God is and always was a EDIT You were dead in the Old Testament if you even made an honest human mistake like bumped into the Ark or walked in the wrong room in the Temple. My friend Richard, says you can hold this view because you use the "get out of jail free" card whenever you need to. The card that says "that was the human side of Jesus."

Is Richard correct?

There's reasons why the Bible does not teach the trinity in one whole paragraph in a few different places or a whole chapter or two on it. There's reasons why there's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. There's reasons why there was never a debate about the trinity in Scripture like we see with justification by works or who should be circumcised. Such an important subject matter like the trinity and the Bible is silent on all of it.

And there's the spinning and twisting from the trinitarians who can't come up with one verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Trinitarians who can't come up with one verse that says why God would come to the earth as a man. Trinitarians who have to make up their own words that are not in the Bible. Words like trinity, deity, and incarnated.

If any of this nonsense was true and since it's so important and a huge subject to Christianity and is necessary for salvation like many teach. Then it would have been taught by someone somewhere. And it is not.

 

[Fred]

God is and always was a EDIT.

Twisted.

 

[Grace ambassador]

@Administrator, time for this thread to be locked up?: Now we have My LORD and my God (and Savior) Jesus Christ, Who Humbled Himself to Become A Man to "Die For our sins," is now being slandered:

God is and always was a b...$

But, still praying for these people... thanks.
+

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!​

Amen.

 

[Administrator]

@Administrator, time for this thread to be locked up?: Now we have My LORD and my God (and Savior) Jesus Christ, Who Humbled Himself to Become A Man to "Die For our sins," is now being slandered:


But, still praying for these people... thanks.
+

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!​

Amen.

I cleaned up the offensive posts.

 

[mikesw]

Now I sort of wonder what he said that was edited. That might show more explicitly his mindset. However, it seems the point was blasphemous so it hardly seems necessary to show more of his mindset. Thanks for the edit!
Added later: I saw the term elsewhere--inappropriate slang to apply to God.

 

[Peterlag]

@Administrator, time for this thread to be locked up?: Now we have My LORD and my God (and Savior) Jesus Christ, Who Humbled Himself to Become A Man to "Die For our sins," is now being slandered:


But, still praying for these people... thanks.
+

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!​

Amen.

EDIT someone or something that you admire or find impressive. Cambridge Dictionary
a person tough and aggressive. Oxford Learners Dictionaries
they are very tough. Collins Dictionary

 

[Fred]

EDIT someone or something that you admire or find impressive. Cambridge Dictionary
a person tough and aggressive. Oxford Learners Dictionaries
they are very tough. Collins Dictionary

Wow.

I can punch in 4 letter words and some dictionaries will supply the definition.
That doesn't mean I have the right to say them or post them here.

Get a serious clue.

 

[Peterlag]

Wow.

I can punch in 4 letter words and some dictionaries will supply the definition.
That doesn't mean I have the right to say them or post them here.

Get a serious clue.

I posted the same data on 3 different Facebook group sites with tens of thousands of followers and everyone understood what I wrote and nobody had a problem with it. You guys read into stuff that's not there.

For example you look at Titus 2:13 and think it's referring to just God when it says "our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ"

Paul identifies God and Jesus as TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS. It's not valid to translate Titus 2:13 as: "our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ" - (The Christology Of Titus 2:13, J. C. Edwards, PHD, Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity and of Biblical Greek, St. Andrews College, NY.).

"Looking for... the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our saviour Jesus" Two Different Persons - (The Pulpit Commentary).

Many English Versions translate Titus 2:13 in a way which presents God and Jesus as two different persons:

"The appearing of... God, and the appearing of... Jesus" - (CJB).

"The appearing of... God, and of... Jesus" - (GNB, RGT, Moffat's, NMB).

In many of his writings Paul presents God and Jesus as two different persons:

Ephesians 5:5 -"Of God, and of Jesus" - (ASV, AMP, CEB, ESV, GNV, GNT, PHILLIPS, TLB,etc).

1 Timothy 1:1 - "Of Jesus by... God" - (KJV, AMP, BRG, CSB, CEB, Etc).

2 Timothy 4:1- "Of God and of Jesus" - (ASV, AMP, CEB, ESV, GNT, PHILLIPS, etc).

Paul continues with this distinction in the Book of Titus.

Titus 1:1 - "A servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus" - (all translations).

- Titus 1:4 - "From God... and... from... Jesus" (CJB, DRA, GNV, GW, NOG, NMB, Etc).

- "Of God... through Jesus" - (Titus 3:4,6).

As Andrew Perriman (holder of a degree in English Language and Literature from Oxford, and an M.P. and Ph.D from The London School of Theology - of which he is an Associate Research Fellow) points out: "This must weigh heavily against thinking that Paul identifies Jesus as God in Titus 2:13".

And as the New Testament scholar and trinitarian Henry Alford points out in his 'Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary', Vol.3, p.421:
"(A translation which differentiates God from Jesus at Titus 2:13) is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to Paul's way of writing."

Would it not be strange indeed if - after so consistently distinguishing between Jesus and God - Paul were to suddenly and inexplicably declare Jesus to be God? - Excerpted from my book "The False Arguments Of Trinitarianism."

 

[mikesw]

I posted the same data on 3 different Facebook group sites with tens of thousands of followers and everyone understood what I wrote and nobody had a problem with it. You guys read into stuff that's not there.

For example you look at Titus 2:13 and think it's referring to just God when it says "our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ"

Paul identifies God and Jesus as TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS. It's not valid to translate Titus 2:13 as: "our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ" - (The Christology Of Titus 2:13, J. C. Edwards, PHD, Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity and of Biblical Greek, St. Andrews College, NY.).
. . .

- "Of God... through Jesus" - (Titus 3:4,6).

As Andrew Perriman (holder of a degree in English Language and Literature from Oxford, and an M.P. and Ph.D from The London School of Theology - of which he is an Associate Research Fellow) points out: "This must weigh heavily against thinking that Paul identifies Jesus as God in Titus 2:13".

And as the New Testament scholar and trinitarian Henry Alford points out in his 'Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary', Vol.3, p.421:
"(A translation which differentiates God from Jesus at Titus 2:13) is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to Paul's way of writing."

Would it not be strange indeed if - after so consistently distinguishing between Jesus and God - Paul were to suddenly and inexplicably declare Jesus to be God? - Excerpted from my book "The False Arguments Of Trinitarianism."

You need to find smarter facebook groups.
It is not detrimental to the evidence of the divinity of Christ if Titus 2:13 distinguishes their distinctions. It still would be a forgivable error to see this as a verse about the divinity of Christ in light of the full body of scriptures.
When you neglect passages that show the divinity of Christ, you almost have evidence of your view. You also neglect that Jesus gets honored equally as the Father. The additional point is that Christ's name is above all names and thus deserves to be honored distinctly. Too bad you are so biased against recognizing the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus would have had to have the attributes of God...

if he was God, and most theologians agree that some of God’s attributes are unoriginated, self-existent, immortal, all wise, all good, all-powerful and omnipresent. But Jesus had none of those attributes.

• He was not unoriginated. Christ was the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16).
• He was not self-existent. “I live because of the Father” (John 6:57).
• He was not immortal. Jesus died and God resurrected Him (Acts 13:30).
• He was not all wise. Jesus “grew in wisdom” (Luke 2:52).
• He was not all-powerful. Christ said “the Son can do nothing by Himself” (John 5:19).
• He was not omnipresent. Jesus said after Lazarus died “I am glad I was not there” (John 11:15).

 

[Fred]

I posted the same data on 3 different Facebook group sites with tens of thousands of followers and everyone understood what I wrote and nobody had a problem with it.

1 John 4:5

 

[mikesw]

View attachment 2086
Jesus would have had to have the attributes of God...

if he was God, and most theologians agree that some of God’s attributes are unoriginated, self-existent, immortal, all wise, all good, all-powerful and omnipresent. But Jesus had none of those attributes.

• He was not unoriginated. Christ was the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16).
• He was not self-existent. “I live because of the Father” (John 6:57).
• He was not immortal. Jesus died and God resurrected Him (Acts 13:30).
• He was not all wise. Jesus “grew in wisdom” (Luke 2:52).
• He was not all-powerful. Christ said “the Son can do nothing by Himself” (John 5:19).
• He was not omnipresent. Jesus said after Lazarus died “I am glad I was not there” (John 11:15).

so Peterlag is an expert on what God incarnate could say and do despite not believing that God could have the ability to do all that. That last one... I hardly know what to say ... Maybe the first thing is that Jesus in bodily form was not in two places at once. Also, maybe with Elijah, God was not in the wind -- 1 Kings 19:11.
I have not checked into the supposed attributes of God in the sense of the omnis. These may explain some aspects of God but maybe only at a simple level that does not consider passages like 1 Kings 19.

 

[TibiasDad]

View attachment 2086
Jesus would have had to have the attributes of God...

if he was God, and most theologians agree that some of God’s attributes are unoriginated, self-existent, immortal, all wise, all good, all-powerful and omnipresent. But Jesus had none of those attributes.

• He was not unoriginated. Christ was the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16).
• He was not self-existent. “I live because of the Father” (John 6:57).
• He was not immortal. Jesus died and God resurrected Him (Acts 13:30).
• He was not all wise. Jesus “grew in wisdom” (Luke 2:52).
• He was not all-powerful. Christ said “the Son can do nothing by Himself” (John 5:19).
• He was not omnipresent. Jesus said after Lazarus died “I am glad I was not there” (John 11:15).

He emptied himself “and became obedient to death”. Knowing that when his temple was destroyed, he “would raise it again in three days”!

He voluntarily denied himself the use of his deity and conformed himself to the limitations of human capacities. He placed himself in the same circumstances that every human being has to bear and function within.

Doug