Peterlag
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He emptied himself of his right to be a prince and thereby humbled himself while on the earth. Why do you think he emptied himself of something else?
Thomas... My Lord and my God
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101G
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so, are you saying that scripture is a lie? 101G used scripture, so answer 101G with scripture, instead of accusation.
now prove 101G in error by the scriptures. your move.
101G.
MTMattie
Well-known member
You did not have to copy and paste all of that, I am not reading it myself.
If you dont mind calling Him a liar in Hebrews 1:8 , I dont mind not reading what you say.
Have a good one.
101G
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101G
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1 John 3:1 "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
and why is this? answer, 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" 1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:" 1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body." 1 Corinthians 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."
your answer please.
101G
it was better with runningman, who at least tried to work through issues raised with his proposal. Peterlag seems to think everything he says is the final word on it, but he might find an alternate reading of Phil 2:6 to his satisfaction but it does not make sense of the next several verses. Why would Paul say he was "born in the likeness of man" (Phil 2:7) unless the text acknowledges that he existed beforehand in the form of God?
As to God is a Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth...
The context is that the lady is speaking of the Messiah. Who Jesus is.
John 4:23-24 KJV - 3 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Then the woman refers the Messiah as the one who receives this worship and Jesus refers to Himself as the Messiah.
Vs. 23-24 connect with the Messiah as the one being worshipped. That's the context.
Now.. if you say.. no.. Jesus is only representing God or only pointing to God..you are not only ignoring loads other verses showing his power as God..but also that being an agent of God made Him equal.
Agency for Jesus in relationship to the Father isn't inferiority or immortal vs mortal, but being the very form of God.
In that day, an agent was viewed as the person who originated the message.
The context is that the lady is speaking of the Messiah. Who Jesus is.
John 4:23-24 KJV - 3 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Then the woman refers the Messiah as the one who receives this worship and Jesus refers to Himself as the Messiah.
Vs. 23-24 connect with the Messiah as the one being worshipped. That's the context.
Now.. if you say.. no.. Jesus is only representing God or only pointing to God..you are not only ignoring loads other verses showing his power as God..but also that being an agent of God made Him equal.
Agency for Jesus in relationship to the Father isn't inferiority or immortal vs mortal, but being the very form of God.
In that day, an agent was viewed as the person who originated the message.
Peterlag
Well-known member
The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Does the truth of what I write change if I hand write it out every time? Here's Hebrews 1:8 that I already wrote a while back...
Hebrews 1:8
“Your throne is God.” Hebrews 1:8 is an almost exact quotation from the Septuagint version of Psalm 45:6, which itself was a very good translation of the Hebrew text of Psalm 45:6, and Hebrews 1:9 is from the Septuagint of Psalm 45:7, which is a good translation of the Hebrew text of Psalm 45:7. Psalm 45:6 was God’s revelation to the Jews about their king, and here in Hebrews, Psalm 45:6-7 is being used to show that Jesus Christ is indeed God’s Messiah as was foretold in the Old Testament. Furthermore, not only was Jesus foretold to be the exalted king, he is presented in Hebrews as being better than angels (Hebrews 1:4). The theme of Hebrews 1 centers around the Father’s rule and elevation of the Son over the rest of creation. God spoke through the prophets, and then through His Son, who He appointed heir of all things and who is now seated at God’s right hand as second in command under God.
The Son has become better than the angels, who pay homage to him. The angels are ministers of God, but God Himself is the Son’s authority to rule, and God—the God of the Son—anointed him and set him above his companions, such that the Son now sits on God’s right hand. Hebrews exalts the Son, and in so doing exalts the Father. But in contrast to what Trinitarians say, Hebrews 1:8 (and thus Psalm 45:6) does not call Jesus “God” and does not support the Trinity. To see that fully, one must study Psalm 45. Upon examination, Psalm 45 does not support the Trinity, so when it is quoted in Hebrews 1:8 then that quotation does not support the Trinity either. The Jews read Psalm 45 for centuries and never concluded that the Messiah would be “God in the flesh” or somehow be part of a Triune God. But beyond that, it is clear in Psalm 45 that the person who is the subject of the Psalm is not God, but is a human being.
The renowned Greek scholar and Trinitarian, A. T. Robertson noted that the Greek word theos (God) could be understood as a vocative, “O God” or as a nominative, as in the phrase “God is thy throne” or “Thy throne is God.” He wrote: “Either [translation] makes good sense.” Hebrews exalts the Son, and in so doing exalts the Father. But in contrast to what Trinitarians say, Hebrews 1:8 (and thus Psalms 45:6) does not call Jesus “God” and does not support the Trinity. The Jews read Psalms 45 for centuries and never concluded that the Messiah would be “God in the flesh” or somehow be part of a Triune God. But beyond that, it is clear in Psalms 45 that the person who is the subject of the Psalms is not God, but is a human being.
Peterlag
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Again, there's no Scripture that says Jesus is a spirit or a form of a spirit.
Peterlag
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It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.
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dwight92070
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Peterlag
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I don't think I have ever been wrong once much less again. The word Lord in 2 Corinthians 3:17 is referring to God.
No, he emptied himself while in the form of God before becoming in the likeness of people because he did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped
Philippians 2:6–7 (LEB) — 6 who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man,
that is pre-existence, Which you keep ignoring
MTMattie
Well-known member
When things are so carefully laid out from the Holy Scriptures, and with explanations, why do "they" continually deny.
It is as if they are actually denying Jesus.
What are they afraid of?
It is one thing to argue predestination V free will, but this is actually arguing the very essence of Jesus, the Messiah.
So many verses that actually say Jesus is God, and if you include those that hint at they totally glaring at the readers, yet they be posted and
the first thing is they came and say... That proves nothing. That means mothing. That does not say that.
All I can say is WOW. And not in a good way.
Peterlag
Well-known member
That's impossible because Jesus is not God.
That is assuming the truth of your interpretation. However, that is the issue in view, especially in light of Phil 2:6-7 showing the only type of "form of God" he could have before being the likeness of man. I wonder if anyone has tried to give an alternative to what he was before he took on the likeness of man.
Many do not accept that Messiah = fully God
Messianic Jews also sometimes do this. Still separating Jesus from being fully God.
It's like they can't believe in a God that can show Himself in different manifestations. Like they HAVE to have Him dwelling in the universe..impersonal..formless with no personal form.
But anyway.. man this thread has gone on and on!
We wil never stop defending Jesus's diety
My point is that only God can be in the form of God. That proves Jesus is Deity.
Peterlag
Well-known member
Well, your point does not line up with Scripture because my Bible says Jesus was in the form of God.
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