Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Runningman]

You are blind to the truth, because the Spirit of God is not in you.

The Spirit in me is greater than the spirit in you. Guarantee it.

Your opinion is noted, thank you.

So far that's all you have offered.

No, there is only one standard. Neither David, nor God, nor any of David's followers ever claimed that he was God. If David had claimed to be God, then he would have had to prove that claim or be executed as a blasphemer.
Jesus claimed He was God, God supported Jesus' claim that He was God, and Jesus' followers claimed He was God. Jesus was executed because the Pharisees claimed that He was a blasphemer, but He was raised from the dead proving that He was not a blasphemer but really is God.

Jesus never claimed that he is God. For someone who has obviously read the Bible, it would be very dishonest for you to claim Jesus ever said that. Instead, you distort the Scriptures to your religion and attempt to make them bow down to your credal idol.

Jesus denied being God:

Mark 10
18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Just wow, smh. Your comparison is neither accurate, nor compelling. This is not the only passage that talks about Jesus coming down from Heaven and taking on flesh as a man. It is one of the most clear, but certainly not the only one.

So all over the Greek OT and NT there is never an incarnation then suddenly, out of the blue, without a prophecy of God becoming a man, and without any precedent, you say God incarnated? Sorry, hold my popcorn while I laugh at you. You are obviously at the disadvantage here because you don't have any Scripture to support your claims. As you can see, I only claim Jesus is the Son of God, born of Mary, was resurrected, and taken to heaven. The Bible makes all of my arguments for me so I don't end up in awkward situations like you are currently in.

Mostly I read from the NASB, but when I study, I compare passages in the KJV, the NKJV, the ESV, and the RSV (I stick with the word-for-word translations, see the chart below).
View attachment 1417

The word order in Greek is meaningless. It is the word form that is used that designates where in the English sentence it should go. And the word forms in Rom 9:5 indicate that those sentences are saying Jesus is God.

The NASB of Romans 9:5 also doesn't say Jesus is God. I already know you're going to argue otherwise. This is a matter of reading comprehension and English grammar. The context is regarding Jesus as a man, under the law and covenant, who is ethnically Jew. This doesn't describe God. This describes a man who God blessed forever as the verse plainly says.

Romans 9 NASB
5whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 9 NASB 1995
5whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 9 NASB 1977
5whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

They are gods, but not the God. Jesus is the God. Jesus did not claim to be just another ordinary person, or equal with the other men there. He claimed to be God, the creator of all that exists. And that is what they were accusing Him of claiming.

Jesus is not the God. Read John 10 again because there is no definite article before "Son" but there is one before "God. This verse literally translates to Jesus is "a Son of the God" and we could even drop the capitalization for Son in this verse if we wanted to. Trinitarians translate this verse incorrectly because they can't accept that Jesus isn't God. Don't believe me? Look at it yourself.

John 10 NASB
36are you saying of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

ὃν ὁ πατὴρ ἡγίασεν καὶ ἀπέστειλεν εἰς τὸν κόσμον ὑμεῖς λέγετε ὅτι Βλασφημεῖς, ὅτι εἶπον· Υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ εἰμι;

source: https://biblehub.com/text/john/10-36.htm
source: https://biblehub.com/texts/john/10-36.htm

It would not be blasphemy if it is true, which it is. Jesus said, "You say correctly that I am." He agreed with them that He was indeed equal with God the Father.

Verse?

Again, what does it mean to be a "Son" in the first century?

Offspring.

You refuse to see it, but it is there. When you have the Holy Spirit indwelling you and helping you see the Truth, come back and we can talk again.

I am still here.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where do you see Jesus saying he was God? There's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

Why did Jesus commit blasphemy?
Why did the High Priest believe Jesus committed blaspheymy? Matthew
I've already asked this and you did not reply.

Here it is again: WHY did the High Priest believe Jesus had committed blasphemy??
Mark 16:60-64
60 The high priest stood up and came forward * and questioned Jesus, saying, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"
61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
63 Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, "What further need do we have of witnesses?
64 "You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?" And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.

 

[Doug Brents]

The Spirit in me is greater than the spirit in you. Guarantee it.

There is no spirit greater than the Holy Spirit, and He resides in me. The spirit of the antichrist that resides in you is NOT the Holy Spirit.

So far that's all you have offered.

Scripture is not my opinion. And if this "yes you did, no I didn't" is what we have devolved into, then we are done here.

Jesus never claimed that he is God. For someone who has obviously read the Bible, it would be very dishonest for you to claim Jesus ever said that. Instead, you distort the Scriptures to your religion and attempt to make them bow down to your credal idol.

Jesus denied being God:

Mark 10
18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

That is not a denial of Him being God.

So all over the Greek OT and NT there is never an incarnation then suddenly, out of the blue, without a prophecy of God becoming a man, and without any precedent, you say God incarnated? Sorry, hold my popcorn while I laugh at you. You are obviously at the disadvantage here because you don't have any Scripture to support your claims. As you can see, I only claim Jesus is the Son of God, born of Mary, was resurrected, and taken to heaven. The Bible makes all of my arguments for me so I don't end up in awkward situations like you are currently in.

I am not in an awkward situation. I am not trying to convince you of the Truth. You can believe what you want to believe, but don't come crying to me at Judgement when you are on the left among the goats.

The NASB of Romans 9:5 also doesn't say Jesus is God. I already know you're going to argue otherwise. This is a matter of reading comprehension and English grammar. The context is regarding Jesus as a man, under the law and covenant, who is ethnically Jew. This doesn't describe God. This describes a man who God blessed forever as the verse plainly says.

Romans 9 NASB
5whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 9 NASB 1995
5whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 9 NASB 1977
5whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 9:5

Strong's Greek English Morphology 3739 [e] ὧν hōn whose [are] RelPro-GMP 3588 [e] οἱ hoi the Art-NMP 3962 [e] πατέρες, pateres patriarchs; N-NMP 2532 [e] καὶ kai and Conj 1537 [e] ἐξ ex from Prep 3739 [e] ὧν hōn whom [is] RelPro-GMP 3588 [e] ὁ ho - Art-NMS 5547 [e] Χριστὸς Christos Christ N-NMS 3588 [e] τὸ to - Art-ANS 2596 [e] κατὰ kata according to Prep 4561 [e] σάρκα, sarka the flesh, N-AFS 3588 [e] ὁ ho - Art-NMS 1510 [e] ὢν ōn being V-PPA-NMS 1909 [e] ἐπὶ epi over Prep 3956 [e] πάντων pantōn all Adj-GNP 2316 [e] Θεὸς Theos God, N-NMS 2128 [e] εὐλογητὸς eulogētos blessed Adj-NMS 1519 [e] εἰς eis to Prep 3588 [e] τοὺς tous the Art-AMP 165 [e] αἰῶνας, aiōnas ages. N-AMP 281 [e] ἀμήν. amēn Amen. Heb

Christ (Jesus) descended in the flesh from the patriarchs, being over all God, blessed forever.

Jesus is not the God. Read John 10 again because there is no definite article before "Son" but there is one before "God. This verse literally translates to Jesus is "a Son of the God" and we could even drop the capitalization for Son in this verse if we wanted to. Trinitarians translate this verse incorrectly because they can't accept that Jesus isn't God. Don't believe me? Look at it yourself.

John 10:36

Strong's Greek English Morphology 3739 [e] ὃν hon [of Him] whom RelPro-AMS 3588 [e] ὁ ho the Art-NMS 3962 [e] Πατὴρ Patēr Father N-NMS 37 [e] ἡγίασεν hēgiasen sanctified V-AIA-3S 2532 [e] καὶ kai and Conj 649 [e] ἀπέστειλεν apesteilen sent V-AIA-3S 1519 [e] εἰς eis into Prep 3588 [e] τὸν ton the Art-AMS 2889 [e] κόσμον kosmon world, N-AMS 4771 [e] ὑμεῖς hymeis you PPro-N2P 3004 [e] λέγετε legete do say V-PIA-2P 3754 [e] ὅτι hoti - , Conj 987 [e] Βλασφημεῖς, Blasphēmeis You blaspheme, V-PIA-2S 3754 [e] ὅτι hoti because Conj 3004 [e] εἶπον eipon I said, V-AIA-1S 5207 [e] Υἱὸς Huios Son N-NMS 3588 [e] τοῦ tou - Art-GMS 2316 [e] Θεοῦ Theou of God N-GMS 1510 [e] εἰμι; eimi I am’? V-PIA-1S

Verse?

Luke 22:70

Offspring.

That is correct at a very shallow level, but there is much more to it. A son, especially the first born (or in this case only) was the equal of his father in business relations in the household. This is why, when Jesus called Himself the Son of God, the Pharisees accused Him of making Himself equal with God.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

I stay out of the book of Revelation because most have no idea how to read the book. It's written mostly concerning Israel and in a ton of figures of speech. It has almost nothing to do with Christians. Most quote “I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God” thinking it's about Jesus when they go into Revelation. Today I wrote the following concerning Revelation, but mostly I stay out of the book.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God.” These words apply to God, not to Christ. The one, “who is, and who was and who is to come” is clearly identified in the context as God, not Jesus Christ. Revelation 1:4-5 reads: “Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.” The separation between “the one who is, was and is to come” and Jesus Christ can be clearly seen. The one “who is, and who was and who is to come” is God.

The phrase “the Alpha and the Omega,” has caused many people to believe this verse refers to Christ. However, study of the occurrences of the phrase indicates that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies solely to God. Scholars are not completely sure what the phrase “the Alpha and the Omega” means. Lenski concludes, “It is fruitless to search Jewish and pagan literature for the source of something that resembles this name Alpha and Omega. Nowhere is a person, to say nothing of a divine Person, called ‘Alpha and Omega,’ or in Hebrew, Aleph and Tau.

Although there is no evidence from the historical sources that anyone is named “the Alpha and Omega,” Bullinger says that the phrase “is a Hebraism, in common use among the ancient Jewish Commentators to designate the whole of anything from the beginning to the end; e.g., ‘Adam transgressed the whole law from Aleph to Tau’ (Jalk. Reub., fol. 17.4). That would make the expression the figure of speech, polarmerismos, similar to "and there was evening, and there was morning” which stands for the whole day, in Genesis 1. The best scholarly minds have concluded that the phrase has something to do with starting and finishing something, or the entirety of something. Norton writes that these words, “denote the certain accomplishment of his purposes; that what he has begun he will carry on to its consummation."

Pretty sure its not the ONLY doctrine you stay out of my friend .
YOU DO realize you have bought into a lie ............right .
I mean it actaully says BLESSED ARE those who read and hear the words IN THIS BOOK .
but you , like more and more , keep heading men who say , oH We dont get into that book
its too complex .
YEah right . THEY dont get into that book cause it PROVES SOMETHING .
And men must have a version of Jesus that makes him no greater than any of the other prophets so called in other false religoins .
BLESSED IS HE who reads and those who hear these words and keep the things written therein .
PS you should see how SERIOUSLY JESUS warned the churches , fROM HEAVEN
about false doctrine , about even allowing false teachers to seduce the people . BUT TODAYS LOVEY DO MARATHON
of false love says DONT JUDGE , DONT NAME , DONT ACCUSE , lets just find comoon ground . What a wind of vainity that song is .........

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Why did Jesus commit blasphemy?
Why did the High Priest believe Jesus committed blaspheymy? Matthew
I've already asked this and you did not reply.

Here it is again: WHY did the High Priest believe Jesus had committed blasphemy??
Mark 16:60-64
60 The high priest stood up and came forward * and questioned Jesus, saying, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"
61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
63 Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, "What further need do we have of witnesses?
64 "You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?" And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.

Have you ever noticed that everything the unbelieving jews accused JESUS of being , THEY WERE DOING themselves .
They accused JESUS of having a devil . YET JESUS said to them YE are of your father the devil .
THEY accused HIM of not following MOSES , yet HE said HAD YOU EVEN HEARD MOSES you would have BELIEVED ME
for he wrote of me .
THEY accused him of comitting blasphemy after blasphemy and claiimg they served GOD
when in fact , again QUITE the opposite .
THEY claimed to KNOW GOD and yet JESUS exposed them by reminding them
He who loves GOD would have LOVED ME for i came forth OF HIM .
They claimed to be children of abraham
and yet JESUS said YE do not the works of abraham .
You see abraham BELIEVED GOD and yet these sure did not BELIEVE GOD

 

[Marvelloustime]

Pretty sure its not the ONLY doctrine you stay out of my friend .
YOU DO realize you have bought into a lie ............right .
I mean it actaully says BLESSED ARE those who read and hear the words IN THIS BOOK .
but you , like more and more , keep heading men who say , oH We dont get into that book
its too complex .
YEah right . THEY dont get into that book cause it PROVES SOMETHING .
And men must have a version of Jesus that makes him no greater than any of the other prophets so called in other false religoins .
BLESSED IS HE who reads and those who hear these words and keep the things written therein .
PS you should see how SERIOUSLY JESUS warned the churches , fROM HEAVEN
about false doctrine , about even allowing false teachers to seduce the people . BUT TODAYS LOVEY DO MARATHON
of false love says DONT JUDGE , DONT NAME , DONT ACCUSE , lets just find comoon ground . What a wind of vainity that song is .........

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY

 

[Runningman]

There is no spirit greater than the Holy Spirit, and He resides in me. The spirit of the antichrist that resides in you is NOT the Holy Spirit.

The spirit in you is leading you into unrepentant idolatry because you worship a resurrected man who isn't God. You clearly have no guidance for truth or sin. It's pardonable, but you aren't guided by the Holy Spirit.

Scripture is not my opinion. And if this "yes you did, no I didn't" is what we have devolved into, then we are done here.

Maybe you should stop making baseless claims if you don't want to receive a proportionate response?

That is not a denial of Him being God.

Here's another one of your flat denials without a basis. That's why I keep answering you the same way. Jesus asked why he is being called good, rhetorically, because he isn't the good teacher. Instead, the only one who is good is God alone because God taught Jesus.

John 8
28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

I am not in an awkward situation. I am not trying to convince you of the Truth. You can believe what you want to believe, but don't come crying to me at Judgement when you are on the left among the goats.

​

Romans 9:5

​

Strong's Greek English Morphology 3739 [e] ὧν hōn whose [are] RelPro-GMP 3588 [e] οἱ hoi the Art-NMP 3962 [e] πατέρες, pateres patriarchs; N-NMP 2532 [e] καὶ kai and Conj 1537 [e] ἐξ ex from Prep 3739 [e] ὧν hōn whom [is] RelPro-GMP 3588 [e] ὁ ho - Art-NMS 5547 [e] Χριστὸς Christos Christ N-NMS 3588 [e] τὸ to - Art-ANS 2596 [e] κατὰ kata according to Prep 4561 [e] σάρκα, sarka the flesh, N-AFS 3588 [e] ὁ ho - Art-NMS 1510 [e] ὢν ōn being V-PPA-NMS 1909 [e] ἐπὶ epi over Prep 3956 [e] πάντων pantōn all Adj-GNP 2316 [e] Θεὸς Theos God, N-NMS 2128 [e] εὐλογητὸς eulogētos blessed Adj-NMS 1519 [e] εἰς eis to Prep 3588 [e] τοὺς tous the Art-AMP 165 [e] αἰῶνας, aiōnas ages. N-AMP 281 [e] ἀμήν. amēn Amen. Heb

Christ (Jesus) descended in the flesh from the patriarchs, being over all God, blessed forever.

There is no comma in the Greek. The context is about a Jewish man being a Jewish man under the Law, like the other Jewish people under the Law, who God blessed. Do you deny that?

​

John 10:36

​

Strong's Greek English Morphology 3739 [e] ὃν hon [of Him] whom RelPro-AMS 3588 [e] ὁ ho the Art-NMS 3962 [e] Πατὴρ Patēr Father N-NMS 37 [e] ἡγίασεν hēgiasen sanctified V-AIA-3S 2532 [e] καὶ kai and Conj 649 [e] ἀπέστειλεν apesteilen sent V-AIA-3S 1519 [e] εἰς eis into Prep 3588 [e] τὸν ton the Art-AMS 2889 [e] κόσμον kosmon world, N-AMS 4771 [e] ὑμεῖς hymeis you PPro-N2P 3004 [e] λέγετε legete do say V-PIA-2P 3754 [e] ὅτι hoti - , Conj 987 [e] Βλασφημεῖς, Blasphēmeis You blaspheme, V-PIA-2S 3754 [e] ὅτι hoti because Conj 3004 [e] εἶπον eipon I said, V-AIA-1S 5207 [e] Υἱὸς Huios Son N-NMS 3588 [e] τοῦ tou - Art-GMS 2316 [e] Θεοῦ Theou of God N-GMS 1510 [e] εἰμι; eimi I am’? V-PIA-1S

And as you can see, Jesus is not the definitive son of God in John 10, but rather a son of THE God. Don't fall into the same delusional trap the other trins do. You're all so head strong and act scholarly until confronted with facts that do not validate the points you want to make.

Luke 22:70

That is correct at a very shallow level, but there is much more to it. A son, especially the first born (or in this case only) was the equal of his father in business relations in the household. This is why, when Jesus called Himself the Son of God, the Pharisees accused Him of making Himself equal with God.

Even so, none of them are themselves their own father nor have the same exact status as their father. Therefore, Jesus isn't God. Jesus said his Father is greater than him.

Did you know the Father is the only true God?

 

[Peterlag]

Pretty sure its not the ONLY doctrine you stay out of my friend .
YOU DO realize you have bought into a lie ............right .
I mean it actaully says BLESSED ARE those who read and hear the words IN THIS BOOK .
but you , like more and more , keep heading men who say , oH We dont get into that book
its too complex .
YEah right . THEY dont get into that book cause it PROVES SOMETHING .
And men must have a version of Jesus that makes him no greater than any of the other prophets so called in other false religoins .
BLESSED IS HE who reads and those who hear these words and keep the things written therein .
PS you should see how SERIOUSLY JESUS warned the churches , fROM HEAVEN
about false doctrine , about even allowing false teachers to seduce the people . BUT TODAYS LOVEY DO MARATHON
of false love says DONT JUDGE , DONT NAME , DONT ACCUSE , lets just find comoon ground . What a wind of vainity that song is .........

There's no Trinity. The verses that are used (including the book of Revelation) to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword.

 

[Peterlag]

Why did Jesus commit blasphemy?
Why did the High Priest believe Jesus committed blaspheymy? Matthew
I've already asked this and you did not reply.

Here it is again: WHY did the High Priest believe Jesus had committed blasphemy??
Mark 16:60-64
60 The high priest stood up and came forward * and questioned Jesus, saying, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"
61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
63 Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, "What further need do we have of witnesses?
64 "You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?" And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.

The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.

 

[Doug Brents]

The spirit in you is leading you into unrepentant idolatry because you worship a resurrected man who isn't God. You clearly have no guidance for truth or sin. It's pardonable, but you aren't guided by the Holy Spirit.

Says you. But Scripture and God say differently.

Here's another one of your flat denials without a basis. That's why I keep answering you the same way. Jesus asked why he is being called good, rhetorically, because he isn't the good teacher. Instead, the only one who is good is God alone because God taught Jesus.

John 8
28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

If you emptied yourself of all that you know, and all the power you have, would you have to be retaught everything you needed to know to do your job?
That is the position Jesus was in when He came down from Heaven and took on a body of flesh. He was born as an infant, and had to learn to walk, talk, read, understand the Scriptures, etc. He was then empowered by the Holy Spirit to do the works and wonders that He did.

There is no comma in the Greek. The context is about a Jewish man being a Jewish man under the Law, like the other Jewish people under the Law, who God blessed. Do you deny that?

That is part of the context, but not all of it. The statement is partially about His physical origin, but also about His spiritual superiority, glory, deity, and eternal nature.

And as you can see, Jesus is not the definitive son of God in John 10, but rather a son of THE God. Don't fall into the same delusional trap the other trins do. You're all so head strong and act scholarly until confronted with facts that do not validate the points you want to make.

"because I said, "Son of God I am". I don't see "a son of the God" anywhere in the Greek.

Even so, none of them are themselves their own father nor have the same exact status as their father. Therefore, Jesus isn't God. Jesus said his Father is greater than him.

You say, "even so", meaning that I am correct, but it doesn't matter. It matters VERY, VERY much. The fact that the listeners understood very clearly that He was claiming to be God, equal with the Father, makes your position untenable.
As a man, yes the Father was greater than He. But before He became a man, He was equal with the Father. And when He was glorified He went back to being equal with the Father.

Did you know the Father is the only true God?

And did you know that Jesus is 100% part of, equal to, and joint with the Father? The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father.

 

[Peterlag]

Not true at all. Who is it that will stand at Christ's right hand at Judgement? Only those who are in Christ. Only those who have been washed in His blood. This includes those who were righteous under the OC (Israel), AND those who are righteous under the NC (the Church).

Like I said before many folks go into the book of Revelation thinking verses like the following means Jesus is God. And again this is because they don't understand the book or who it is addressed to...

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God.” These words apply to God, not to Christ. The one, “who is, and who was and who is to come” is clearly identified in the context as God, not Jesus Christ. Revelation 1:4-5 reads: “Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.” The separation between “the one who is, was and is to come” and Jesus Christ can be clearly seen. The one “who is, and who was and who is to come” is God.

The phrase “the Alpha and the Omega,” has caused many people to believe this verse refers to Christ. However, study of the occurrences of the phrase indicates that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies solely to God. Scholars are not completely sure what the phrase “the Alpha and the Omega” means. Lenski concludes, “It is fruitless to search Jewish and pagan literature for the source of something that resembles this name Alpha and Omega. Nowhere is a person, to say nothing of a divine Person, called ‘Alpha and Omega,’ or in Hebrew, Aleph and Tau.

Although there is no evidence from the historical sources that anyone is named “the Alpha and Omega,” Bullinger says that the phrase “is a Hebraism, in common use among the ancient Jewish Commentators to designate the whole of anything from the beginning to the end; e.g., ‘Adam transgressed the whole law from Aleph to Tau’ (Jalk. Reub., fol. 17.4). That would make the expression the figure of speech, polarmerismos, similar to "and there was evening, and there was morning” which stands for the whole day, in Genesis 1. The best scholarly minds have concluded that the phrase has something to do with starting and finishing something, or the entirety of something. Norton writes that these words, “denote the certain accomplishment of his purposes; that what he has begun he will carry on to its consummation."

 

[Peterlag]

Kenotic Trinitarianism (where Jesus momentarily humbled himself to the level of a servant while still retaining his Deity) was already in the Bible. See Phil 2:5-7. It wasn't "developed" afterwards. That's your heresies infecting your mind. Try keeping to Biblical and historical facts.

Phil 2
5 Indeed, let this attitude be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.
6 Though he was by nature God, he did not consider equality with God as a prize to be displayed,
7 but he emptied himself by taking the nature of a servant.

Philippians 2:6 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should confess or believe that Jesus is God. From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.

 

[Peterlag]

Notice that the "he" in your quoted verse is italicized. That means that it is not in the original text and makes my quote correct. That shows once again just how weak and heretical your position is. It's back to the drawing board for you to brew up more falsehoods and heresies.

You say I'm weak in the Scriptures because the word "he" is not in the Bible and that makes you correct. What should I do with the following 29 translations that have the word "he" ...

New International Version
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

English Standard Version
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Berean Standard Bible
That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

King James Bible
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

New King James Version
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

NASB 1995
“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

NASB 1977
“I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Legacy Standard Bible
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."”

American Standard Version
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

English Revised Version
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Majority Standard Bible
That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.?

NET Bible
Thus I told you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."

New Heart English Bible
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."

Webster's Bible Translation
I said therefore to you, that ye will die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye will die in your sins.

Weymouth New Testament
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins; for, unless you believe that I am He, that is what will happen."

World English Bible
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

Young's Literal Translation
I said, therefore, to you, that ye shall die in your sins, for if ye may not believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.'

Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore I said to you, that you shall die in your sins. For if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sin.

New Revised Standard Version
I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.”

Lamsa Bible
I told you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.

Anderson New Testament
Therefore said I to you, that you shall die in your sins. For if you believe not that I am, He, you shall die in your sins.

Godbey New Testament
Therefore I said to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you may not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.

Weymouth New Testament
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins; for, unless you believe that I am He, that is what will happen."

Worrell New Testament
I said, therefore, to you, that ye will die in your sins; for, unless ye believe that I am He, ye will die in your sins."

Worsley New Testament
Therefore I said unto you, that ye shall die in your sins; for if ye believe not that I am the Messiah, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[GodsGrace]

Have you ever noticed that everything the unbelieving jews accused JESUS of being , THEY WERE DOING themselves .
They accused JESUS of having a devil . YET JESUS said to them YE are of your father the devil .
THEY accused HIM of not following MOSES , yet HE said HAD YOU EVEN HEARD MOSES you would have BELIEVED ME
for he wrote of me .
THEY accused him of comitting blasphemy after blasphemy and claiimg they served GOD
when in fact , again QUITE the opposite .
THEY claimed to KNOW GOD and yet JESUS exposed them by reminding them
He who loves GOD would have LOVED ME for i came forth OF HIM .
They claimed to be children of abraham
and yet JESUS said YE do not the works of abraham .
You see abraham BELIEVED GOD and yet these sure did not BELIEVE GOD

Great post T !
I never really noticed this.
Thanks!

 

[Runningman]

Says you. But Scripture and God say differently.

Oh ok, how does one have the Spirit of God in them according to God and Scripture?

If you emptied yourself of all that you know, and all the power you have, would you have to be retaught everything you needed to know to do your job?
That is the position Jesus was in when He came down from Heaven and took on a body of flesh. He was born as an infant, and had to learn to walk, talk, read, understand the Scriptures, etc. He was then empowered by the Holy Spirit to do the works and wonders that He did.

You have described Jesus as someone who is a human, who needed to develop physically, mentally, spiritually, just like everyone else. Jesus had to build repertoire with God because he didn't inherently have status with God nor inherently share in His divine qualities.

Luke 2
52And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

That is part of the context, but not all of it. The statement is partially about His physical origin, but also about His spiritual superiority, glory, deity, and eternal nature.

You're describing a Jesus who is completely divorced from his human. Didn't you know that the Son of God is a human?

"because I said, "Son of God I am". I don't see "a son of the God" anywhere in the Greek.

Word for word, this section of John 10:36 translates into reading English as "I am a son of the God." The "the" definitive article is on row 2 of the screen shot. This same kind of construct appears in John 1:1 where the Word is not the God, but is with the God.

You say, "even so", meaning that I am correct, but it doesn't matter. It matters VERY, VERY much. The fact that the listeners understood very clearly that He was claiming to be God, equal with the Father, makes your position untenable.
As a man, yes the Father was greater than He. But before He became a man, He was equal with the Father. And when He was glorified He went back to being equal with the Father.

You aren't correct, but I am willing to overlook you misrepresentation of the word son because you provided me the opening I need to point out that none of the other 1st century sons are their own father.

And did you know that Jesus is 100% part of, equal to, and joint with the Father? The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father.

Did you know Christians can be in God, Jesus, and each other in the same way God and Jesus are? Jesus said so. So, once again, you're still going too far with your theology.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.

Are you copying and pasting?
I do believe this was your previous answer.

So....
The Pharisees thought Jesus was a madman?
OK
Why did they want to kill Him? A mere crazy person.

In Mark 14 the question was NOT ...."ARE YOU THE MESSIAH".

The question was " ARE YOU THE CHRIST....THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD."

Christ means Messaiah.
OK.

But it does NOT mean SON OF THE LIVING GOD.

And why would the High Priest tear his clothes because Jesus claimed to be the Messiah?
Were the Jews not WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH??
NO...the High Priest tore his clothes because JESUS SAID HE WAS GOD...
THIS WAS THE BLASPHEME uttered by Jesus.

Your reply is null and void.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

There's no Trinity. The verses that are used (including the book of Revelation) to try to teach it are all taken out of context, or not understood how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation. It's an evil Catholic concept that was sold to the world mostly by the power of the sword.

Peter feel free to ask folks , i dont use the word trinity . I use the true word God head .
But if you THINK GOD IS NOT HIS WORD , HE is not HIS SPIRIT
that in fact YOU call JESUS a liar when HE says I am alpha and omega . FRIEND i do SHUDDER IN FEAR FOR YOU .
Now the truth is i do understand that this can be hard to be understood .
I know that .
BUT WHAT I DO ASK IS REAL SIMPLE . MAN it its written in the bible , DO NOT TRY and omit it ,change it , twist it .
Just beleive what is written , EVEN IF you do not understand it .
OH and remember interfaith all inclusive co exist finding common ground bridge builder seeker friendly
IS ALL of anti christ to lead all within christendom to the lie . I MEAN heck the false religoins arleady BELIEVE THE LIE .
THEY DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS TO BE THE SON OF GOD TO BE CHRIST .
But mark my words , ANYONE who is in any way a co helper to that which is of anti christ
IS OF THAT DARK SPIRIT no matter if they cliam they beleive JESUS to be THE CHRIST .
I mean can you imagine paul standing on stage
telling all satans religoins , like buddism , muslim , hinduism and etc
HEY BUDDIES WE ALL SERVING THE SAME GOD . Our truth is not better than yours. THAT BE OF ANTI CHRIST
though i must admit MANY cloaked in wool sure use HIS NAME to promote anti christ fake sorry dung pile love .
SURE HOPE you aint a part of that . IF you trying to find common ground , FRIEND YOU ALREADY ARE
because i can assure you that LIGHT does not try and find common ground with darkness
IT RATHERS EXPOSES IT . SO MUCH FOR FALSE LOVEY DO BIG OL BROAD ROAD DUNG this church age is buying and selling .

 

[mikesw]

Are you copying and pasting?
I do believe this was your previous answer.

So....
The Pharisees thought Jesus was a madman?
OK
Why did they want to kill Him? A mere crazy person.

In Mark 14 the question was NOT ...."ARE YOU THE MESSIAH".

The question was " ARE YOU THE CHRIST....THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD."

Christ means Messaiah.
OK.

But it does NOT mean SON OF THE LIVING GOD.

And why would the High Priest tear his clothes because Jesus claimed to be the Messiah?
Were the Jews not WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH??
NO...the High Priest tore his clothes because JESUS SAID HE WAS GOD...
THIS WAS THE BLASPHEME uttered by Jesus.

Your reply is null and void.

Peterlag's posts are proving to be a barrage cut-and-paste responses without any further discussion. It is not a blasphemous claim of being a messiah if he is only a man. (Nor do we hear of blasphemy accusations made by priests of the later people claiming to be the messiah. Those guys were welcomed and esteemed.) It is interesting that the high priest and others knew this identification of the Messiah was to be God's son in a divine sense (to clarify to those of a unitarian heresy). It would be a mystery to them how this is possible. Jesus has said earlier that people do not know from where he came. That essentially would make sense only that he was with God and descended into birth as Jesus.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Are you copying and pasting?
I do believe this was your previous answer.

So....
The Pharisees thought Jesus was a madman?
OK
Why did they want to kill Him? A mere crazy person.

In Mark 14 the question was NOT ...."ARE YOU THE MESSIAH".

The question was " ARE YOU THE CHRIST....THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD."

Christ means Messaiah.
OK.

But it does NOT mean SON OF THE LIVING GOD.

And why would the High Priest tear his clothes because Jesus claimed to be the Messiah?
Were the Jews not WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH??
NO...the High Priest tore his clothes because JESUS SAID HE WAS GOD...
THIS WAS THE BLASPHEME uttered by Jesus.

Your reply is null and void.

The key to knowing whether one speaks truth and what one recieves is truth
IS this . DO IT in any way CONTRADICT what is written . NOW IF IT DO , ITS A LIE .
Man i see all over the scrips words like BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS I AM .
My LORD and MY GOD said a thomas on his knees .
I SEE words like I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , the first and the last .
THEN I SEE MANY MEN WHO DENY THESE WORDS and twist them to fit A FAT LIE which makes VOID these sayings .
YOU wanna know what i call that , A DELUSION . a work of men under the guise of darkness .
But let me , allow me to remind us all of something massive in this last hours .
YE have heard men say LET US FIND COMMON GROUND with all religoins .
And yet i have to ask us all this question . what communion has light with darkness , Christ with belial .
DOES LIGHT FIND COMMON GROUND WITH DARKNESS , OR , AND THIS IS A BIG OL OR
OR DOES IT EXPOSE DARKNESS . exactly . IT EXPOSES darkness it dont try and find out what it has in common WITH DARKNESS .
WE BEEN LIED TOO . ITS ALL A SHAM . ITS ALL A DECEPTOIN to rather merge the decieved WITH the decieved
and to make all believe we serve the same GOD . Ever get the feeling
that satan can appear as an angel of light and that his own ministirs can wear wool
and yet be naught but DECIEVERS who use the word love in order to recreate another image of what it calls GOD
that ALL RELIGOINS WILL BELIEVE IS GOD . cause I SURE DO . that which is of anti christ
the falling away ,the mystery of inquity GROWS MASSIVE only more and more think its LOVE , LOVING and OF GOD .
THAT THERE is known as A DELUSION .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Great post T !
I never really noticed this.
Thanks!

We gots to hit the trenches dear friend . A Lie has been sent to gather all of the decieved
all who truly rejected the love of the truth .
This version of love is something the carnal mind WILL RELATE TOO , IT WILL ACCEPT TO BE AS TRUE .
But we must remember THAT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING JESUS SAID IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH .
WE must realize That IF JESUS SAID IT , GOD SAID IT . that JESUS , unlike man , CANNOT AND DIDNOT LIE .
Look at how dire he warned those who had failed to repent to believe on HIM .
GOOD HEAVENS HE SAID IT WILL BE WORSE FOR YOU THAN EVER IT WAS FOR SODOM .
todays lovey do says , OH it matters not , it matters not if one believes , OH JUDGE NOT , JUDGE NOT you haters
there are good people in all religoins serving God in they own way . WHAT A CROCK OF DUNG .
JESUS HIMSELF said IF THEY BELEIVED NOT they would perish , DIE IN THEIR SINS . WORSE FOR YOU than ever
it was for sodom .
NO WONDER paul said if under the law by two or three witnesses a man could be put to DEATH ,
HOW MUCH WORSE , HOW MUCH SORER a punishment for those who trod CHRIST under foot .
WE BEING LIED TOO . yet many seem to love this lie , this lie they hold too that not only accepts certain sins
IT LAUGHS IN THE FACE OF GOD HIMSELF as it hollers , NO NEED TO BELEIVE ON CHRIST JESUS
we can LOVEY DO OUR WAY . i am telling us A strong delusoin of all out reprobation
has been unleashed and that more and more by the day and by the hour are buying the LIE .
MANY HAVE SOLD THE TRUTH for a lie .