The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13
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Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Keep feasting on the scrips . I just wondered if you have noticed this .
I recommend the high carb scrips.
MTMattie
Active Member
Not to wedge in here, but I have.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Not a word of the LORD will fall short . Truth glorifies Truth and when or if a voice does
speak that uses TRUTH but does so to honor a lie , that is a voice NO lamb shall heed .
Would you like a good and a wicked example of how this is done .
The wicked use the truth , LIKE GOD IS LOVE
but they will use that in a way that DISHONORS GOD , DISHONORS the SON . and thus IT IS A LIE .
For truth cannot lie , the spirit cannot lie , GOD cannot lie , but the dark one and man sure can .
An example is when folks use God is love , use love to excuse , overlook and even honor sin and a lie .
Thus through a version of what they say is love they imply All will be saved no matter if they beleived in CHRIST or not .
But that JUST TROD JESUS RIGHT UNDER FOOT and called HIM a liar .
HERE is how we use truth . TO HONOR GOD , TO HONOR the SON .
GOD is love , THUS HE DID SEND the SON so that all who do BELEIVE IN HIM would NOT perish but have everlasting life.
NOW that is how we use truth . THAT JUST HONORED HIM and IT ACTUALLY SAVES SOULS . thus we sure can see LOVE IN IT .
CHRIST never has been or will be a liar . He , the SPIRIT , cannot contradict HIS WORDS .
FOR the SPIRIT is TRUTH and sure does TESTIFY of the SON . THE FATHER TESTIFIED ON THE SON , THE SPIRIT DOES
and those who are HIS understand well HE is not the minstir of any mans sins . HE will never hold a dark rainbow
or kiss a koran or have us to find common ground with darkness . I sure hope that encourages ya my friend . I know it does
me .
Doug Brents
Active Member
Evidently, I have incorrectly defined the term "baptism "en" the Holy Spirit". I had defined it, as I thought you were using it, as meaning the indwelling of the Spirit. But based on the application you are giving it, it ONLY refers to miraculous empowerment of the Spirit, because that is ALL that is happening in the verses you are quoting here. The indwelling is not in evidence in Acts 10:45-46, nor in Acts 11:15-16, nor Acts 1:5, nor Acts 2:3-4. All of these are referring to miraculous empowerment, and not to the indwelling of the Spirit.
Yes, but what part of the Spirit did they receive? All of Him? No, not according to the text. They received the same part of the Spirit that the Apostles did on Pentecost (at the Beginning), power, praise, and tongues.
Yes, this is referring to the indwelling of the Spirit, because the empowerment of the Spirit had been received by people all through OT history. But NO ONE had been indwelt by Him yet.
Just because the same phrase is used doesn't mean that the same action was taken.
Doug Brents
Active Member
The Greek word "believing" is the word "pistis" that means "faith". The action demanded here is not just a heart action, but is "having faith in Him who justifies..." Heb 11 give example after example of what the heroes of the Faith DID. James 2 tells us that without action there is no faith (before or after salvation) because action is the soul that gives life to the body of faith ("as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without action is dead.").
An incorrect translation. Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. It is not just "assurance" and "conviction".
"And having been perfected, He became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him" Now, if He EVER gave any physical action that leads to or results in receiving salvation, then that is part of what it takes to "obey Him", and is included in this verse.
And you are perverting it by calling it just a mental exercise. Faith requires action or it is dead (nonexistent) (James 2:26).
Precisely. If you don't have action, then you don't have faith, and you must have faith to please God. Thus, you MUST have action to please God.
Good works indeed. But not all works are good works. There are also works of faith, and it is these that are required before the blessing of God is received (see Naaman, the widows, the nation of Israel, and the many other stories in the OT of promises made with conditions that had to be met to receive the gift).
That is not the message in these passages. That is the message you want to force into them. No, we cannot earn salvation by doing anything. Nothing we do is worth the life of Jesus. But we must do what He says leads to receiving the gift He has prepared for us if we are to receive it.
Acts 3:19 - repent so that you can receive forgiveness.
Rom 10:9-10 - Confessing Jesus as Lord results in receiving salvation.
Acts 2:38 - repenting and being baptized results in being forgiven.
None of these actions are "good works". They have no moral value. But they are absolutely required to receive the gift of salvation.
dwight92070
Active Member
There is nothing in the definition of "pistis" that demands physical action. The two meanings given in the Strong's are "faith" and "faithfulness". You wish to add your meaning to the word, but your meaning is not there.
You said: The action demanded here is not just a heart action, but is "having faith in Him who justifies"
You are wrong, this IS ONLY a heart action. GOD IS THE ONE WHO ACTS in sending Jesus to die for our sins and to justify us.
You mention examples of men and women who acted on their faith in Hebrews 11. You are correct. First they had faith - with NO actions. Second they acted on that faith - with actions.
Hebrews 11:1 The NASB translation here is NOT incorrect. "Assurance" and "conviction" are taken directly from the Strong's Concordance of the Greek dictionary - #'s 5287 and 1650. However, even if you put "substance" and "evidence" in the verse, it still requires NO action other than an "action" of the heart.
The first obedience required by Jesus is to "repent" and "believe". Jesus said, "This is the work of God, that you (confess Me as Lord and get baptized? - No!) believe in Him whom He has sent." The Jews asked Jesus what work they should do to work the works of God? Jesus' answer? Believe! Paul calls it the obedience of faith. There are NO works required here - other than works of the heart.
There are NO works or physical actions given in the Bible that lead to salvation - only works of the heart. Romans 10:9-10 are a kind of "litmus test", confirming that one is already saved under the New Covenant, just like Romans 10:5 refers to a man under the Old Covenant who is already godly and who practices the righteousness based on law. Both are seasoned believers, not new believers - therefore good works follow their salvation - they do NOT preceed their salvation.
It is clear from scripture that we must "hang on" to our salvation BY FAITH, by hanging on to the gospel message, because if we don't, it can slip away. Paul said,
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, IF YOU HOLD FAST the word which I preached to you, UNLESS YOU BELIEVED IN VAIN.
Hebrews 5:9 is NOT saying that obeying God by doing some work leads to eternal salvation. Once again, it's referring to someone who is already saved - hanging on to their eternal salvation by obeying God and "holding fast the word" as Paul said above. Even Jesus in the previous verse had to learn obedience - verse 8.
You are the one who uses terms like "a mere mental assent" or "a mere mental exercise", NOT ME. Those are not Biblical words, much less do they describe Biblical faith. Those are perverted definitions of faith. Those terms are insults to the Holy Spirit's power, when He grants new birth to those who put their faith in Jesus, and transfers them from the authority of darkness to the kingdom of His Beloved Son. You use the words "mental assent" to suggest that NOTHING happens when we trust Jesus and put our faith in Him. Being born again, having the Holy Spirit come into us, being forgiven of our sins, and having a new Lord in our lives - IS NOT NOTHING.
You said: The action demanded here is not just a heart action, but is "having faith in Him who justifies"
You are wrong, this IS ONLY a heart action. GOD IS THE ONE WHO ACTS in sending Jesus to die for our sins and to justify us.
You mention examples of men and women who acted on their faith in Hebrews 11. You are correct. First they had faith - with NO actions. Second they acted on that faith - with actions.
Hebrews 11:1 The NASB translation here is NOT incorrect. "Assurance" and "conviction" are taken directly from the Strong's Concordance of the Greek dictionary - #'s 5287 and 1650. However, even if you put "substance" and "evidence" in the verse, it still requires NO action other than an "action" of the heart.
The first obedience required by Jesus is to "repent" and "believe". Jesus said, "This is the work of God, that you (confess Me as Lord and get baptized? - No!) believe in Him whom He has sent." The Jews asked Jesus what work they should do to work the works of God? Jesus' answer? Believe! Paul calls it the obedience of faith. There are NO works required here - other than works of the heart.
There are NO works or physical actions given in the Bible that lead to salvation - only works of the heart. Romans 10:9-10 are a kind of "litmus test", confirming that one is already saved under the New Covenant, just like Romans 10:5 refers to a man under the Old Covenant who is already godly and who practices the righteousness based on law. Both are seasoned believers, not new believers - therefore good works follow their salvation - they do NOT preceed their salvation.
It is clear from scripture that we must "hang on" to our salvation BY FAITH, by hanging on to the gospel message, because if we don't, it can slip away. Paul said,
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, IF YOU HOLD FAST the word which I preached to you, UNLESS YOU BELIEVED IN VAIN.
Hebrews 5:9 is NOT saying that obeying God by doing some work leads to eternal salvation. Once again, it's referring to someone who is already saved - hanging on to their eternal salvation by obeying God and "holding fast the word" as Paul said above. Even Jesus in the previous verse had to learn obedience - verse 8.
You are the one who uses terms like "a mere mental assent" or "a mere mental exercise", NOT ME. Those are not Biblical words, much less do they describe Biblical faith. Those are perverted definitions of faith. Those terms are insults to the Holy Spirit's power, when He grants new birth to those who put their faith in Jesus, and transfers them from the authority of darkness to the kingdom of His Beloved Son. You use the words "mental assent" to suggest that NOTHING happens when we trust Jesus and put our faith in Him. Being born again, having the Holy Spirit come into us, being forgiven of our sins, and having a new Lord in our lives - IS NOT NOTHING.
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Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
It be LORD praising Time in the building my peoples . raise those hands and let the LORD be praised .
Did you read what i wrote?
Absolutely not
You are reading your thoughts into my words I stated
comparing with the gentiles experience which we find to be
Acts 11:15–16 (NASB95) — 15 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 “And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
They were baptized en the Spirit
and they spoke in tongues as we see on the day of pentecost
Acts 10:45–46 (NASB95) — 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.
having received the same experience as had the Jews
And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.
All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
same experience which was prophesied by Christ as a baptism en the Holy spirit
You have affirmed that baptism as saving
causing me to conclude previously that
So how can you imagine I believe the baptism en the Holy Spirit is just some empowerment imparting a spiritual gift?
Doug Brents
Active Member
The definition of "pistis" is faith and faithfulness. And the biblical definition of faith includes action. As you said, if there is no action then there is no faith.
You are partially correct. Jesus' action in living a perfect life and then dying and resurrecting Himself (through the Spirit) are the actions that save us. But as with every person in the OT who received a gift/blessing from God, we must do what He said leads to/results in receiving His gift, or we don't receive it.
Their faith is shown IN their actions. As James says, their actions are the soul of their faith that gives life to it. Without action faith doesn't exist.
Not true. Substance is something that can be held and/or felt. Evidence is something that can be seen and shown to others. This is not just a mental process, or an "action of the heart"; it is physical action in obedience to the commands of God.
And again, the word "believe" here is "pistis", so the English word should not be "believe" but "have faith" in Hi whom He sent.
You keep trying to make faith just a mental exercise, but it is not. Faith requires physical action or it is not real/doesn't exist/is dead. This is evidenced in Rom 10:9-10 which says clearly and explicitly that a physical action (confessing Jesus as Lord with the mouth) results in salvation being received.
The result cannot come before the thing that brings about the result. Confession of Jesus as Lord results in receiving salvation, so it MUST come before salvation is received. It is not evidence that salvation has been received.
NO ONE is already righteous. Rom 10:5 does NOT say that the man under the OT was already Godly. Their righteousness was based on the Law, and that the person who does what is in the Law will live by the Law.
Yes, "good works" follow salvation.
But repentance from sin does not follow salvation, it leads to receiving salvation (Acts 3:19).
And confession of Jesus does not follow salvation, it results in receiving salvation (Rom 10:9-10).
And baptism (in water) does not follow salvation, it saves us (1 Pet 3:21).
No, you are reading your preconception into the verse. Jesus is the author of salvation (He did the work by which we are saved, as you said at the beginning of this post), but He gives that salvation ONLY to those who obey Him, not just those who have a feeling, (only) believe in their heart, or say a prayer.
You are correct, they do not depict biblical faith. But that is what you are advocating. Just having mental assent (with no physical action) is not faith.
Not true at all. When we have faith (both mental assent and the actions that go with it), then we receive salvation. Just having mental assent with no action results in NOTHING happening from God's side either.
You are absolutely correct in that, but none of that happens until and unless we do what He commanded us to do (repent, confess Jesus, and be baptized).
Doug Brents
Active Member
As I said, I defined the term you are using incorrectly. If, as you point out, baptism "en" the Spirit is what is happening in Acts 11:15-16, then it is ONLY referring to miraculous empowerment. It has NOTHING to do with salvation, because salvation is not in view here. The Holy Spirit falling on the disciples "at the beginning" (Pentecost) was not about salvation (they were already saved (John 20:22)).
I was wrong in stating that "baptism "en" the Holy Spirit" was referring to salvation, because I defined the term improperly. My mistake.
It that is not what you believe, then you believe something wrong, because that is precisely what those verses are referring to. The Holy Spirit falling on them on Pentecost was not a salvation event. And the Holy Spirit falling on them at Cornelius' house was just like what happened on Pentecost (not a salvation event).
dwight92070
Active Member
Obviously, Doug, you don't understand Hebrews 11:1. Let's go with your preferred translation: "substance" and "evidence".
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Once you see the substance of something you have hoped for, you no longer hope for it - that is, your faith ENDS.
Once you see the evidence of something that you have not seen, you no longer need evidence - that is, your faith ENDS.
"For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it." Romans 8:24-25
Faith to be saved requires continual assurance of things hoped for and continual conviction of things not seen. We don't put our faith in material realities (lips confessing Jesus is Lord and water baptism), we put our faith in spiritual realities - to be exact, "a life-giving Spirit". 1 Cor.15:45
2 Cor.5:16 " ... even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer."
What you want to physically see is someone moving their lips, confessing Jesus is Lord.
What you want to physically see is someone being lowered in water and brought back up again, in the name of Jesus.
ONLY then, when both of those physical requirements are SEEN by you, will you acknowledge that that person has JUST BEEN SAVED.
But Jesus has a word for you:
"Because you have SEEN ME, have you believed?
"Blessed are they WHO DID NOT SEE, AND YET BELIEVED."
(Not to mention the fact that what you desire to see physically, is not a Biblical requirement for salvation anyway.)
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Once you see the substance of something you have hoped for, you no longer hope for it - that is, your faith ENDS.
Once you see the evidence of something that you have not seen, you no longer need evidence - that is, your faith ENDS.
"For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it." Romans 8:24-25
Faith to be saved requires continual assurance of things hoped for and continual conviction of things not seen. We don't put our faith in material realities (lips confessing Jesus is Lord and water baptism), we put our faith in spiritual realities - to be exact, "a life-giving Spirit". 1 Cor.15:45
2 Cor.5:16 " ... even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer."
What you want to physically see is someone moving their lips, confessing Jesus is Lord.
What you want to physically see is someone being lowered in water and brought back up again, in the name of Jesus.
ONLY then, when both of those physical requirements are SEEN by you, will you acknowledge that that person has JUST BEEN SAVED.
But Jesus has a word for you:
"Because you have SEEN ME, have you believed?
"Blessed are they WHO DID NOT SEE, AND YET BELIEVED."
(Not to mention the fact that what you desire to see physically, is not a Biblical requirement for salvation anyway.)
You are speaking nonsense and ignoring what was posted
Let me know when you are actually willing to address the verses and issues posted
Did you read what i wrote?
Absolutely not
You are reading your thoughts into my words I stated
comparing with the gentiles experience which we find to be
Acts 11:15–16 (NASB95) — 15 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 “And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
They were baptized en the Spirit
and they spoke in tongues as we see on the day of pentecost
Acts 10:45–46 (NASB95) — 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God.
having received the same experience as had the Jews
And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.
All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
same experience which was prophesied by Christ as a baptism en the Holy spirit
You have affirmed that baptism as saving
causing me to conclude previously that
So how can you imagine I believe the baptism en the Holy Spirit is just some empowerment imparting a spiritual gift?
as well as
Was that supposed to be a serious reply?
Where does scripture suggest they received only a part of the Spirit?
Ignoring the point that receiving the spirit speaks of the indwelling
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dwight92070
Active Member
Acts 11:15-16
It's amazing that Doug thinks that he knows that Peter was not referring to the salvation of Cornelius and his relatives and close friends, here in these two verses. That wouldn't fit his false belief that salvation ONLY occurs at baptism, which happened LATER in verse 48.
But of course, Doug is wrong. Peter himself said that God has given to Cornelius and his family and friends, the same gift that He gave to Peter and his companions AFTER THEY BELIEVED IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. Yes, that WAS the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as Doug said, but ALSO had to be the gift of salvation simultaneously, with the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Contrary to Doug's false belief, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ - which Cornelius and his people DID - according to Peter, IS NOT SUFFICIENT for them to be saved. However, we know that the Bible teaches the opposite - that is, that believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is ALL that is required to be saved.
Their sins were forgiven instantly at the point when they believed. In fact, in Peter's sermon to Cornelius and his people, he told them exactly that - that everyone who believes in Jesus receives forgiveness of sins - Acts 10:43.
In reporting this incident to the Jerusalem church later in Acts 15:7-9, Peter specifically says that the Gentiles (Cornelius and family/friends) HEARD THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL AND BELIEVED. Peter also says in verses 8-9 that because God knew the hearts of Cornelius and his people, knowing that in their hearts they were believing in the gospel, that He "cleansed their hearts by faith".
In Acts 11:13-14 Peter says that the angel that appeared to Cornelius specifically told Cornelius that Peter "will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household." Notice the angel said NOTHING about being saved by baptism, but "by words".
In fact, in Peter's report of what happened at Cornelius' house in Acts 11, he doesn't even mention them being baptized in water - yes, they were baptized in water, but Peter doesn't mention that here. Nor did Peter mention their water baptism, when he reported this incident to the Jerusalem church in Acts 15:7-9. If baptism in water was specifically required for salvation to occur, surely it would have been stated in Acts 10 or Acts 11 or Acts 15, but it IS NOT stated in any of these chapters - or elsewhere in scripture.
It's amazing that Doug thinks that he knows that Peter was not referring to the salvation of Cornelius and his relatives and close friends, here in these two verses. That wouldn't fit his false belief that salvation ONLY occurs at baptism, which happened LATER in verse 48.
But of course, Doug is wrong. Peter himself said that God has given to Cornelius and his family and friends, the same gift that He gave to Peter and his companions AFTER THEY BELIEVED IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. Yes, that WAS the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as Doug said, but ALSO had to be the gift of salvation simultaneously, with the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Contrary to Doug's false belief, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ - which Cornelius and his people DID - according to Peter, IS NOT SUFFICIENT for them to be saved. However, we know that the Bible teaches the opposite - that is, that believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is ALL that is required to be saved.
Their sins were forgiven instantly at the point when they believed. In fact, in Peter's sermon to Cornelius and his people, he told them exactly that - that everyone who believes in Jesus receives forgiveness of sins - Acts 10:43.
In reporting this incident to the Jerusalem church later in Acts 15:7-9, Peter specifically says that the Gentiles (Cornelius and family/friends) HEARD THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL AND BELIEVED. Peter also says in verses 8-9 that because God knew the hearts of Cornelius and his people, knowing that in their hearts they were believing in the gospel, that He "cleansed their hearts by faith".
In Acts 11:13-14 Peter says that the angel that appeared to Cornelius specifically told Cornelius that Peter "will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household." Notice the angel said NOTHING about being saved by baptism, but "by words".
In fact, in Peter's report of what happened at Cornelius' house in Acts 11, he doesn't even mention them being baptized in water - yes, they were baptized in water, but Peter doesn't mention that here. Nor did Peter mention their water baptism, when he reported this incident to the Jerusalem church in Acts 15:7-9. If baptism in water was specifically required for salvation to occur, surely it would have been stated in Acts 10 or Acts 11 or Acts 15, but it IS NOT stated in any of these chapters - or elsewhere in scripture.
dwight92070
Active Member
Titus 3:5 says "He saved us, NOT on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to his mercy ..." I would call water baptism a deed of righteousness, since it is commanded by Jesus for all who become His disciples, but this clearly says that we are not saved on the basis of this righteous deed - water baptism.
Then the verse goes on to say: but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. Doug's people, the baptismal regeneration crowd, says this refers to water baptism, which is ridiculous, since Paul had already dismissed that notion, saying that NO DEED of righteousness saved us, including baptism. The washing of regeneration, therefore, can only refer to the washing of the blood of Jesus, cleansing our consciences and our hearts. The renewing of the Holy Spirit is our being born again and being baptized into the body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit.
Then the verse goes on to say: but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. Doug's people, the baptismal regeneration crowd, says this refers to water baptism, which is ridiculous, since Paul had already dismissed that notion, saying that NO DEED of righteousness saved us, including baptism. The washing of regeneration, therefore, can only refer to the washing of the blood of Jesus, cleansing our consciences and our hearts. The renewing of the Holy Spirit is our being born again and being baptized into the body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit.
He is simply ignoring scripture.
Ignoring the fact that scripture states they received the Spirit, had repentance unto life and had their heart cleansed by faith.
Further
Acts 11:14 (LEB) — 14 who will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.
They would be saved by belief in the words spoken to them, not by water baptism.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You see the trees bend before the wind, you hear the moan of it in the branches, you feel it cool your skin, and you secure your belongings to prevent them being blown away. That is faith, and it still exists even though you can see the effects of the air you cannot see.
We have not yet seen Heaven, nor our salvation, nor our eternal life. We still hope for these things. But this is talking about hope, not faith ("Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love..."). Faith still exists even when we see the evidence for what we cannot see.
He is indeed what we put our faith in, and we see Him no longer. But we still have the Scriptures to inform us of what He did, and how He did it for us. And because we have not seen, we have faith that the Scripture is true.
Those things do not matter to ME in the least; I am not the one who set these conditions or made these commands. God is and they matter to God greatly, and so I MUST teach them. No one can enter the Kingdom of God (be born again) without being reborn of water and the Spirit (John 3:3, 5).
You want to accept a list of verses that only speak of "believe" and then you want to define "believe" as being just a mental process so that your preconceived idea of "no physical action" will stand up (at least in your mind). But you have to ignore or explain away clear, concise, explicit instructions of physical actions that God (not I) has said lead to or result in receiving salvation. But that boat don't float.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Tom, I have read what you posted, and it is mostly nonsense. Yes, the Spirit fell on the Gentiles in the same way He fell on the 120 on Pentecost. But that was not a salvation event, so neither was it a salvation event when He fell on the Gentiles.
I was mistaken! Your "baptism "en" the Holy Spirit" in not a salvation event. It is ONLY miraculous empowerment, because that is ALL that happened on Pentecost or in Cornelius' house.
Scripture does not state that this part or that part is received. It uses the same term "received the Spirit" for the many manifestations of the Spirit, but each person receives a different part, power, manifestation, gift of the Spirit (1 Cor 12:7-11).
No, "receiving the Spirit" does not always speak of the indwelling. Sometimes it does, but most of the time it is referring to empowerment.
Doug Brents
Active Member
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