The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[TomL]

Tom, I have read what you posted, and it is mostly nonsense. Yes, the Spirit fell on the Gentiles in the same way He fell on the 120 on Pentecost. But that was not a salvation event, so neither was it a salvation event when He fell on the Gentiles.

Man give it up

All you are doing is repeating your theology while ignoring scripture

The gentiles received the Spirit

Acts 10:47 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Receiving the spirit is seen as the indwelling here

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Texts tell us they had their heart purified by faith

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Not water baptism

That they had repentance unto life

Acts 11:17–18 (LEB) — 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”

That they received the gift of the Spirit

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,


seen as saving here

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


They were baptized en the Spirit

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Which you affirmed as saving

which BTW scripture does

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

I gave you five proofs it was indeed saving

 

[Doug Brents]

Man give it up

All you are doing is repeating your theology while ignoring scripture

The gentiles received the Spirit

Acts 10:47 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Yes, they received the Spirit. But receiving the Spirit here is the same as the Spirit that was received on Pentecost (at the beginning). And on Pentecost, the indwelling was not in view. ONLY miraculous empowerment was in view, because the disciples on Pentecost already had the indwelling of the Spirit.

Receiving the spirit is seen as the indwelling here

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Just because receiving the Spirit is referring to the indwelling here, that doesn't mean that it is referring to the indwelling everywhere in Scripture.

Texts tell us they had their heart purified by faith

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Not water baptism

BY FAITH, not by the falling of the Holy Spirit on them in power.

That they had repentance unto life

Acts 11:17–18 (LEB) — 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”

That they received the gift of the Spirit

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,


seen as saving here

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


They were baptized en the Spirit

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Which you affirmed as saving

which BTW scripture does

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

I gave you five proofs it was indeed saving

In your mind it was saving, but not according to Scripture. There is NOTHING in any verse in Scripture that says, or even hints, that it meant salvation for the Spirit to fall on people in power. Just the fact that the Spirit empowers someone (with tongues or any other gift) is not evidence that the person is saved.

 

[TomL]

Yes, they received the Spirit. But receiving the Spirit here is the same as the Spirit that was received on Pentecost (at the beginning). And on Pentecost, the indwelling was not in view. ONLY miraculous empowerment was in view, because the disciples on Pentecost already had the indwelling of the Spirit.

Um you are assuming here. You cannot show a passage where receiving the spirit means just to receive a supernatural gift

Receiving the spirit is seen as the indwelling here

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

What the disciples had received was a temporary filling of the Spirit from Jesus not the permanent infilling that awaited Christ's glorification and the promise of the father

Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

They had not yet obtained this as they were told to wait

The promise of the Father is seen here

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.'

and here

Joel 2:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids In those days will I pour out my spirit.

It is seen that the promise of the Father includes the indwelling of the Spirit

and according to Acts 1:4-5 it comes by way of the baptism en the spirit

The baptism en the Spirit is saving

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


The gentiles were in fact baptized en the Spirit

Acts 11:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

end pt1

 

[TomL]

Just because receiving the Spirit is referring to the indwelling here, that doesn't mean that it is referring to the indwelling everywhere in Scripture.

Do you have any passage where receiving the Spirit refers to just receiving a supernatural gift?

If you cannot provide one, you are busted

Further your own argument concerning

John 20:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

shows you had interpreted receiving the Spirit as being indwelt by the Spirit contrary to your argument above

 

[TomL]

BY FAITH, not by the falling of the Holy Spirit on them in power.

Um I posted

Texts tell us they had their heart purified by faith

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Not water baptism

you deal not deal with the fact this was before water baptism

and you ignored the fact they were given the Spirit, not just a supernatural gift.

You are simply ignoring the text and reading your own theology into it.

So the gentiles having believed, were given the Spirit and had their hearts purified before water baptism.

All contrary to your theology

 

[TomL]

In your mind it was saving, but not according to Scripture. There is NOTHING in any verse in Scripture that says, or even hints, that it meant salvation for the Spirit to fall on people in power. Just the fact that the Spirit empowers someone (with tongues or any other gift) is not evidence that the person is saved.

um you just ignored the scriptures

That they had repentance unto life

Acts 11:17–18 (LEB) — 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”

they received the gift of the Spirit

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,


seen as saving here

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


They were baptized en the Spirit

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Which you affirmed as saving

which BTW scripture does

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

I gave you five proofs it was indeed saving

and all you offered in rebuttal was a bald denial; while assuming the only thing that went on was empowerment in obtaining a spiritual gift contrary to the scriptures quoted

It's a bald denial of scripture

 

[Doug Brents]

Um you are assuming here. You cannot show a passage where receiving the spirit means just to receive a supernatural gift

No assumption at all. Acts 11 says that the reception of the Spirit by the Gentiles was the same as the reception of the Spirit by the Jews on Pentecost. The Jews on Pentecost already had the indwelling of the Spirit from John 20:22. They didn't need another indwelling of the Spirit. All they needed was empowerment, which is what Jesus promised them they would receive a few days after He ascended. Salvation (indwelling) is not in view here.

you deal not deal with the fact this was before water baptism

They received power before they were baptized, not indwelling (salvation). Receiving power has nothing to do with salvation.

and you ignored the fact they were given the Spirit, not just a supernatural gift.

So the gentiles having believed, were given the Spirit and had their hearts purified before water baptism.

All contrary to your theology

No, they received power (tongues and praise), not salvation, not indwelling, not forgiveness. They received salvation when they were reborn by the Spirit and water (John 3:5) in baptism shortly after the Spirit fell on them in power.

and all you offered in rebuttal was a bald denial; while assuming the only thing that went on was empowerment in obtaining a spiritual gift contrary to the scriptures quoted

It's a bald denial of scripture

No, it is harmonizing Scripture, accepting and incorporating all Scripture into my doctrine.
All Scripture is true, all at the same time.
This means that John 3:5 (salvation/rebirth through water and the Spirit) and 1 Pet 3:21 (water baptism (like the Flood) now saves us through the working of the Spirit) must both be true when considering the salvation of the Gentiles in Acts 10. They received power when the Spirit fell on them, and then were saved when they were baptized into Christ (Gal 3:26-27). You MUST accept all Scripture, not just selectively picking passages that you can twist to fit your preconception.

 

[TomL]

No assumption at all. Acts 11 says that the reception of the Spirit by the Gentiles was the same as the reception of the Spirit by the Jews on Pentecost. The Jews on Pentecost already had the indwelling of the Spirit from John 20:22. They didn't need another indwelling of the Spirit. All they needed was empowerment, which is what Jesus promised them they would receive a few days after He ascended. Salvation (indwelling) is not in view here.

Sorry you are simply assuming they had the permanent indwelling of the Spirit ignoring my argument

Um you are assuming here. You cannot show a passage where receiving the spirit means just to receive a supernatural gift

Receiving the spirit is seen as the indwelling here

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

What the disciples had received was a temporary filling of the Spirit from Jesus not the permanent infilling that awaited Christ's glorification and the promise of the father

Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

They had not yet obtained this as they were told to wait

The promise of the Father is seen here

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.'

and here

Joel 2:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids In those days will I pour out my spirit.

It is seen that the promise of the Father includes the indwelling of the Spirit

and according to Acts 1:4-5 it comes by way of the baptism en the spirit

The baptism en the Spirit is saving

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


The gentiles were in fact baptized en the Spirit

Acts 11:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

You deal with none of this in your assumption, and even your own argument assumes the words receiving the Spirit refers to the indwelling, contrary to what you argue concerning the Gentiles.

BTW you cannot even show all who received on the day of pentecost had received at John 20:22 and you still ignore this

What the disciples had received was a temporary filling of the Spirit from Jesus not the permanent infilling that awaited Christ's glorification and the promise of the father

Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

 

[TomL]

They received power before they were baptized, not indwelling (salvation). Receiving power has nothing to do with salvation.

You ignored the fact they received all this before water baptism

The gentiles received the Spirit

Acts 10:47 (LEB) — 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”

Receiving the spirit is seen as the indwelling here

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Texts tell us they had their heart purified by faith

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Not water baptism

That they had repentance unto life

Acts 11:17–18 (LEB) — 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”

That they received the gift of the Spirit

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,


seen as saving here

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


They were baptized en the Spirit

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Which you affirmed as saving

which BTW scripture does

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

I gave you five proofs it was indeed saving and all were before water baptism


end pt2

 

[TomL]

No, they received power (tongues and praise), not salvation, not indwelling, not forgiveness. They received salvation when they were reborn by the Spirit and water (John 3:5) in baptism shortly after the Spirit fell on them in power.

Um they received the promise of the Father

Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

the Father's promise is seen here

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

as well as in Joel

can you seriously claim what is seen in Ezekiel 36 is not saving?

You are ignoring scripture and assuming your theology

end pt 3

 

[TomL]

No, it is harmonizing Scripture, accepting and incorporating all Scripture into my doctrine.
All Scripture is true, all at the same time.
This means that John 3:5 (salvation/rebirth through water and the Spirit) and 1 Pet 3:21 (water baptism (like the Flood) now saves us through the working of the Spirit) must both be true when considering the salvation of the Gentiles in Acts 10. They received power when the Spirit fell on them, and then were saved when they were baptized into Christ (Gal 3:26-27). You MUST accept all Scripture, not just selectively picking passages that you can twist to fit your preconception.

Hardly as you ignored the five proofs

T

Post in thread 'The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13'

Apr 24, 2025

No assumption at all. Acts 11 says that the reception of the Spirit by the Gentiles was the same as the reception of the Spirit by the Jews on Pentecost. The Jews on Pentecost already had the indwelling of the Spirit from John 20:22. They didn't need another indwelling of the Spirit. All they needed was empowerment, which is what Jesus promised them they would receive a few days after He ascended. Salvation (indwelling) is not in view here.

Sorry you are simply assuming they had the permanent indwelling of the Spirit ignoring my argument

Um you are assuming here. You cannot show a...

• TomL

• 

and your own confession that water baptism without the baptism en the spirit just gets you wet.

BTW the gentiles were baptized into Christ when they were baptized en the Spirit

for the baptism en the Spirit places one in the body of Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

and that happened to the gentiles before water baptism.

And we have your confession the baptism en the Spirit is saving

So the gentiles were saved before water
end pt4

 

[Doug Brents]

Hardly as you ignored the five proofs

You gave no "proofs", you gave opinions that I showed to be erroneous.

and your own confession that water baptism without the baptism en the spirit just gets you wet.

As I have said, I made a mistake in my definition of baptism "en" the Spirit. In most cases, it has NOTHING to do with salvation, and ONLY refers to miraculous empowerment. In a few cases, it does apply to the indwelling as well as empowerment. The context shows the difference.

BTW the gentiles were baptized into Christ when they were baptized en the Spirit

No, they received empowerment (tongues and praise) when the Spirit fell on them in power. They received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized in water which put them in Christ, washed away their sins, and united them with Jesus' death and resurrection.

for the baptism en the Spirit places one in the body of Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

As has been noted many times already, this does show that it is the Spirit who brings us into Christ, but this verse does not tell us when that happens. There are other verses, like Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, and many others that do tell us when this happens: during water baptism.

and that happened to the gentiles before water baptism.

Only in your mind, not in reality according to Scripture.

And we have your confession the baptism en the Spirit is saving

As I have already said, I made a mistake. I defined the term as being salvation only, but I was wrong in this definition.

 

[TomL]

You gave no "proofs", you gave opinions that I showed to be erroneous.

Bald denial as I gave multiple proofs

Sorry you are simply assuming they had the permanent indwelling of the Spirit ignoring my argument

Um you are assuming here. You cannot show a passage where receiving the spirit means just to receive a supernatural gift

1) Receiving the spirit is seen as the indwelling here

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

You ignored the rebuttal to your John 20:22 argument

What the disciples had received was a temporary filling of the Spirit from Jesus not the permanent infilling that awaited Christ's glorification and the promise of the father

Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

They had not yet obtained this as they were told to wait

The promise of the Father is seen here

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.'

and here

Joel 2:28–29 (KJV 1900) — 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids In those days will I pour out my spirit.

It is seen that the promise of the Father includes the indwelling of the Spirit

and according to Acts 1:4-5 it comes by way of the baptism en the spirit

The baptism en the Spirit is saving

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


The gentiles were in fact baptized en the Spirit

Acts 11:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

You deal with none of this in your assumption, and even your own argument assumes the words receiving the Spirit refers to the indwelling, contrary to what you argue concerning the Gentiles.

BTW you cannot even show all who received on the day of pentecost had received at John 20:22 and you still ignore this

What the disciples had received was a temporary filling of the Spirit from Jesus not the permanent infilling that awaited Christ's glorification and the promise of the father

Acts 1:4–5 (KJV 1900) — 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

End pt1

 

[TomL]

As I have said, I made a mistake in my definition of baptism "en" the Spirit. In most cases, it has NOTHING to do with salvation, and ONLY refers to miraculous empowerment. In a few cases, it does apply to the indwelling as well as empowerment. The context shows the difference.

Really?

This is the baptism en the Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

It is clearly saving as it puts one into the body of christ

You had it right originally, now you are just in denial of scripture and altering scripture to fit your theology

end pt2

 

[Doug Brents]

Bald denial as I gave multiple proofs

You gave multiple statements of your opinion, but no proofs. Just because you can find a verse of Scripture that seems to say what you want it to say does not mean that it proves your case.

You ignored the rebuttal to your John 20:22 argument

I ignored your argument about John 20:22, because you gave an opinion and not a proof. There is NOTHING in Scripture that would indicate that the reception of the Holy Spirit in John 20:22 was temporary.

and according to Acts 1:4-5 it comes by way of the baptism en the spirit

Miraculous empowerment does, but that verse has NOTHING to do with the indwelling of the Spirit.

BTW you cannot even show all who received on the day of pentecost had received at John 20:22 and you still ignore this

No, I don't ignore it. I have said that since Thomas was not with them in John 20:22 that it seems logical and clear that Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to him and potentially to the rest of the 120 at some other time before His ascension. No, there is no verse that says this, but there is a lot that Scripture doesn't say. But, it is very clear that the indwelling of the Spirit was given by God through Jesus before Pentecost. Which means that the falling of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost was not a salvation event, but only an empowerment event.

Really?

This is the baptism en the Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

It is clearly saving as it puts one into the body of christ

You had it right originally, now you are just in denial of scripture and altering scripture to fit your theology

1 Cor 12:13 is indeed baptism "en" the Spirit, but it does not tell us when that happens. But John 3:5, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, and many others that do tell us when this happens: during water baptism.

 

[TomL]

No, they received empowerment (tongues and praise) when the Spirit fell on them in power. They received the indwelling of the Spirit when they were baptized in water which put them in Christ, washed away their sins, and united them with Jesus' death and resurrection.

Sorry the text states

1)Acts 10:44–47 (LEB) — 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message. 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God. Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we also did!”


the gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit

it is considered saving here.

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

They received the spirit. The phrase refers to the indwelling here.

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

and

John 14:16–17 (LEB) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.


2) Acts 11:15–18 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 Therefore if God gave them the same gift as also to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” 18 And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”

They were baptized en the Spirit, considered saving here


1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

They had repentance unto life. Life comes from the Holy Spirit.

John 4:10–14 (LEB) — 10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you had known the gift of God and who it is who says to you, ‘Give me water to drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” 11 The woman said to him, “Sir, you have no bucket and the well is deep! From where then do you get this living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are you, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, and his sons and his livestock?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again. 14 But whoever drinks of this water which I will give to him will never be thirsty for eternity, but the water which I will give to him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”


They had received the Spirit so they had life and were saved

3) Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

They were given the Spirit not just a supernatural gift of empowerment.

The giving of the spirit is seen here

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (LEB) — 26 And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them.

an obviously saving act


and their hearts were cleansed by faith not water baptism

end pt3

 

[TomL]

As has been noted many times already, this does show that it is the Spirit who brings us into Christ, but this verse does not tell us when that happens. There are other verses, like Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, and many others that do tell us when this happens: during water baptism.

um it is clearly stated it is the baptism en the Holy Spirit that does this.

1 Corinthians 12:13–14) — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

The gentiles received the baptism en the Spirit

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

being baptized en the Spirit, they were placed in the body thus saved

end pt4

 

[TomL]

.

As I have already said, I made a mistake. I defined the term as being salvation only, but I was wrong in this definition.

You cannot erase this from scripture

1 Corinthians 12:13 — 13 For en one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.

it is a clearly saving act which places one in the body of Christ

 

[TomL]

1 Cor 12:13 is indeed baptism "en" the Spirit, but it does not tell us when that happens. But John 3:5, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, and many others that do tell us when this happens: during water baptism.

Um we know it happened here

Acts 11:15–16 (LEB) — 15 And as I was beginning to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them, just as also on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Thus the gentiles were saved.

End pt1

 

[mailmandan]