The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Eternally-Grateful]

It is the "easy believism" nonsense that you preach that is not truth. Without faith there is no salvation. You think faith is a cheap, watery, passive, internal, mental-only exercise, but nothing could be further from the truth than this. Faith requires action or it isn't real, and you think that an unreal faith can save you.

Its not easy.

we see that because people like you who want to add works to the gospel message.. which is what every religion does

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Easy believism? Faith involves trust and reliance and not mere mental assent belief and real faith results in producing actions but don't put the cart before the horse. You seem to believe that hard believism/salvation by works can save you but it can't. Salvation by grace through faith not works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT.

yes

He says we have easy believes, his is easier. get baptized.. that's pretty easy especially today.. unlike those in jesus day that may have had to walk for miles.. or get baptized in the winter with no heated tub

 

[dwight92070]

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

Let's meditate on this verse: It says that God did a work - US! We are His workmanship. He CREATED us in Christ Jesus. Only God can create - it is supernatural. He created us IN CHRIST JESUS. He didn't need man's actions or works here, except for the work that Jesus prescribed - According to Jesus, this is the work of God that we are to "perform": "that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

This is the work of God - He alone did this miraculous work. This is none other than the new birth - also known as salvation, being born again, sanctified, regenerated, redeemed, circumcised with the circumcision of Christ, justified, being saved, a new creation, a member of the body of Christ, a member of the Israel of God, a Jew inwardly, joint heirs with Christ, one new man, fellow citizens with the saints, fellow members of the body, fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus, children of Abraham, sons of God, joined with of the remnant of Israel, being grafted into the olive tree etc.

Why did God create us in Christ Jesus? "FOR GOOD WORKS". So NOW AFTER we were miraculously created in Christ Jesus, then we are to continually walk in good works, the first of which should be to obey Jesus and be baptized in water.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What are you talking about? This has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said.

Ah... but it does. You just don't understand how it matters. You're basically doing what many people do in theology. You're separating the work of God in Christ between the OT and the NT. That work can NOT be separated. It is the same work of God that has existed before the foundation of the world.

I explained to you that even though you claim to be saved by "baptism"... you will still die. I also shared Scripture that our salvation is not complete without each other.....

So in the context of eternal life, you're overstating the individual aspects of what is required to have eternal life.

I'd like to remind you that you must "keep the faith". You must then die. You must the be joined with all God's children together in the Resurrection to be after the full likeness of Christ our Lord.

I believe you're overstating the roll of "baptism" in salvation.

 

[praise_yeshua]

yes

He says we have easy believes, his is easier. get baptized.. that's pretty easy especially today.. unlike those in jesus day that may have had to walk for miles.. or get baptized in the winter with no heated tub

AH... Great claim. I enjoy it when people make this claim.....

What right do you have to baptize? John the Baptist told Jesus that he needed to baptized of Jesus.

Not just anyone can baptize someone else.

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Now get yourself out of this mess you created. I'd like to see it...

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It must be hard for you to understand, because you keep getting it wrong. Faith MUST have intellectual assent AND action or it is not real, and an unreal faith cannot bring salvation from God to us (which is what faith does, as Eph 2:8-9 says).

It is not that we have intellectual assent and from that we receive salvation, and then we go out and do works because we have received salvation.
Both intellectual assent and action must be present before salvation is received, or it is not received at all.

no, Your the one getting it wrong

I am saved BY GRACE through faith.

Once I am saved, I produce works.

if your going to add water baptism to the gospel. you better add all of the things God commands us to do

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No dan, that is not salvation by faith and works. You still misunderstand what faith really is, and that is what prevents you from seeing the truth. Satan has done a great job in hiding the truth from the world, and you have been caught up in his lie.

Yes it is.

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but by HIS MERCY, HE SAVED US.

water baptism is a work of righteousness.. plain and simple

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

AH... Great claim. I enjoy it when people make this claim.....

What right do you have to baptize? John the Baptist told Jesus that he needed to baptized of Jesus.

Not just anyone can baptize someone else.

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Now get yourself out of this mess you created. I'd like to see it...

mess? what mess? I do not understand your point

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree, but that verbal confession MUST still come before salvation is received. It is a prerequisite for receiving God's gift of salvation. And this completely eliminates the argument that many make that Eph 2:8-9 means that there is no physical human action required to receive salvation.

Okay. We mostly agree. However, simply "confessing" an "idol of imagination" doesn't get anyone anywhere. There must be some sort of mental and spiritual awareness that matches a proper view of WHO Christ Jesus literally is....

 

[praise_yeshua]

mess? what mess? I do not understand your point

Not just anyone can baptize. You're talking the position that they can. That is not true.

It is why Paul said specifically....

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

He was not sent to baptize under his position as the apostle to the Gentiles.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sure repentance can have an emotional component, but it is not an emotion, nor does it have to have an emotion attached to it. As Jesus said, the one who is forgiven much will love much, but the one who is forgiven little will love little. I know I have been forgiven very much. I also know that there is no sin that is greater or lesser than any other. All sin is a violation of God's Law, and violation of even the smallest part is a violation of the whole (James 2:10).

Brother...... you've been taught some very wrong things....There is a sin unto death. That sin is GREATER than to steal a piece of bread to keep from starving......

This "law" you reference should reflect your own guilt. Don't worry about others. Think about yourself and how different you are from God.

Repentance is very emotional. If you're not emotional about your sin, then you don't see yourself for what you. Emotions is what binds us to realty and God. A love that is unemotional isn't love at all. They're meaningless words. Words are designed to elicit reactions.

Have you wept before? Jesus has. God Himself showed His love through His tears. When dealing the sins of humanity, His emotional response was like none other in this world has ever seen.

It is difficult to claim a meaningful relationship to God and not be overwhelmed with emotions. I realize that some resist. They shouldn't. They resist because of their self will and how they might "look" to others and not God.

Psa 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Let's see:
He starts in Gen 1:1 with God making the whole world.
Then he says that God gives life to all things which is said in Deut 32:39.
Then in Deut 4:29 God says that man should seek Him and find Him.
Then he quotes from the Gentile's poets who, speaking about Zeus, said that we are his children (but Paul turns that to speaking about God.
These are just some of the OT passages that he references obliquely. Ii am sure there are more, but I haven't really gone through and cross-referenced all the passages he may have referenced from the OT in his sermon.

He doesn't quote them. He alludes to what they teach. If you know Paul's writings, you will see a distinct difference in "style" when Paul dealt with Gentiles that knew nothing about the Scriptures.

What you're missing is the differences from those who have long heard of Christ and those who have not. It is a distinctly different message and approach.

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

No other apostles did such things.

Paul didn't "lead" with baptism to Gentiles. Baptism was for Jews. It doesn't hurt that Gentiles get baptized. It can be meaningful.

For a Jew, it meant they were embracing what they had been taught in Abraham. That is why "repentance" was the lead of the Gospel to them.

 

[dwight92070]

yes

He says we have easy believes, his is easier. get baptized.. that's pretty easy especially today.. unlike those in jesus day that may have had to walk for miles.. or get baptized in the winter with no heated tub

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't even mention water baptism. There are none in Revelation. Compare that with the number of verses that mention salvation and water baptism - 10 verses or less than 5%. By the way, NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required for those persons to be saved.

I think that should tell us something: If water baptism was a requirement for salvation, then of those 213 verses, it would be obvious to think that 100% of the verses would state that clearly. But less than 5%?

Imagine a company with a large number of employees. On occasion it was necessary for each of them to enter into any of 100 rooms to do their work. Each room was filled with toxic gas. On the entrance of each room it says: DANGER! BEWARE! UNLESS YOU PUT ON A GAS MASK AND HAZMAT SUIT TO ENTER THIS ROOM, YOU WILL DIE!!!

Do you think it would be a problem if there were NO warning signs on several of the rooms? You better believe it would!!

So how can God allow 213 verses to speak of salvation, with NO mention of water baptism, IF water baptism is necessary to be saved for all of eternity???

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Not just anyone can baptize. You're talking the position that they can. That is not true.

I am not sure what you are talking about. I made no such statement,

But I believe anyone who makes a disciple of another person can baptize them now that you mention it.

It is why Paul said specifically....

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

He was not sent to baptize under his position as the apostle to the Gentiles.

Paul said this to let them know that water baptism had nothing to do with the Gospel. for which he was sent to preach.

Not that he was not sent to baptize. because he did baptize some.

1 Corinthians 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't mention water baptism. There are none in Revelation. Compare that with the number of verses that mention salvation and water baptism - 10 verses or less than 5%.

I think that should tell us something: If water baptism was a requirement for salvation, then of those 213 verses, it would be reasonable to think that at least 80 to 90% of the verses would say something about it. But less than 5%?

And I think that number will be even less, when I do the same count in the four gospels - that is, salvation mentioned with water baptism vs. salvation mentioned without water baptism.

one of the main passages they use is John 3. Notice. no place in john 3 is water baptism mentioned.. Thats all the evidence we need.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am not sure what you are talking about. I made no such statement,

But I believe anyone who makes a disciple of another person can baptize them now that you mention it.

What you said "equaled" this.... You mentioned it all right. No other conclusion could have been drawn from what you said.

Paul said this to let them know that water baptism had nothing to do with the Gospel. for which he was sent to preach.

Not that he was not sent to baptize. because he did baptize some.

1 Corinthians 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

Jews. Baptism was for Jews. They had claimed faith in Christ their entire lives. NOW was the time to repent and accept Christ. That is what baptism meant to them. It began with John the Baptist. He was sent. The disciples were sent.

You haven't been sent. Paul wasn't sent. Believe what he said. He wasn't sent *as the apostle to the Gentiles" to baptize. You're dismissing HOW Paul said what he said.

 

[praise_yeshua]

one of the main passages they use is John 3. Notice. no place in john 3 is water baptism mentioned.. Thats all the evidence we need.

Some connect Nicodemus to water and Spirit relative to baptism because of John the Baptist and Jesus/disciples continuing that practice.

 

[Doug Brents]

@Doug Brents

1 side remark... then I'm gone.

All the evidence adds up to the fact that Paul only baptized Jews. Let’s examine this.

When it comes to our Paul and water baptism, the very first thing that we need to ask is: Does he ever command us, as members of the Church of this present Dispensation of Grace, the Body of Christ, Jews and Gentiles in one body by the cross, to water baptize in any of his 13 epistles. And the answer is no!

Paul never commands us to water baptize. In fact, every time Paul mentions water baptism anywhere in the bible, even outside of his epistles, it is in relation to the Nation of Israel (the Jews), and not to us Gentiles.

I don't agree. Paul makes the point many times that, in the NT, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile with regard to God. He also makes the point that there is only one God, one body of Christ (one Church), and one way of entrance to that body (baptism). So any instruction to the Jews with regard to salvation in the NT is equally applicable to the Gentiles.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't mention water baptism. There are none in Revelation. Compare that with the number of verses that mention salvation and water baptism - 10 verses or less than 5%.

I think that should tell us something: If water baptism was a requirement for salvation, then of those 213 verses, it would be reasonable to think that at least 80 to 90% of the verses would say something about it. But less than 5%?

And I think that number will be even less, when I do the same count in the four gospels - that is, salvation mentioned with water baptism vs. salvation mentioned without water baptism.

Peter mentions the symbolism of being rescued from death associated with water in the flood.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

A Jew need to recognize the Resurrection of the Christ they had murdered.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't agree. Paul makes the point many times that, in the NT, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile with regard to God. He also makes the point that there is only one God, one body of Christ (one Church), and one way of entrance to that body (baptism). So any instruction to the Jews with regard to salvation in the NT is equally applicable to the Gentiles.

Jew first doesn't mean anything to you right?

Agree or not doesn't change what is there.......

You can't show where Paul baptized a single Gentile.

Act 18:7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.
Act 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.