The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Doug Brents]

Give me a example of Satan's people speaking in tongues. Now realize that tongues is a heavenly language. "Former staff" means what to you?

You can agree with me here but I'm making a point. Cornelius wasn't a "former staff" member.

What is "former staff"?
The Holy Spirit has worked through humans, both saved and unsaved, and through animals.

Jew first doesn't mean anything to you right?

Agree or not doesn't change what is there.......

You can't show where Paul baptized a single Gentile.

As I noted before, Paul baptized several of the Gentiles in Corinth. "I am thankful that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name! 16 But I did baptize the household of Stephanas also; beyond that, I do not know if I baptized anyone else." - 1 Cor 1:14-16
Granted, Crispus was the Jewish leader of the synagogue in Corinth, but Gaius (Acts 19:29) was a Gentile, and the household of Stephanas were probably Gentiles.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

What you said "equaled" this.... You mentioned it all right. No other conclusion could have been drawn from what you said.

no it did not. I mentioned a person being baptized. not who would baptize them.

Please go back and read

Jews. Baptism was for Jews. They had claimed faith in Christ their entire lives. NOW was the time to repent and accept Christ. That is what baptism meant to them. It began with John the Baptist. He was sent. The disciples were sent.

You haven't been sent. Paul wasn't sent. Believe what he said. He wasn't sent *as the apostle to the Gentiles" to baptize. You're dismissing HOW Paul said what he said.

Has no bearing on anything I said.

you need to stop. because you are out of line claiming I said or insinuated something I never said

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Some connect Nicodemus to water and Spirit relative to baptism because of John the Baptist and Jesus/disciples continuing that practice.

Yes, they claim it, but with no supporting eveidence.

Jesus told nicodemus how to be born again, By faith in him, no water baptism required.

 

[Doug Brents]

No. God can certainly change His mind. A change of "mind" doesn't change the IMMUTTABILITY of God.

When MAN changes, God changes HIS MIND about man. You pass from death to life. God never changes. We do.

That has never been the topic of conversation. God does not change His character, nor does He change who He is; but He does change His mind, and He did change His covenant (His will). Yes, when man changes from seeking self to seeking God, God reconciles that person to Himself through Jesus Christ.

 

[Doug Brents]

Ah... but it does. You just don't understand how it matters. You're basically doing what many people do in theology. You're separating the work of God in Christ between the OT and the NT. That work can NOT be separated. It is the same work of God that has existed before the foundation of the world.

I explained to you that even though you claim to be saved by "baptism"... you will still die. I also shared Scripture that our salvation is not complete without each other.....

So in the context of eternal life, you're overstating the individual aspects of what is required to have eternal life.

I'd like to remind you that you must "keep the faith". You must then die. You must the be joined with all God's children together in the Resurrection to be after the full likeness of Christ our Lord.

I believe you're overstating the roll of "baptism" in salvation.

Ahh, now I understand what you are saying. But it is still nonsense.
Yes, everyone will die and our salvation will not be complete until all the NT saints are united with the OT saints, but only those who die in Christ will be united with the saints from the OT. Those who die apart from Christ will not be united with the saints from the OT. And the ONLY way to be united to Christ (in the NT) is to be baptized into Him. Salvation required different actions of faith in the OT, so the comparison of what actions of faith were required then vs now is immaterial.

 

[Doug Brents]

no, Your the one getting it wrong

I am saved BY GRACE through faith.

Once I am saved, I produce works.

if your going to add water baptism to the gospel. you better add all of the things God commands us to do

Nope, only repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism are said to LEAD TO or RESULT IN our receiving salvation. All other actions flow out from having received it.

 

[dwight92070]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't even mention water baptism. There are none in Revelation. Compare that with the number of verses that mention salvation and water baptism - 10 verses or less than 5%. By the way, NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required for those persons to be saved.

I think that should tell us something: If water baptism was a requirement for salvation, then of those 213 verses, it would be obvious to think that 100% of the verses would state that clearly. But less than 5%?

Imagine a company with a large number of employees. On occasion it was necessary for each of them to enter into any of 100 rooms to do their work. Each room was filled with toxic gas. On the entrance of each room it says: DANGER! BEWARE! UNLESS YOU PUT ON A GAS MASK AND HAZMAT SUIT TO ENTER THIS ROOM, YOU WILL DIE!!!

Do you think it would be a problem if there were NO warning signs on several of the rooms? You better believe it would!!

So how can God allow 213 verses to speak of salvation, with NO mention of water baptism, IF water baptism is necessary to be saved for all of eternity???

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Eternally-Grateful

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes it is.

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but by HIS MERCY, HE SAVED US.

water baptism is a work of righteousness.. plain and simple

No, it is not. When did Jesus save us? Before the foundation of the world. Thus His saving us came before we could do any actions of righteousness. But that does not mean that we do not have to do something in faith to receive His gift. I have already given several analogies that demonstrate this fact.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Nope, only repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism are said to LEAD TO or RESULT IN our receiving salvation. All other actions flow out from having received it.

I was baptized BY GOD.

You go ahead and go to God and when he asks why he needs to let you in, Say because (the name of the sinner who baptized you) baptized you.

Then remember the passage where he says lord lord have we not done all these works in your name, and he replies depart from me.....

Because if your going to rely in your water baptism, that's where your headed.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No, it is not. When did Jesus save us? Before the foundation of the world. Thus His saving us came before we could do any actions of righteousness. But that does not mean that we do not have to do something in faith to receive His gift. I have already given several analogies that demonstrate this fact.

lol.. My friend. You need to listen to yourself.

I was saved before the foundation

I was nnot saved by works

But I had to perform the work of water baptized to be saved.

Non of that makes any sense, because you contradicted your own words

 

[Doug Brents]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't even mention water baptism. There are none in Revelation. Compare that with the number of verses that mention salvation and water baptism - 10 verses or less than 5%. By the way, NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required for those persons to be saved.

It is totally irrelevant what percentage of God's statements about salvation mention water baptism. If even one passage states that it is essential, then it is absolutely essential. And John 3:5, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, and several others state that it is absolutely required. And Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, and several others state that it is in water baptism that we actually receive salvation. Case closed.

I think that should tell us something: If water baptism was a requirement for salvation, then of those 213 verses, it would be obvious to think that 100% of the verses would state that clearly. But less than 5%?

No, that wouldn't make sense at all. In a contract, once a requirement has been stated once, it need not be said explicitly again. It need only be referenced, as baptism is repeatedly referenced as being included in "faith/belief".

Imagine a company with a large number of employees. On occasion it was necessary for each of them to enter into any of 100 rooms to do their work. Each room was filled with toxic gas. On the entrance of each room it says: DANGER! BEWARE! UNLESS YOU PUT ON A GAS MASK AND HAZMAT SUIT TO ENTER THIS ROOM, YOU WILL DIE!!!

Do you think it would be a problem if there were NO warning signs on several of the rooms? You better believe it would!!

Key difference here. There is ONLY one room. And you cannot enter that room without having the user's manual taught to you. And the teacher is responsible for teaching the proper way to enter the room. If he teaches the wrong way to enter, then the trainee dies and the death is on the head of the teacher.

 

[Doug Brents]

Okay. We mostly agree. However, simply "confessing" an "idol of imagination" doesn't get anyone anywhere. There must be some sort of mental and spiritual awareness that matches a proper view of WHO Christ Jesus literally is....

Certainly. We must understand intellectually who and what Jesus is, but just understanding who He is and what He has done doesn't save us. We must still repent of our sins (Acts 3:19), confess Him as our Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and be baptized into Him (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, Matt 28:19, and many others).

 

[Doug Brents]

He doesn't quote them. He alludes to what they teach. If you know Paul's writings, you will see a distinct difference in "style" when Paul dealt with Gentiles that knew nothing about the Scriptures.

What you're missing is the differences from those who have long heard of Christ and those who have not. It is a distinctly different message and approach.

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

No other apostles did such things.

Paul didn't "lead" with baptism to Gentiles. Baptism was for Jews. It doesn't hurt that Gentiles get baptized. It can be meaningful.

For a Jew, it meant they were embracing what they had been taught in Abraham. That is why "repentance" was the lead of the Gospel to them.

Correct, Paul didn't LEAD with baptism, but he did get there in his "invitation" (as it were). When he talked to the jailer in Corinth, he baptized him also into Christ. Baptism is for the Jew and the Gentile, because there is no difference or distinction between them.

 

[mailmandan]

No dan, that is not salvation by faith and works. You still misunderstand what faith really is, and that is what prevents you from seeing the truth. Satan has done a great job in hiding the truth from the world, and you have been caught up in his lie.

It most certainly is salvation by faith and works. You remain deceived. Several years ago as a lost Roman Catholic I did not understand what faith is (I mixed faith and works together and simply called it faith, just as you do now) but as a born again believer I now understand that faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)

Faith is not mere "mental assent" belief conjoined with works, as you teach. Faith involves believing in our heart which includes trust and reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation and not merely believing certain things about Jesus in our head. You still cannot grasp this deeper faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and that prevents you from seeing the truth.

The god of this world (Satan) has done a great job in hiding the truth from those who do not believe the gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Correct, Paul didn't LEAD with baptism, but he did get there in his "invitation" (as it were). When he talked to the jailer in Corinth, he baptized him also into Christ. Baptism is for the Jew and the Gentile, because there is no difference or distinction between them.

Paul had no ability to baptize anyone into Christ. Paul is not God. Only God can do this..

Paul baptized in water..

 

[MTMattie]

Some connect Nicodemus to water and Spirit relative to baptism because of John the Baptist and Jesus/disciples continuing that practice.

Some dont have a clue to what they are talking about....

 

[Doug Brents]

It most certainly is salvation by faith and works. You remain deceived. Several years ago as a lost Roman Catholic I did not understand what faith is (I mixed faith and works together and simply called it faith, just as you do now) but as a born again believer I now understand that faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)

That is mistranslated. The proper translation is substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith is something you can see and feel. It is not just a feeling in your head/heart.

Faith is not mere "mental assent" belief conjoined with works, as you teach. Faith involves believing in our heart which includes trust and reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation and not merely believing certain things about Jesus in our head. You still cannot grasp this deeper faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and that prevents you from seeing the truth.

If you don't act on what you think in your head/heart, then you don't really trust or have reliance on Him.

The god of this world (Satan) has done a great job in hiding the truth from those who do not believe the gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

Thank God I am not among them, but you seem to be.

 

[Doug Brents]

Paul had no ability to baptize anyone into Christ. Paul is not God. Only God can do this..

Paul baptized in water..

Just as Jesus commanded us to do (Matt 28:19), and we are promised that when we do so, the Holy Spirit will remove our sins and unite us with Jesus' death and resurrection (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14), and that we will be made pure and holy (Eph 5:26-27), and be adopted into God's family (Gal 3:26-27).

 

[dwight92070]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't even mention water baptism. There are none in Revelation. Compare that with the number of verses that mention salvation and water baptism - 10 verses or less than 5%. By the way, NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required for those persons to be saved.

I think that should tell us something: If water baptism was a requirement for salvation, then of those 213 verses, it would be obvious to think that 100% of the verses would state that clearly. But less than 5%?

Imagine a company with a large number of employees. On occasion it was necessary for each of them to enter into any of 100 rooms to do their work. Each room was filled with toxic gas. On the entrance of each room it says: DANGER! BEWARE! UNLESS YOU PUT ON A GAS MASK AND HAZMAT SUIT TO ENTER THIS ROOM, YOU WILL DIE!!!

Do you think it would be a problem if there were NO warning signs on several of the rooms? You better believe it would!!

So how can God allow 213 verses to speak of salvation, with NO mention of water baptism, IF water baptism is necessary to be saved for all of eternity???

 

[Doug Brents]

I counted 213 verses from Acts through Jude, that mention salvation, but don't even mention water baptism. There are none in Revelation. Compare that with the number of verses that mention salvation and water baptism - 10 verses or less than 5%. By the way, NONE of those 10 verses tell us that baptism is required for those persons to be saved.

I think that should tell us something: If water baptism was a requirement for salvation, then of those 213 verses, it would be obvious to think that 100% of the verses would state that clearly. But less than 5%?

Imagine a company with a large number of employees. On occasion it was necessary for each of them to enter into any of 100 rooms to do their work. Each room was filled with toxic gas. On the entrance of each room it says: DANGER! BEWARE! UNLESS YOU PUT ON A GAS MASK AND HAZMAT SUIT TO ENTER THIS ROOM, YOU WILL DIE!!!

Do you think it would be a problem if there were NO warning signs on several of the rooms? You better believe it would!!

So how can God allow 213 verses to speak of salvation, with NO mention of water baptism, IF water baptism is necessary to be saved for all of eternity???

Repeating the same post here (599) as you made before (587) which I exposed as false in post 591 does not make it any more correct the second time.