The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Eternally-Grateful]

Amen! Noah and his family were not literally saved by the water but by the ARK. (Hebrews 11:7) The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were dry and therefore safe in the ARK. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

yep.

Just like only the save will be saved when Gods wrath is fulfilled and they are cast out. (Baptized with Fire)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

And you are God now, that you know my heart?

anyone who hears you speak knows you put water baptism above spirit baptism, and claim it is required..

So it was an act of man that caused the walls of Jericho to fall?
And it was an act of man that caused people dying of snake bite to be cured?
And it was an act of man that caused a single small jar of oil to fill all the jars the widow could borrow?
And it was an act of man that caused the flour and oil of the other widow to last through the famine?
No, these were acts of God in response to the faith, and faithful obedience, of the people in each of these events.

So you deny that Rom 10:9-10 says explicitly that the physical action of confessing Jesus with the mouth results in salvation?
If you deny that, then you are in open rebellion to the word of God and we are through debating, because you do not honor the Word of God.

lol. Stop trying to get out of the truth man.

You rely on some pastor who immersed you in water (were you fully immersed) and not God the Holy Spirit immersing you in the death and burial of christ as a means of your salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

anyone who hears you speak knows you put water baptism above spirit baptism, and claim it is required..

What Spirit baptism are you talking about?
- What happened on Pentecost and in Cornelius' house? That happened exactly these two times. So yes, I put water baptism as more important than this.
- The indwelling of the Holy Spirit? This is received during water baptism, and every single person who is in Christ has this. So it is neither more important nor less important, because the two happen at the same time.

lol. Stop trying to get out of the truth man.

I honor the truth in all things.

You rely on some pastor who immersed you in water (were you fully immersed) and not God the Holy Spirit immersing you in the death and burial of christ as a means of your salvation.

That is you ignoring what I have said, just as you ignore what God has said in Scripture. But you didn't answer the question:
Do you deny that Rom 10:9-10 says explicitly that the physical action of confessing Jesus with the mouth results in salvation?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

What Spirit baptism are you talking about?

John told everyone he baptized they would be baptized with the spirit and fire.
Jesus told his disciples they would be baptized with the spirit not many days..
No it is not 2 times. It is every time. If your not baptized by God into Christ your still dead in your sin.
and you WILL be baptized in fire on the last day

- What happened on Pentecost and in Cornelius' house? That happened exactly these two times. So yes, I put water baptism as more important than this.

Then you are foolish

- The indwelling of the Holy Spirit? This is received during water baptism, and every single person who is in Christ has this. So it is neither more important nor less important, because the two happen at the same time.

The indwelling of the HS is from the anointing of the spirit. Please learn the difference between baptized and anointing. If you look to the OT law you will see a symbol. the priest was baptized in the river jordan, then anointed with the holy oil

I honor the truth in all things.

Not in this case you do not

That is you ignoring what I have said, just as you ignore what God has said in Scripture. But you didn't answer the question:
Do you deny that Rom 10:9-10 says explicitly that the physical action of confessing Jesus with the mouth results in salvation?

dude I already answered this

Saying yes to God is not me earning salvation. God is offering you salvation. If you say yes in faith you will not be condemned, if you say no in unbelief you will die and you are condemned already.

Stop focusing on yourself and focus on God.. I plead of you. to repent.

 

[Doug Brents]

dude I already answered this

Saying yes to God is not me earning salvation. God is offering you salvation. If you say yes in faith you will not be condemned, if you say no in unbelief you will die and you are condemned already.

Stop focusing on yourself and focus on God.. I plead of you. to repent.

What does the Word of God say? I am not asking for your interpretation of it. WHAT DOES GOD SAY?
Rom 10:9-10 - "if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

What does it say in bold above?

 

[dwight92070]

That is your strawman that has no basis in Scripture. It takes what God says it takes, and nothing less.

Do you deny that is takes 2 people for 1 of them to be saved? That's your doctrine, not mine. One person who wants salvation, and the 2nd person to baptize the 1st person. That's 2 people, by my count.
So admit it - you believe it takes 2 people for 1 of them to be saved. Except there's no scripture to verify that.

 

[Doug Brents]

Do you deny that is takes 2 people for 1 of them to be saved? That's your doctrine, not mine. One person who wants salvation, and the 2nd person to baptize the 1st person. That's 2 people, by my count.
So admit it - you believe it takes 2 people for 1 of them to be saved. Except there's no scripture to verify that.

There is also no Scripture that says that a person can be saved by themselves.
But there is a Scriptures that say that the teacher is to baptize the student.
And there is a Scripture, many of them, that say that salvation is received during water baptism.
Your conjecture that a man can be saved without taking any action is completely contrary to Scripture.

 

[dwight92070]

Doug said- "There is also no Scripture that says that a person can be saved by themselves."

You have to be blind to believe that. If that were true, then there would be no hope of eternal life for any man, woman or child, who is alone, and finds himself/herself in a near-death situation - which is something, unfortunately, that happens frequently in this world - and some actually die. They're called "death-bed" conversions. Think of the twin towers. Many poor victims had time to repent and be saved before the towers came crashing down on them. But there was no possibility of them getting baptized. Thank God that it doesn't take 2 people, and baptism, for 1 person to be saved!

"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How many persons are referred to here? One! Any person who calls on His name will be saved.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life." How many persons are referred to here? One!
"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats this bread, he will live forever; ... " Any ONE person.
" ... and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." Any person, alone, can come to Him and receive eternal life. Not so with your doctrine.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." One person who hears His word and believes in God who sent Him, has eternal life. No other person is required for salvation.
"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved." One person entering through Jesus.
"If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' " One person who believes in Jesus can be saved.
"I am the light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." One person, alone, can be saved.

No scripture tells a teacher to baptize a student. A disciple, a born again follower of Jesus, i.e. a Christian, is told to make other disciples, i.e. other Christians. Then when they have become Christians, he is told to baptize them.
There's no scripture that says that salvation is received during baptism. Rather, baptism is a figure of salvation - enacting the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Jesus tells us what action we are to take to be saved - "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Your conjecture that one man can only be saved when a 2nd man baptizes him, is completely contrary to Scripture.

In your false doctrine, it takes 2 men for 1 man to be saved.

 

[TomL]

No, He didn't. If he did, then there would have been no need for them to be baptized in water moments later. John 3:5 says that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God without both the Spirit and water. The Gentiles in Cornelius' house received some of the Spirit's gifts, but they had not yet received/passed through water, so they were not born again, the were not saved, and their sins were not washed away.

Um it's the presence of the Spirit which marks one as belonging to Christ

Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

not water

Ephesians 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug said- "There is also no Scripture that says that a person can be saved by themselves."

You have to be blind to believe that. If that were true, then there would be no hope of eternal life for any man, woman or child, who is alone, and finds himself/herself in a near-death situation - which is something, unfortunately, that happens frequently in this world - and some actually die. They're called "death-bed" conversions. Think of the twin towers. Many poor victims had time to repent and be saved before the towers came crashing down on them. But there was no possibility of them getting baptized. Thank God that it doesn't take 2 people, and baptism, for 1 person to be saved!

Hypotheticals and wishful thinking do not make Biblical doctrine.

"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How many persons are referred to here? One! Any person who calls on His name will be saved.

And yet, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." Just "calling on the name of the Lord" does not save.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life." How many persons are referred to here? One!

What does it mean to "believe"? It means to "have faith", and faith required doing what God says leads to/results in receiving His gift.

"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats this bread, he will live forever; ... " Any ONE person.

How do we "eat this bread"? It is not thorough thinking about Him. It is not through calling Him Lord. We "eat this bread" through being obedient to what He says leads to/results in receiving connection to Jesus' death and resurrection.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." One person who hears His word and believes in God who sent Him, has eternal life. No other person is required for salvation.

What does it mean to "believe"? It means to "have faith", and faith required doing what God says leads to/results in receiving His gift.
"How then are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? How are they to believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?"
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved." One person entering through Jesus.

How do we enter through Jesus?
"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life."

"If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' " One person who believes in Jesus can be saved.

What does it mean to "believe"? It means to "have faith", and faith required doing what God says leads to/results in receiving His gift.

"I am the light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." One person, alone, can be saved.

This verse does not say that one person, alone, can be saved.

No scripture tells a teacher to baptize a student. A disciple, a born again follower of Jesus, i.e. a Christian, is told to make other disciples, i.e. other Christians. Then when they have become Christians, he is told to baptize them.

If that were true, then they would already be united to Christ. But Rom 6:3-4 says that it is in baptism that we are united to Jesus' death and resurrection. So you are putting salvation before union with Jesus' death, which is not Biblically true.

There's no scripture that says that salvation is received during baptism. Rather, baptism is a figure of salvation - enacting the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

We do not die to sin until we are united to His death, burial, and resurrection which happens in baptism.

Jesus tells us what action we are to take to be saved - "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

What does it mean to "believe"? It means to "have faith", and faith required doing what God says leads to/results in receiving His gift.

 

[Doug Brents]

Um it's the presence of the Spirit which marks one as belonging to Christ

It is the Spirit's residence in a person's heart that marks him as belonging to Christ.
Just having the Spirit empowering you with miraculous power (which He can do to anyone and anything) does not indicate salvation.

 

[dwight92070]

I don't have to wish that person's on their deathbed could get saved without being baptized. I know they can. The thief on the cross, for example.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13 implies sincere faith, obviously, or else he wouldn't be saved, would he? So your quoting Jesus about people saying "Lord, Lord" doesn't even apply. So one person can sincerely call on the name of the Lord and be saved, without baptism.

"he who believes has eternal life." I'm sure the people Jesus was talking to had to ask, "What do you mean by 'believe'." You think the people were so stupid that they didn't know what "believe" meant. Jesus spoke plainly, so all clearly understand Him. So one person who sincerely believes can have eternal life, without baptism.

Jesus clearly explains what He meant by "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life." We just covered that in the previous paragraph: "he who believes has eternal life." Your silly question, "What does it mean to believe?" The people knew what that meant, so Jesus didn't have to explain it to them. The only reason you seem to feel like you have to explain it, is so that you can twist its meaning to get it to mean baptism.

An elementary student knows what "believe" means. Maybe you should ask a 5th or 6th grade student. He can explain that to you. (Hint: it has nothing to do with baptism.) It's too bad that Jesus used such difficult words, so that you can't understand Him.

Exactly, being born again IS being united with Christ, being saved. In baptism, we're "united in the LIKENESS of His death", not in His actual death.

Dying to sin takes place at the new birth. After that, we are "united in the LIKENESS of His death" ... in baptism.

What does it mean to believe? Maybe you need to repeat 5th and 6th grades. It's too bad that Jesus used words that are over your head.

 

[Doug Brents]

I don't have to wish that person's on their deathbed could get saved without being baptized. I know they can. The thief on the cross, for example.

The thief on the cross is not an example of NT conversion. He was promised salvation BEFORE Jesus died, before the Old Covenant was canceled, while Jesus could still change His will (last will and testament)(Heb 9:17).

"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13 implies sincere faith, obviously, or else he wouldn't be saved, would he? So your quoting Jesus about people saying "Lord, Lord" doesn't even apply. So one person can sincerely call on the name of the Lord and be saved, without baptism.

"he who believes has eternal life." I'm sure the people Jesus was talking to had to ask, "What do you mean by 'believe'." You think the people were so stupid that they didn't know what "believe" meant. Jesus spoke plainly, so all clearly understand Him. So one person who sincerely believes can have eternal life, without baptism.

You are still speaking as if "believe" meant to them what it means in America today. But it did NOT!! When Jesus said "pistis" (which many versions of Scripture translate as "believe") they heard "faith". And they understood that faith is not just a passive, internal, mental-only concept. Faith requires action for it to be effective; if it has no action then it is dead and worthless.

Jesus clearly explains what He meant by "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life." We just covered that in the previous paragraph: "he who believes has eternal life." Your silly question, "What does it mean to believe?" The people knew what that meant, so Jesus didn't have to explain it to them. The only reason you seem to feel like you have to explain it, is so that you can twist its meaning to get it to mean baptism.

I am not twisting anything. Yes, the people listening to Him knew what He was saying; He was saying "faith", not "intellectual assent".

An elementary student knows what "believe" means. Maybe you should ask a 5th or 6th grade student. He can explain that to you. (Hint: it has nothing to do with baptism.) It's too bad that Jesus used such difficult words, so that you can't understand Him.

A fifth or sixth grader would easily explain what the modern American definition of "believe" is, but very few people (in my experience) understand the Biblical meaning of it. They think like you do that it means "intellectual assent", but that is a far cry from the truth.

Exactly, being born again IS being united with Christ, being saved. In baptism, we're "united in the LIKENESS of His death", not in His actual death.

Yes, being born again is being united with Christ, His death, His resurrection, His bride. And as Scripture says, this occurs DURING water baptism.

Dying to sin takes place at the new birth. After that, we are "united in the LIKENESS of His death" ... in baptism.

The new birth takes place through water and the Spirit. It does not happen with just the Spirit and then water comes later.

 

[TomL]

The thief on the cross is not an example of NT conversion. He was promised salvation BEFORE Jesus died, before the Old Covenant was canceled, while Jesus could still change His will (last will and testament)(Heb 9:17).

You are still speaking as if "believe" meant to them what it means in America today. But it did NOT!! When Jesus said "pistis" (which many versions of Scripture translate as "believe") they heard "faith". And they understood that faith is not just a passive, internal, mental-only concept. Faith requires action for it to be effective; if it has no action then it is dead and worthless.

I am not twisting anything. Yes, the people listening to Him knew what He was saying; He was saying "faith", not "intellectual assent".

A fifth or sixth grader would easily explain what the modern American definition of "believe" is, but very few people (in my experience) understand the Biblical meaning of it. They think like you do that it means "intellectual assent", but that is a far cry from the truth.

Yes, being born again is being united with Christ, His death, His resurrection, His bride. And as Scripture says, this occurs DURING water baptism.

The new birth takes place through water and the Spirit. It does not happen with just the Spirit and then water comes later.

Faith not water baptism

And only the Holy spirit can create Christ in you, thus uniting you with him

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

What does the Word of God say? I am not asking for your interpretation of it. WHAT DOES GOD SAY?
Rom 10:9-10 - "if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

What does it say in bold above?

Again, you are hard of hearing

Does it say they EARNED SALVATION by WORKS?

No! Your issue is you do not understand what a work is.

A person calling on someone to rescue them is not them earning salvation. They did not MERIT salvation. the person who saved them MERITS the glory

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Doug said- "There is also no Scripture that says that a person can be saved by themselves."

You have to be blind to believe that. If that were true, then there would be no hope of eternal life for any man, woman or child, who is alone, and finds himself/herself in a near-death situation - which is something, unfortunately, that happens frequently in this world - and some actually die. They're called "death-bed" conversions. Think of the twin towers. Many poor victims had time to repent and be saved before the towers came crashing down on them. But there was no possibility of them getting baptized. Thank God that it doesn't take 2 people, and baptism, for 1 person to be saved!

"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How many persons are referred to here? One! Any person who calls on His name will be saved.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life." How many persons are referred to here? One!
"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats this bread, he will live forever; ... " Any ONE person.
" ... and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." Any person, alone, can come to Him and receive eternal life. Not so with your doctrine.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." One person who hears His word and believes in God who sent Him, has eternal life. No other person is required for salvation.
"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved." One person entering through Jesus.
"If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' " One person who believes in Jesus can be saved.
"I am the light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." One person, alone, can be saved.

No scripture tells a teacher to baptize a student. A disciple, a born again follower of Jesus, i.e. a Christian, is told to make other disciples, i.e. other Christians. Then when they have become Christians, he is told to baptize them.
There's no scripture that says that salvation is received during baptism. Rather, baptism is a figure of salvation - enacting the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Jesus tells us what action we are to take to be saved - "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Your conjecture that one man can only be saved when a 2nd man baptizes him, is completely contrary to Scripture.

In your false doctrine, it takes 2 men for 1 man to be saved.

He does not understand it is God who comes to our rescue. We are in the ocean of sin, a hurricane is blowing and we are by ourselves. God sends people to us to show us our need to be saved. Sadly we either think we can still somehow save ourself. Or that we do not need saved to begin with. or we understand we need help. but refuse to allow the savior to save us without our own work. we must take p[art in our own salvation.

When the judgment comes. As in Egypt. It will not look to who was good enough. It will not look to who was baptized in water and who was not. It will look for the blood of the lamb.

If the blood is there (you had faith) you will not be condemned, If the blood is not there. You did not believe) well you were condemned already.

it will be too late for this person to repent.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Faith not water baptism

And only the Holy spirit can create Christ in you, thus uniting you with him

water baptism is to the NT church what circumcision was to the old.

sadly people can not get works out of their brain, they think they must earn it.

 

[synergy]

water baptism is to the NT church what circumcision was to the old.

sadly people can not get works out of their brain, they think they must earn it.

For Jesus at least, during his baptism he received the Holy Spirit. I wouldn't call the receiving of the Holy Spirit a "works".

 

[Doug Brents]

@mailmandan
You can "wow" my comments all you want, but that doesn't change the truth in them.

 

[Doug Brents]

Faith not water baptism

And only the Holy spirit can create Christ in you, thus uniting you with him

Again you fail to understand what faith is. Baptism is an act of faith. It is THE act of faith that puts us in contact with the blood of Christ through which the Holy Spirit unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection.