The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[civic]

The order in Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

1- Go and make disciples-converts
2- Followed by Baptizing them after making them a disciple
3- Then teaching them everything Jesus commanded

hope this helps !!!

 

[Doug Brents]

You need to demonstrate that.

That has already been done, but you refuse to see it. I can't help that you have your head in the proverbial sand.

 

[Fred]

That has already been done,

That's your delusion.

but you refuse to see it.

Nothing is there to see.

I can't help

You can't help because you are trapped in your heresy.

 

[Aeliana]

How did the thief on the cross get saved? There was no water baptism available for him. I always love to see how this one is answered.

And after faith, repentance, confession and baptism comes faithful living for the rest of our lives. Out of the 5 Baptism is number 4

Living, serving and obeying God in accordance with His will. This is called "walking in the light" and concerning this John wrote in 1John 1:7-9, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We continue to walk in the light, confessing our sins when we fall short, picking ourselves up when we fall and keep on keeping on for life.

 

[Administrator]

@Fred @Doug Brents

We need to cool it down a little bit here gentleman.

 

[Fred]

ok

 

[Doug Brents]

How did the thief on the cross get saved? There was no water baptism available for him. I always love to see how this one is answered.

And after faith, repentance, confession and baptism comes faithful living for the rest of our lives. Out of the 5 Baptism is number 4

Living, serving and obeying God in accordance with His will. This is called "walking in the light" and concerning this John wrote in 1John 1:7-9, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We continue to walk in the light, confessing our sins when we fall short, picking ourselves up when we fall and keep on keeping on for life.

LOL, people keep coming back to this delusion.

The thief on the cross was promised salvation before Jesus died. Jesus was at liberty to save anyone He wanted before He died, just as Luke 5:20-24 says. Jesus had that authority, and He used it on behalf of the thief. But Jesus has now died, and His "Will" states that for anyone after His death, baptism is the point at which we are forgiven/washed clean/redeemed/justified/ect.

 

[Fred]

But Jesus has now died, and His "Will" states that for anyone after His death, baptism is the point at which we are forgiven/washed clean/redeemed/justified/ect.

Acts 10 is a place where His will is revealed in saving the Gentiles before they were water baptized.

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): Reception of the pneuma distinguishes Christians from the world (Jn. 14:17) and so unequivocally constitutes them Christians that (in Ac.) the answer to the question whether there has been reception of the Spirit determines absolutely whether a man is a Christian or not (Ac. 10:47; 19:2) (4:7, lambanō, Delling, the boldface is mine)

 

[civic]

LOL, people keep coming back to this delusion.

The thief on the cross was promised salvation before Jesus died. Jesus was at liberty to save anyone He wanted before He died, just as Luke 5:20-24 says. Jesus had that authority, and He used it on behalf of the thief. But Jesus has now died, and His "Will" states that for anyone after His death, baptism is the point at which we are forgiven/washed clean/redeemed/justified/ect.

That is your presupposition not the biblical one. Jesus Himself was baptized. Baptism was before and after His death.

And the deal breaker for your position is nowhere in the entire N.T. do we ever read that the 12 Disciples/Apostles were ever water baptized and they were saved.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Fred]

And the deal breaker for your position is nowhere in the entire N.T. do we ever read that the 12 Disciples/Apostles were ever water baptized and they were saved.

Yes!

Do you think that would include the others with them from Acts 1:15?

 

[civic]

Yes!

Do you think that would include the others with them from Acts 1:15?

Its talking about Spirit Baptism and has nothing to do with water there.

 

[Fred]

Its talking about Spirit Baptism and has nothing to do with water there.

1:15, not 1:5!!!!

 

[civic]

1:15, not 1:5!!!!

I must be blind as I do not see baptism in that passage.

 

[Aeliana]

LOL, people keep coming back to this delusion.

The thief on the cross was promised salvation before Jesus died. Jesus was at liberty to save anyone He wanted before He died, just as Luke 5:20-24 says. Jesus had that authority, and He used it on behalf of the thief. But Jesus has now died, and His "Will" states that for anyone after His death, baptism is the point at which we are forgiven/washed clean/redeemed/justified/ect.

You can't hardly call it a delusion when it's in the Bible.

 

[Fred]

I must be blind as I do not see baptism in that passage.

My question is, the others mentioned (the 120) - were they included with the apostles in not ever being recorded to having received water baptism?

They were also baptized with the Holy Spirit with the apostles in Acts 2:4 (cf. Acts 1:5).

Sidenote: I know many of the churches of Christ say what took place in Acts 2:4 only applies to the 12 apostles, but they are confused about this.

 

[civic]

My question is, the others mentioned (the 120) - were they included with the apostles in not ever being recorded to having received water baptism?

They were also baptized with the Holy Spirit with the apostles in Acts 2:4 (cf. Acts 1:5).

Sidenote: I know many of the churches of Christ say what took place in Acts 2:4 only applies to the 12 apostles, but they are confused about this.

Agreed.

 

[Doug Brents]

You can't hardly call it a delusion when it's in the Bible.

The delusion is that the thief's salvation has any impact on NT salvation. Because the thief was saved before the NT Church was founded. The thief was saved (there can be no doubt), but he was not part of the NT Church.

 

[Doug Brents]

That is your presupposition not the biblical one.

Not at all. It is clear that the thief was promised salvation before Jesus died. It is also clear that Jesus had the authority to forgive sins (and thereby grant eternal life in paradise) to anyone He chose to forgive, right up until His death. Now, He still has the authority to forgive sins as He chooses, but He is no longer in the flesh on Earth, and so He is not here to personally forgive sins. But He has written His "Will" (the Bible) and in it He has told us how to receive His forgiveness. And that includes water baptism as the point at which the Holy Spirit circumcises sin from our hearts (Col 2:11-14).

Jesus Himself was baptized. Baptism was before and after His death.

True, but His baptism was not for salvation (as He was never condemned (except when He became sin on the Cross)). So His baptism has no bearing on determining whether our salvation occurs before water baptism or during.

And the deal breaker for your position is nowhere in the entire N.T. do we ever read that the 12 Disciples/Apostles were ever water baptized and they were saved.

That is not a "deal breaker" in the least. We are not told many things that we would like to know. But that does not prevent us from finding the answers that we need through cross-reference of Scripture and Spiritual guidance. It is clear that water baptism plays a significant roll in salvation because of Acts 8:36, Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19, and Acts 22:16. These passages all tell us that there is a baptism that man performs (participates in the action of) that results in salvation. Spirit baptism is not an act that man can either perform or participate in the action of. Thus it cannot be the baptism that is being referenced in Rom 6:1-4 or Col 2:11-14. But passages like 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, and Eph 5:25-27 tell us that the baptism that we do participate in doing is baptism in water. This is the baptism that results in our forgiveness, cleansing of sin, and justification.

 

[civic]

Not at all. It is clear that the thief was promised salvation before Jesus died. It is also clear that Jesus had the authority to forgive sins (and thereby grant eternal life in paradise) to anyone He chose to forgive, right up until His death. Now, He still has the authority to forgive sins as He chooses, but He is no longer in the flesh on Earth, and so He is not here to personally forgive sins. But He has written His "Will" (the Bible) and in it He has told us how to receive His forgiveness. And that includes water baptism as the point at which the Holy Spirit circumcises sin from our hearts (Col 2:11-14).

True, but His baptism was not for salvation (as He was never condemned (except when He became sin on the Cross)). So His baptism has no bearing on determining whether our salvation occurs before water baptism or during.

That is not a "deal breaker" in the least. We are not told many things that we would like to know. But that does not prevent us from finding the answers that we need through cross-reference of Scripture and Spiritual guidance. It is clear that water baptism plays a significant roll in salvation because of Acts 8:36, Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19, and Acts 22:16. These passages all tell us that there is a baptism that man performs (participates in the action of) that results in salvation. Spirit baptism is not an act that man can either perform or participate in the action of. Thus it cannot be the baptism that is being referenced in Rom 6:1-4 or Col 2:11-14. But passages like 1 Pet 3:21, John 3:5, and Eph 5:25-27 tell us that the baptism that we do participate in doing is baptism in water. This is the baptism that results in our forgiveness, cleansing of sin, and justification.

It plays no role since the 12 disciples who are the 12 foundation stones and whom the church foundation is built upon were not water baptized in Scripture anywhere. Baptism by water does not save anyone but the Baptism of/by the Holy Spirit saves everyone.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Doug Brents]

It plays no role since the 12 disciples who are the 12 foundation stones and whom the church foundation is built upon were not water baptized in Scripture anywhere.

The baptism of the 12 is not RECORDED, but that does not mean it did not happen.

Baptism by water does not save anyone

Then why does Peter tell us that water baptism now saves us (1 Pet 3:21)? And why did Ananias tell Saul to be baptized and wash away his sins (Acts 22:16)? And why did the Eunuch request water baptism in Acts 8:36? And why did Paul tell us, not once (Rom 6:1-4) but twice (Col 2:11-14) that it is during water baptism that the Holy Spirit circumcises our sin from us and unites us with Christ's death and resurrection and we become a new creation?

but the Baptism of/by the Holy Spirit saves everyone.

The Spirit does have an active role in water baptism, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit has only occurred twice in all of history (Pentecost and Cornelius, the first Jews to join the Church and the first Gentiles to join the Church). There has NEVER been another occurrence of this event. So if you are telling us that Spirit Baptism is required for salvation, then the only people who are or can be saved were the 120 in the upper room and those in Cornelius' house. If only those who were present during these two events will be saved, then there is no hope for any of us.