The Trinity made easy

[Diserner]

Jesus...in the flesh was doing something akin to 'self limiting'... But was never inferior to the Father.

Excellent points, especially this one.

Too bad it makes you a heretic according to civic.

 

[civic]

Also when Jesus said 'the Father is greater than I'. ..

He ascended to be one with the Father later after saying this.

If I say 'the president of the USA is greater than me'.... Is he a superior being?

No.. we are both human ...he is not ontologically superior to me. He is in a greater POSITION.. but not superior as a being.

Jesus...in the flesh was doing something akin to 'self limiting'... But was never inferior to the Father.

Amen

 

[Muckah]

Your position devalues God's Son. A Father never devalues his son. Never. He sees equality in his son. If you, being evil, know how to give good things to your own, then how much MORE does God see equality in His own?

His position does not devalue Jesus. It places him right where he's supposed to be - the Son of God. Trinitarians are the ones who elevated the man Jesus to be on par with the Supreme God of the universe. Jesus was 100% man. He was divine but that doesn't make him co-equal to God the Father.

 

[Muckah]

Like I said. You are devaluing Him. Your insisting I'm inflating His value. That is impossible. There none better than Christ. None. It is impossible to overstate His value.

The Trinity inflates Jesus' character to being equal with the Father. No man has or ever will be equal to the Father who has no equals.

To whom then will you liken me or shall I be equal?” Isaiah 40:25

 

[Diserner]

By definition, divine does mean some sense of equality.

What we say is, equal in essence, submitted in rank.

 

[Muckah]

By definition, divine does mean some sense of equality.

What we say is, equal in essence, submitted in rank.

There are different levels of divinity. Divinity is Gods power and nature or whatever proceeds from God. There are different levels of His power and might.

 

[Fred]

His position does not devalue Jesus. It places him right where he's supposed to be - the Son of God. Trinitarians are the ones who elevated the man Jesus to be on par with the Supreme God of the universe. Jesus was 100% man. He was divine but that doesn't make him co-equal to God the Father.

The Son of God (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).

 

[Fred]

The Trinity inflates Jesus' character to being equal with the Father. No man has or ever will be equal to the Father who has no equals.

To whom then will you liken me or shall I be equal?” Isaiah 40:25

When it comes to rendering prayer and worship to the Father, Jesus is the equal recipient.

 

[Diserner]

There are different levels of divinity. Divinity is Gods power and nature or whatever proceeds from God. There are different levels of His power and might.

Whatever God is cannot, by definition, be lessened—don't you believe in the Creator/creature distinction?

There is an infinite gap between the Uncreated and the created—surely.

How can something be "a little bit" God?

 

[Diserner]

When it comes to rendering prayer and worship to the Father, Jesus is the equal recipient.

What confuses people, I think, is his complete submission to the Father.

People need to realize God instituted this system of submission so Christ could vicariously represent the Church.

22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. (Eph. 1:22-23 NIV)

 

[civic]

The Son of God (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).

Ditto

 

[Fred]

Ditto

In addition to John 20:28 and John 20:31...

Notice also "the Son of God" (Revelation 2:18) fully knows the hearts of all (Revelation 2:23), which elsewhere in the Bible affirms that only God knows (1 Kings 8:39).

The Son of God (Acts 9:20) is to be called upon (prayed to) as being Lord (YHWH) in Acts 9:21; cf. Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13).


Jesus, being the Son of God, is the proper recipient of prayer:

1 John 5:13-15
(13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(14) And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
(15) And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

 

[Diserner]

Also more directly, "If you ask [Me] anything in My name, I will do it." (Jn. 14:14 NKJ)

Even with the omission of some textural variants, he is claiming to be the one answering the prayers.

 

[Muckah]

You guys could turn Frank Zappa into God!

 

[civic]

You guys could turn Frank Zappa into God!

lol I luv it thanks for the laugh.

 

[Diserner]

You guys could turn Frank Zappa into God!

Bible:

The officers answered, "No man ever spoke like this Man!" (Jn. 7:46 NKJ)

Muckah:

Frank Zappa, it don't matter, you can turn anybody into God!

 

[Wrangler]

If I say 'the president of the USA is greater than me'.... Is he a superior being?

Yes.

No.. we are both human

Being superior does not necessarily mean a difference in species.

It’s like saying the battle of Leyte Gulf is not a greater battle than I had with my neighbor because they were both battles.

he is not ontologically superior to me. He is in a greater POSITION.. but not superior as a being.

False Alternative. Jesus does not specify how God is greater than he is; God could be a greater being AND in a greater position. I contend he is. Either way > is NOT =.

 

[360watt]

Yes.

Being superior does not necessarily mean a difference in species.

It’s like saying the battle of Leyte Gulf is not a greater battle than I had with my neighbor because they were both battles.


False Alternative. Jesus does not specify how God is greater than he is; God could be a greater being AND in a greater position. I contend he is. Either way > is NOT =.

The key thing is the fact of Jesus ascending to be one with the Father. That is the sense in which the Father was 'greater'. He wasn't referring to superiority/inferiority. Another way of putting it would be if I said the president of the USA is flying in a plane and I am on the ground

It just isn't a verse about the Father being superior. That isn't the context.

 

[Wrangler]

It just isn't a verse about the Father being superior. That isn't the context.

Neither is what you asserted.

The key thing is the fact of Jesus ascending to be one with the Father. That is the sense in which the Father was 'greater'.

The key thing is the fact that the Father is uniquely and repeatedly identified as God. In John 14, Jesus was answering the question ‘why will You reveal Yourself to us, but not to the world?’

Jesus replied in v24 that God sent him. This demonstrates God is the principle and Jesus is merely his agent. And in V28 Jesus tells us explicitly,’ If you love Me, celebrate the fact that I am going to be with the Father because He is far greater than I am.’

Because God is FAR greater than Jesus is why we should celebrate our beloved Messiah returning to our God.

You do realize Jesus refers to our father as our God, right? See John 20:17.

 

[Fred]

You do realize Jesus refers to our father as our God, right? See John 20:17.

You do realize that Thomas properly referred to the Lord Jesus a my Lord and my God, right? See John 20:28.

This corresponds with Revelation 4:11
“Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”