The suppression of reason, logic, common sense and morality in Calvinism

[Presby02]

They are two different things

Again do you have a verse which actually states he upholds sin.

There are many verses which show God is not the cause of man's sin

God does not entice anyone to sin. Temptation comes about through our own lusts.


James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.


These are not from god

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

Jer. 32:35 They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


Is. 30:1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD,
“who carry out a plan, but not mine,
and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit,
that they may add sin to sin;

Gal. 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.

God provides a way to avoid sin

1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Sin grieves God

Genesis 6:5–6 (ESV) — 5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.

and you want to claim he sustains it?

His judgment is upon those who sin

Ezekiel 6:9–10 (ESV) — 9 then those of you who escape will remember me among the nations where they are carried captive, how I have been broken over their whoring heart that has departed from me and over their eyes that go whoring after their idols. And they will be loathsome in their own sight for the evils that they have committed, for all their abominations. 10 And they shall know that I am the LORD. I have not said in vain that I would do this evil to them.”

It is Satan tempts men to sin

1Th. 3:5 For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain.

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

Matt. 4:3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

2Cor. 2:11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

2Cor. 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

That is Satan's interest, Not God's

Sure I do. He upholds and sustains ALL things. Does all mean all?

And now your going to repeat yourself avoiding the question. How does He uphold and sustain you yet not your sin that you commit or will commit.

If your going to dodge and repeat yourself ad nauseum then I'm done here. Your position supreses reason, logic and common sense.

 

[Rockson]

Sure I do. He upholds and sustains ALL things. Does all mean all?

And now your going to repeat yourself avoiding the question. How does He uphold and sustain you yet not your sin that you commit or will commit.

But you have such a weird and out of line understanding what it means when it says God sustains and YES it DOES MATTER how one considers this. God sustains the place whereby there will be and has been a demonstration time where God has allowed independence from him and the fruit that it brings forth to be shown.

That does NOT mean God wanted sin to occur or that he ordained it. It broke his heart and grieved him yes these 6000 years for the time of demonstration to be allowed but if not the question would never be settled in the universe that he didn't let independence from him to be allowed to play out. Well now he has and the D Time is soon to be over for good.

No one in all the eons future will be able to say we have a right to see what it would be like. THEY ALREADY HAVE! He will be able to point (fugitively speaking) over at the shelf where the 6000 time will always be there for a memorial that God was and is always right!

Sorry but what Calvinists put forth is really quite perverse. They are actually implying the demonstration time wasn't showing what man would do independent from God but rather that God was a co-partner and ACTIVE AGENT (by ordaining) in wanting to see the independence from him solidified. Never, ever, EVER was that God' will! God message to all is REPENT. Repent from your independence from God! While you're in that mode there is NO LIFE!

I

 

[civic]

Sure I do. He upholds and sustains ALL things. Does all mean all?

And now your going to repeat yourself avoiding the question. How does He uphold and sustain you yet not your sin that you commit or will commit.

If your going to dodge and repeat yourself ad nauseum then I'm done here. Your position supreses reason, logic and common sense.

It’s creation in the context of all things which you deny, the creation of the universe in Genesis 1.

 

[TomL]

Sure I do. He upholds and sustains ALL things. Does all mean all?

And now your going to repeat yourself avoiding the question. How does He uphold and sustain you yet not your sin that you commit or will commit.

If your going to dodge and repeat yourself ad nauseum then I'm done here. Your position supreses reason, logic and common sense.

It does not mean sin and refers to creation

Hebrews 1:1–4 (NASB 2020) — 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

And upholding (φερων τε [pherōn te]). Present active participle of φερω [pherō] closely connected with ὠν [ōn] (being) by τε [te] and like Col. 1:17 in idea. The newer science as expounded by Eddington and Jeans is in harmony with the spiritual and personal conception of creation here presented.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Heb 1:3.

Your belief here is not biblical

Scripture is showing he does not uphold sin

God does not entice anyone to sin. Temptation comes about through our own lusts.


James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

God is not upholding temptation


These are not from god

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

God is not upholding the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life



God provides a way to avoid sin

1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

God is not upholding the inevitibility of any one particular sin

Its funny how Calvinists translate all


It never really means all unless it is helpful to a Calvinist argument

Sorry in anyones position suppresses reason, logic and common sense it would be yours.

 

[Presby02]

It’s creation in the context of all things which you deny, the creation of the universe in Genesis 1.

You are part of creation. All things.

 

[TomL]

You are part of creation. All things.

What I do is not however

 

[Presby02]

What I do is not however

Sure it is. If you were not created you would do nothing.. You were created knowing full well what you were going to do and created for that very purpose.

 

[civic]

You are part of creation. All things.

no that was adam, nice try.

We are talking about genesis 1 which was 6,000 plus years ago.

nice try.

 

[civic]

What I do is not however

correct notice the deflecting lol

 

[Presby02]

no that was adam, nice try.

We are talking about genesis 1 which was 6,000 plus years ago.

nice try.

So He only upheld Adam and creation 6000 years ago? Serious?

 

[civic]

It does not mean sin and refers to creation

Hebrews 1:1–4 (NASB 2020) — 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

And upholding (φερων τε [pherōn te]). Present active participle of φερω [pherō] closely connected with ὠν [ōn] (being) by τε [te] and like Col. 1:17 in idea. The newer science as expounded by Eddington and Jeans is in harmony with the spiritual and personal conception of creation here presented.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Heb 1:3.

Your belief here is not biblical

Scripture is showing he does not uphold sin

God does not entice anyone to sin. Temptation comes about through our own lusts.


James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

God is not upholding temptation


These are not from god

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

God is not upholding the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life



God provides a way to avoid sin

1Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

God is not upholding the inevitibility of any one particular sin

Its funny how Calvinists translate all


It never really means all unless it is helpful to a Calvinist argument

Sorry in anyones position suppresses reason, logic and common sense it would be yours.

correct there was no sin in the original 6 days of creation

 

[Presby02]

correct there was no sin in the original 6 days of creation

No one said there was. So He only sustained and upheld all things for 6 days? Why would Paul use the present tense then I wonder......

 

[Rowan]

correct there was no sin in the original 6 days of creation

Yep... it was all good

 

[civic]

So He only upheld Adam and creation 6000 years ago? Serious?

the passage is talking about upholding the universe that was created which are the category of " all things " .

nice try with your bait n switch- it doesn't work on me when you deflect like that as I'm wise to these types of diversion tactic when debating modalists, unitarians, eastern religions, catholics, jw's. mormons, calvinist etc......

 

[civic]

Yep... it was all good

Amen

 

[Presby02]

the passage is talking about upholding the universe that was created which are the category of " all things " .

nice try with your bait n switch- it doesn't work on me when you deflect like that as I'm wise to these types of diversion tactic when debating modalists, unitarians, eastern religions, catholics, jw's. mormons, calvinist etc......

Oh good. Then I'm sure you will answer my question.

Did God only uphold and sustain all things for the first 6 days of creation?

 

[civic]

Oh good. Then I'm sure you will answer my question.

Did God only uphold and sustain all things for the first 6 days of creation?

I'm not going down your rabbit trails. I alread said the all things which I backed up with scripture and theologians was the universe that contains the moon, sun, earth, stars, heavens, gravity, seasons, oxygen, etc.....

nice try

hope this helps !!!

 

[Presby02]

I'm not going down your rabbit trails. I alread said the all things which I backed up with scripture and theologians was the universe that contains the moon, sun, earth, stars, heavens, gravity, seasons, oxygen, etc.....

nice try

hope this helps !!!

LOL, Go ahead, run from your silly statement. For someone who has been doing this for 40 years you have a long way to go.


Have a good day

 

[civic]

For the readers to see what the all things are and that they relate to the creation account in Genesis 1. Because Christ is preeminent, our Creator and nothing came before Him and all things came by Him and through Him the Apostles are testifying He is God our Creator in these passages. He existed before the beginning ( creation of all things) and only God existed before all things and is the Eternal Being who made all things in Genesis 1 which is confirmed below.

Now its like I'm debating a unitarian. yikes.

Its about the creation of our universe with the meaning of all things and not your presuppositions. The context makes that abundantly clear.

Now read about the Superiority of Christ over all below.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

cf- Heb 11:3- By faith we understand that the world has been created by the word of God so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible.

Colossians 1- The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

John 1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made

1 Cor 8:6- yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

I knew what you were going to quote and knew you had no leg to stand on. Its about the creation of our universe/world to which all things pertain. Not your calvinist assumptions you have read into the text.@presby02

now run away from the text again since you avoided it last time and deflected with your question game.

lets see some exegesis of these texts from you and prove me wrong. it will never happen by you or anyone else with these passages.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

LOL, Go ahead, run from your silly statement. For someone who has been doing this for 40 years you have a long way to go.


Have a good day

calvinism takes a back seat to the Trinity and Deity of Christ. Now you are in my wheelhouse.

no running here you started a debate you have no chance of winning, an argument you cannot defend from the grammar and the context of these passages that all say the SAME THING regarding the all things- its the creation account.

end of discussion. just admit you made a mistake instead of the ad hom responses.

hope this helps !!!