The promise is not to the descendants, but to the fathers.

[jeremiah1five]

The promise to the fathers is not a promise made to any other individual, whether Christian or Jew, or anybody else.
The promise is future. Today we are merely included in a partial way into that future promise of Jeremiah 31. This promise was for the future descendants of the fathers at the return of Christ. We are included in a dark glass, partially gifted experience per 1 Corinthians 13. That’s all we get. When Jesus returns, the vail will be lifted, and the promise will finally be fulfilled.

Can't be. There is no mention of Gentiles in the covenant God makes with the House of Israel in Jeremiah 31:31-34. God's covenants first with Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's descendants also known as the children of Israel are a family covenant and with a particular people God has chosen to reveal Himself to and make Promises that all have to do with His plan of "Emmanuel" and taking out a people to Himself from the mass of humanity.
The New Covenant Scriptures of Saul, Peter, James, John, etc., all discuss the effect of Israel's Messiah on their covenants but there is no covenant made between God and any people in their writings. In the beginning of Christ building His Church, which is a continuation of the Church called the "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle, those Jews that became saved - 3000 of them - on the first day did not come immediately with an instruction manual and they had to search the Jewish Scriptures of the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets to understand this new thing their Yahweh was doing with His people. As they searched the Scriptures, they began to understand more and more of this phenomenon taking place in Israel and among the Jews.

The veil has already been lifted:

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Rom. 16:25–26.

Whatever Promises still yet to be fulfilled are all promises God had made with Israel. God has made no covenant with Gentiles, and all that is happening in the world with regard to the Holy Spirit of Promise coming upon the earth is only one aspect of the "Jewish" Covenant and has only to do with Israel.

 

[Truther]

Can't be. There is no mention of Gentiles in the covenant God makes with the House of Israel in Jeremiah 31:31-34. God's covenants first with Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's descendants also known as the children of Israel are a family covenant and with a particular people God has chosen to reveal Himself to and make Promises that all have to do with His plan of "Emmanuel" and taking out a people to Himself from the mass of humanity.
The New Covenant Scriptures of Saul, Peter, James, John, etc., all discuss the effect of Israel's Messiah on their covenants but there is no covenant made between God and any people in their writings. In the beginning of Christ building His Church, which is a continuation of the Church called the "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle, those Jews that became saved - 3000 of them - on the first day did not come immediately with an instruction manual and they had to search the Jewish Scriptures of the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets to understand this new thing their Yahweh was doing with His people. As they searched the Scriptures, they began to understand more and more of this phenomenon taking place in Israel and among the Jews.

The veil has already been lifted:

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Rom. 16:25–26.

Whatever Promises still yet to be fulfilled are all promises God had made with Israel. God has made no covenant with Gentiles, and all that is happening in the world with regard to the Holy Spirit of Promise coming upon the earth is only one aspect of the "Jewish" Covenant and has only to do with Israel.

I think we agree?

 

[jeremiah1five]

I think we agree?

We must all see the same Jesus:

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is [as He is described in Scripture.]
1 Jn 3:1–2.

We must all say the same thing as God.

 

[civic]

I think we agree?

God has 2 distinct peoples and plans with Israel and the church. The gentiles are part of the church as are those Jews who are saved and part of the body of Christ. Israel still rejects their Messiah but will return to Him at His 2nd Coming and millennial kingdom.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Truther]

God has 2 distinct peoples and plans with Israel and the church. The gentiles are part of the church as are those Jews who are saved and part of the body of Christ. Israel still rejects their Messiah but will return to Him at His 2nd Coming and millennial kingdom.

hope this helps !!!

It does. My point of the thread is that the church originates in the future, and we are included into the future church. This is all I am trying to point out. We are in a future promise and not a individual promise of our own. This future promise is to national Israel at the return of Christ.

 

[Truther]

To everyone, watching, God had the foresight before the world was made to know that Israel would reject him 2000 years ago, he made the promise to the fathers about the future …and an Israel that could not reject him at his second coming. Every one that has ever been saved, is saved into that future promise.

 

[DavidTree]

This can help

People are trying to disqualify the children of Israel from the promise, because they say that the children of Israel are not born-again as Christianity is taught by the Apostles, and Jesus. This misunderstanding is magnified by preterists etc. The fact is nobody is qualified to be saved. Only qualifications can be made by grace as we are included in the promise that was given to the fathers of Israel. More on this to come.

God has concluded ALL Jews and ALL Gentiles under sin and under death. = Romans and Galatians
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Therefore only those whom the Father calls unto YESHUA Annointed Savior can be SAVED.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me

 

[DavidTree]

It does. My point of the thread is that the church originates in the future, and we are included into the future church. This is all I am trying to point out. We are in a future promise and not a individual promise of our own. This future promise is to national Israel at the return of Christ.

The future promise is to those who are in MESSIAH and only these make up the Israel of God.

The Israel/Jerusalem that now is, is in bondage with Her children(Jews) as we see this clearly everyday.

When YESHUA Returns, HE will save the remnant of Jews who HE blesses to survive the coming onslaught of Jacob's Trouble.

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your [a]spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

 

[Truther]

God has concluded ALL Jews and ALL Gentiles under sin and under death. = Romans and Galatians
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Therefore only those whom the Father calls unto YESHUA Annointed Savior can be SAVED.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me

What I am saying is that there is no gentile fathers that the promise was to.

We are included in FUTURE Israel's promise of the Millennial reign of Christ over them.

We now, are not even in the same league as they will be, but only view it from a dark glass, partially.

 

[DavidTree]

What I am saying is that there is no gentile fathers that the promise was to.

We are included in FUTURE Israel's promise of the Millennial reign of Christ over them.

We now, are not even in the same league as they will be, but only view it from a dark glass, partially.

Good Morning,

THREE OT Promises immediately come to mind when pertaining to the Gentiles.

#1 - God's Promise to Abraham - Genesis 18:16-18 and Galatians ch3
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those(Gentiles) who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

#2 - God's Promise of a Saving Light to the Gentiles - Isaiah 49:6
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

#3 - God's Promise that His LIGHT will SAVE Gentiles - Isaiah 60:1-3
Arise, shine;
For your light has come!
And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you.
The Gentiles shall come to your light,
And kings to the brightness of your rising.

 

[Truther]

Good Morning,

THREE OT Promises immediately come to mind when pertaining to the Gentiles.

#1 - God's Promise to Abraham - Genesis 18:16-18 and Galatians ch3
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those(Gentiles) who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

#2 - God's Promise of a Saving Light to the Gentiles - Isaiah 49:6
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

#3 - God's Promise that His LIGHT will SAVE Gentiles - Isaiah 60:1-3
Arise, shine;
For your light has come!
And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you.
For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the Lord will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you.
The Gentiles shall come to your light,
And kings to the brightness of your rising.

Good morning, please read those verses again. They are regarding the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. Nearly every prophecy is about the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. You may find that fascinating.
This is what I have been getting at with the OP of this thread. It’s not about us at all in particular. It is a promise to the fathers that is portrayed throughout the old testament the prophets. It is all connected to the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. We are now in a partial experience of that. What you are reading in those verses is full blown glory of Jesus reign over the Earth.

 

[DavidTree]

Good morning, please read those verses again. They are regarding the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. Nearly every prophecy is about the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. You may find that fascinating.
This is what I have been getting at with the OP of this thread. It’s not about us at all in particular. It is a promise to the fathers that is portrayed throughout the old testament the prophets. It is all connected to the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. We are now in a partial experience of that. What you are reading in those verses is full blown glory of Jesus reign over the Earth.

Please read those passages more carefully for they are CURRENT and continuing even as we speak.

Here is your EVIDENCE = If Christ is not the LIGHT unto Salvation, then no one can be Saved.

 

[Truther]

Please read those passages more carefully for they are CURRENT and continuing even as we speak.

Here is your EVIDENCE = If Christ is not the LIGHT unto Salvation, then no one can be Saved.

Is the whole earth saved yet? It’s all of Israel saved yet? If you answered no to both, then you have to admit that those verses are about some thing bigger in the future.

 

[DavidTree]

Is the whole earth saved yet? It’s all of Israel saved yet? If you answered no to both, then you have to admit that those verses are about some thing bigger in the future.

God never promised that all men will be saved.

God did Promise that His Servant would die for the sins of the world = Opening the Door for "all men to be saved."

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:8

 

[Truther]

God never promised that all men will be saved.

God did Promise that His Servant would die for the sins of the world = Opening the Door for "all men to be saved."

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:8

Did God promise in Jeremiah 31 that some of Israel will be saved from the least to greatest or all? Did he promise that they would cease to witness to one another to know the Lord?

Did God promise that all eyes at his return will see him meaning everybody will be given brand new vision that are blind?

God will save everyone. The millennial reign is not satanic driven as today. It is the divine realm on earth, mixed and visible.

 

[Truther]

Every person in the land of Israel will be filled with the Holy Ghost simultaneously at the return of Jesus. That’s Jeremiah 31 etc.

 

[DavidTree]

Did God promise in Jeremiah 31 that some of Israel will be saved from the least to greatest or all? Did he promise that they would cease to witness to one another to know the Lord?

Did God promise that all eyes at his return will see him meaning everybody will be given brand new vision that are blind?

God will save everyone. The millennial reign is not satanic driven as today. It is the divine realm on earth, mixed and visible.

Jerimiah 31:31-34
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, [h]though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their https://biblehub.com/nkjv/jeremiah/31.htm#footnoteshearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This Scripture from Jeremiah ch31 has been FULFILLED and is CONTINUING

Hebrews 8:7-13
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins https://biblehub.com/nkjv/hebrews/8.htm#footnotesand their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[DavidTree]

Every person in the land of Israel will be filled with the Holy Ghost simultaneously at the return of Jesus. That’s Jeremiah 31 etc.

According to Scripture, when does this occur?

 

[Truther]

Jerimiah 31:31-34
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, [h]though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their https://biblehub.com/nkjv/jeremiah/31.htm#footnoteshearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This Scripture from Jeremiah ch31 has been FULFILLED and is CONTINUING

Hebrews 8:7-13
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins https://biblehub.com/nkjv/hebrews/8.htm#footnotesand their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Wrong, this is all of the promise to future Israel/Judah that the church has been included into(Heb 10:16-17)...

Hebrews 10:15-17

​

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


That's it.

Anything other than this is not ours to claim.

Believing Jer 31/Hebrews 8 is for us is replacement theology.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews 10&version=KJV

 

[Truther]

According to Scripture, when does this occur?

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.