The only true God (John 17:3) - The only Master (Jude 4)

[Fred]

John 17:3
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

a. BDAG (3rd Edition): of God in contrast to other deities, who are not real J 17:3 (alēthinos, page 43)
b. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: the one, true God, in contrast with the polytheism of the Gentiles (ginōskō, page 117).


Whenever the "true God" is used in the Bible it is always used in contradistinction with idols.

2 Chronicles 15:3, 8
(3) For many days Israel was without the true God and without a teaching priest and without law.
(8) Now when Asa heard these words and the prophecy which Azariah the son of Oded the prophet spoke, he took courage and removed the abominable idols from all the land of Judah and Benjamin and from the cities which he had captured in the hill country of Ephraim. He then restored the altar of the LORD which was in front of the porch of the LORD.

Jeremiah 10:10-11
(10) But the LORD is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting King.
At His wrath the earth quakes,
And the nations cannot endure His indignation.
(11) Thus you shall say to them, “The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.”

1 Thessalonians 1:9
For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God.

1 John 5:20-21
(20) And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
(21) Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

The Lord Jesus is not ruling out that He is God in John 17:3, but He is contrasting that the Father is the only true God in comparison with all idols.
Since the Bible teaches Lord Jesus is the properly recipient of worship in contrast to idols demonstrates He is the true God.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/jesus-is-the-lord-yhwh-in-1-corinthians-10-26-psalm-24-1-cf-deuteronomy-6-4.216/#post-3938

Master (despotēs)
Jude 4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Acts 4:24
When they heard this, they all raised their voices to God and said, Master, You are the One who made the heaven, the earth, and the sea, and everything in them. (HCSB)

There is only one who is the despotēs which every Christian has.

Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?
a. If a Unitarian affirms the Father is the only despotēs of every Christian, then that would contradict Jude 4.
b. If a Unitarian affirms the Lord Jesus is the only despotēs of every Christian, then that would contradict Acts 4:24.
c. If a Unitarian affirms both the Father and the Lord Jesus are the only despotēs of every Christian, then say good-bye to Unitarianism.

 

[APAK]

John 17:3
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

a. BDAG (3rd Edition): of God in contrast to other deities, who are not real J 17:3 (alēthinos, page 43)
b. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: the one, true God, in contrast with the polytheism of the Gentiles (ginōskō, page 117).


Whenever the "true God" is used in the Bible it is always used in contradistinction with idols.

2 Chronicles 15:3, 8
(3) For many days Israel was without the true God and without a teaching priest and without law.
(8) Now when Asa heard these words and the prophecy which Azariah the son of Oded the prophet spoke, he took courage and removed the abominable idols from all the land of Judah and Benjamin and from the cities which he had captured in the hill country of Ephraim. He then restored the altar of the LORD which was in front of the porch of the LORD.

Jeremiah 10:10-11
(10) But the LORD is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting King.
At His wrath the earth quakes,
And the nations cannot endure His indignation.
(11) Thus you shall say to them, “The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.”

1 Thessalonians 1:9
For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God.

1 John 5:20-21
(20) And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
(21) Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

The Lord Jesus is not ruling out that He is God in John 17:3, but He is contrasting that the Father is the only true God in comparison with all idols.
Since the Bible teaches Lord Jesus is the properly recipient of worship in contrast to idols demonstrates He is the true God.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/jesus-is-the-lord-yhwh-in-1-corinthians-10-26-psalm-24-1-cf-deuteronomy-6-4.216/#post-3938

Master (despotēs)
Jude 4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Acts 4:24
When they heard this, they all raised their voices to God and said, Master, You are the One who made the heaven, the earth, and the sea, and everything in them. (HCSB)

There is only one who is the despotēs which every Christian has.

Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?
a. If a Unitarian affirms the Father is the only despotēs of every Christian, then that would contradict Jude 4.
b. If a Unitarian affirms the Lord Jesus is the only despotēs of every Christian, then that would contradict Acts 4:24.
c. If a Unitarian affirms both the Father and the Lord Jesus are the only despotēs of every Christian, then say good-bye to Unitarianism.

Wow Fred, still attempting to put a round peg into a square hole.

Just remember to not Bogart those joints your keep smoking...

 

[Fred]

Wow Fred, still attempting to put a round peg into a square hole.

Wow, Apak. You dodged this question:
Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

Just remember to not Bogart those joints your keep smoking..

Pathetic personal attack. I know several people who have ruined their lives because of drugs.
But hey, your false belief can't be defended so this isn't surprising to see.

 

[Soyeong]

If the way to know Jesus was not identical to the way to know the one true God, then John 17:3 is saying that knowing the one true God is insufficient for eternal life and that we must also know a separate person in order to have eternal life, but if the way to know Jesus is identical to the way to know the one true God, then Jesus has the same identity as the one true God.

According Genesis 18:19, God's way is the way to testify about aspects of His nature such as righteousness and justice, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refuse to know Him because in 9:13 they had forsaken God's law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in testifying about those and other aspects of God's nature by obeying His law is the way to know the one true God, and the way to know Jesus, who is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey his commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to know the one true God and Jesus through delight in testifying about His nature in obedience to His law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

 

[APAK]

John 17:3 - eternal life is offered/given to a believer from the one TRUE God, Father God, through his Son whom he created for this primary purpose.

The phrase the only true God, τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν, is unique to the both the New Testament and the Greek Old Testament. An abbreviated form ὁ ἀληθινὸς θεὸς is used in one place:

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20) The two 'hims' refers back to his Father, and not his Son. We are in the Father God only because we are in his Son.

Meaning that the only TRUE God is in every true believer, through his Son (his spirit). John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20 convey the same message that the one true God, the Father, only through his Son, offers eternal life to every believer.

Isaiah uses and repeats the most grammatically emphatic phrase τὸν θεὸν τὸν ἀληθινόν:

Which shall be blessed upon the earth; for they shall bless the true God, and they that swear upon the earth shall swear by the true God. For they shall forget the first affliction, and it shall not come up into their heart. (LXX-Isaiah 65:16)

This Isaiah verse is a forerunner to John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20. They all have one thing in common said explicitly and implicitly. The Father God is the only true God and those in the future who listen to him (and thus his Son) and believe in true faith will be blessed with eternal life.

1 Corinth 8: 4-6 encapsulates the clear difference between the one true God and his Son and his Messiah for us.

(1Co 8:4) Concerning therefore the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no God but one.
(1Co 8:5) For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;
(1Co 8:6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

(RV)

(1Jn 5:13) These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.


(1Jn 5:18) We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth him, and the evil one toucheth him not.
(1Jn 5:19) We know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the evil one.
(1Jn 5:20) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Clearly, and in short context when we read 1 John 5:20 AND also verses 13, 18 and 19 we see that John and the Son of God provide us with an understanding of his Father, the only true God.

"..that we know him (who is) that is true...' in verse 20 is a long running thought and punchline that began at least in verse 18. Some would like to twist these words to simply say foul, based on the subject, Christ only in verse 20, being closest to this phrase, and not the word, God, therefore Jesus is God. The 'him' in verse 20 refers back to God and then how his Son has revealed him for us. No his Son is NOT revealing himself to us.....that would be utter nonsense!

It goes to show though how some will not be deterred in conscious or mind to stoop to any level of intellectual dishonesty to preserve their idol worship.

And then to blatantly and simplicity lay down that we only have ONE Master that inferred only ONE God is illogical circular reasoning. It depends on the translation of the words of the words master, lord, god and God, and their context they are used in.

To give only one binary option for who is the real master and therefore the real God serves only one deliberate purpose, to force God and his Son to be the same 'God'.

No, one is a god and the other is the only true God.

 

[Fred]

(1Co 8:4) Concerning therefore the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no God but one.
(1Co 8:5) For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;
(1Co 8:6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

What a long post, but you still dodged answering the question I asked you.

This isn't surprising.


The boldface above concerning this is mine:
one Lord, Jesus Christ,

Thanks for proving another passage that demonstrates Jesus is YHWH.
https://berean-apologetics.communit...-psalm-24-1-cf-deuteronomy-6-4.216/#post-3938

 

[Fred]

1. Knowing the only true God (John 17:3) = Knowing the Lord (Hebrews 8:11; cf. Jeremiah 31:34).
2. When one knows the Lord they worship Him (Isaiah 19:21; Jeremiah 24:7; cf. Jeremiah 4:1-4).
3. Paul knew the Lord in reference to the Lord Jesus (Philippians 3:8; 1 Corinthians 1:31; cf. Jeremiah 9:23-26).
4. That Paul worshiped the Lord Jesus demonstrates that he knew Him as the only true God (Romans 10:13; Ephesians 5:19; etc.)

 

[APAK]

What a long post, but you still dodged answering the question I asked you.

This isn't surprising.


The boldface above concerning this is mine:
one Lord, Jesus Christ,

Thanks for proving another passage that demonstrates Jesus is YHWH.
https://berean-apologetics.communit...-psalm-24-1-cf-deuteronomy-6-4.216/#post-3938

Well at least we agree that we need to keep things in proper perspective and not get both persons confused as being the same g(G)od then; that the Father is the only one true God and his Son is his subordinate and our Lord (authority - master) and Savior.

 

[Fred]

not get both persons confused as being the same g(G)od then

They are the same God.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

John 17:3
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

a. BDAG (3rd Edition): of God in contrast to other deities, who are not real J 17:3 (alēthinos, page 43)
b. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: the one, true God, in contrast with the polytheism of the Gentiles (ginōskō, page 117).


Whenever the "true God" is used in the Bible it is always used in contradistinction with idols.

Dear readers

Our friend @Fred tries to explain that when Jesus called Our Father "The Only True God" he did it in contradistinction to idols... to the "polytheism of the Gentiles", and not in contradistinction to Jesus.
Therefore, I suppose, Fred thinks that this exclusivity of the Father as God does not apply to Jesus.

This desperate interpretation of John 17:3 is incorrect for at least 4 reasons

First
In the time of Jesus, the worshiping of idols was not a problem in Israel. That's why, in contrast to many prophets of the ancient Israel, you don't find Jesus spending time talking against false idols, or destroying or calling to destroy shrines of idols. In the time of Jesus, the worship of One God had been firmly established. Few marginal mentionings of Beelzebu, for example, are given upon the common understanding that Beelzebub was bad, a demon, and not somebody competing for Israel's attention.

Second
In John 17:3 Jesus mentions Himself, in the very same sentence, and does not call Himself God, but the One Sent by God. So Jesus sets the contrast between His Father, "the Only and True God", and Jesus, "the One You Sent".

Third
When referring to the problem of idols among the non-Jews, Paul gives the title "God" only to the Father, while gives Jesus the title Lord, as in the time of the New Testament is common. Certainly, Paul does not mention anything about a Holy Spirit as a Person who is God.

So concerning the eating of foods that are offered in sacrifice to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For there are those who are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, as there are many gods and many lords. But for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist. And there is one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

​

Fourth
In Gethsemani, Jesus is not tempted to worship any idol or false god other than his own will. So, Jesus submits his will to the will of The One and True God, and externally prostrates face-to-earth to the One and True God... that God that, only 3 days later, Jesus would call "My God and My Father, Your God and Your Father".

​

 

[Fred]

John 17:3

​

You dodged this from the OP:

Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

 

[civic]

John 17:3
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

a. BDAG (3rd Edition): of God in contrast to other deities, who are not real J 17:3 (alēthinos, page 43)
b. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: the one, true God, in contrast with the polytheism of the Gentiles (ginōskō, page 117).


Whenever the "true God" is used in the Bible it is always used in contradistinction with idols.

2 Chronicles 15:3, 8
(3) For many days Israel was without the true God and without a teaching priest and without law.
(8) Now when Asa heard these words and the prophecy which Azariah the son of Oded the prophet spoke, he took courage and removed the abominable idols from all the land of Judah and Benjamin and from the cities which he had captured in the hill country of Ephraim. He then restored the altar of the LORD which was in front of the porch of the LORD.

Jeremiah 10:10-11
(10) But the LORD is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting King.
At His wrath the earth quakes,
And the nations cannot endure His indignation.
(11) Thus you shall say to them, “The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.”

1 Thessalonians 1:9
For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God.

1 John 5:20-21
(20) And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
(21) Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

The Lord Jesus is not ruling out that He is God in John 17:3, but He is contrasting that the Father is the only true God in comparison with all idols.
Since the Bible teaches Lord Jesus is the properly recipient of worship in contrast to idols demonstrates He is the true God.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/jesus-is-the-lord-yhwh-in-1-corinthians-10-26-psalm-24-1-cf-deuteronomy-6-4.216/#post-3938

Master (despotēs)
Jude 4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Acts 4:24
When they heard this, they all raised their voices to God and said, Master, You are the One who made the heaven, the earth, and the sea, and everything in them. (HCSB)

There is only one who is the despotēs which every Christian has.

Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?
a. If a Unitarian affirms the Father is the only despotēs of every Christian, then that would contradict Jude 4.
b. If a Unitarian affirms the Lord Jesus is the only despotēs of every Christian, then that would contradict Acts 4:24.
c. If a Unitarian affirms both the Father and the Lord Jesus are the only despotēs of every Christian, then say good-bye to Unitarianism.

yes good bye to the uni god and say Hello to the True God and Eternal Life- Jesus Christ.

 

[Fred]

Dear readers

Our friend @Fred tries to explain that when Jesus called Our Father "The Only True God" he did it in contradistinction to idols... to the "polytheism of the Gentiles", and not in contradistinction to Jesus.
Therefore, I suppose, Fred thinks that this exclusivity of the Father as God does not apply to Jesus.

This desperate interpretation of John 17:3 is incorrect for at least 4 reasons

First
In the time of Jesus, the worshiping of idols was not a problem in Israel.

See John 8:44.

Second
In John 17:3 Jesus mentions Himself, in the very same sentence, and does not call Himself God

He doesn't have to all the time.

, but the One Sent by God. So Jesus sets the contrast between His Father, "the Only and True God", and Jesus, "the One You Sent".

One Person of the Trinity affirming the other Person of the Trinity is God.
Great!

Third
When referring to the problem of idols among the non-Jews, Paul gives the title "God" only to the Father,

False.

See Titus 2:13.

Fourth
In Gethsemani, Jesus is not tempted to worship any idol or false god other than his own will. So, Jesus submits his will to the will of The One and True God, and externally prostrates face-to-earth to the One and True God... that God that, only 3 days later, Jesus would call "My God and My Father, Your God and Your Father".

​

One Person of the Trinity affirming the other Person of the Trinity is God.
Great!




Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

Christ is the only Master of every Christian, and The Father is the only God of every Christian.

"But for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist. And there is one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

What does it mean to have Christ as your only Master?
What does it mean to have The Father as your only God?

 

[Fred]

Christ is the only Master of every Christian

From the OP:

b. If a Unitarian affirms the Lord Jesus is the only despotēs of every Christian, then that would contradict Acts 4:24.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

One Person of the Trinity affirming the other Person of the Trinity is God.
Great!

It is not one person calling another person "a god".
That could be Zeus calling Hermes "You are a god"... a statement that Hermes could have replied with "You are also a god, buddy"... a statement, in turn, that could have ended with both Zeus and Hermes saying happily: "Well, we both are gods, don't we?"

In John 17:1-3 we have one Person with his own mind, named Jesus, calling another Person with his own mind, The Father, "You are the Only and True God". Therefore, no Person, no independent Mind and Agency, other than the Father, is God.

 

[Fred]

It is not one person calling another person "a god".
That could be Zeus calling Hermes "You are a god"... a statement that Hermes could have replied with "You are also a god, buddy"... a statement, in turn, that could have ended with both Zeus and Hermes saying happily: "Well, we both are gods, don't we?"

In John 17:1-3 we have one Person with his own mind, named Jesus, calling another Person with his own mind, The Father, "You are the Only and True God". Therefore, no Person, no independent Mind and Agency, other than the Father, is God.

To be the only despotēs of every Christian is the same thing as being the only true God.

Your contradiction of Acts 4:24 is noted.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

He doesn't have to all the time.

I strongly disagree.
If you believe that the Bible teaches us things, that was an enormous, unique opportunity for the author of John to make Jesus say "We are God".
Jesus was talking about eternal life... is there any other topic more important than that?
Jesus was speaking with his Father... is there any moment more intimate and true than that?
Jesus was disclosing the nature of his Father and his own nature. What else do we want?

 

[Fred]

I strongly disagree.

All the while ignoring Acts 4:24.

Try again.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

To be the only despotēs of every Christian is the same thing as being the only true God.

It is not.
It was not the same thing for Paul: "But for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist. And there is one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." (1 Corinthians 8:6)

Paul makes the difference explicit here, and then repeats the idea over and over throughout his epistles.
The person called God is the Father... by Paul, and by Jesus Himself.

Whether the term "Lord" in the interim between the use of the Tanakh and the writing of the New Testament was still applied to YHWH, as across the Tanakh, or to Jesus as Messiah, King of Israel, is a different story and has nothing to do with a supposed deity of Jesus.