The Nature of God in the Atonement

Blasphemy of the Spirit is one of several unpardonable sins like unforgiveness.
But the blasphemy against the Spirit (hē de tou pneumatos blasphēmia). Objective genitive. This is the unpardonable sin. In Mat_12:32 we have kata tou pneumatos tou hagiou to make it plainer. What is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

These Pharisees had already committed it. They had attributed the works of the Holy Spirit by whose power Jesus wrought his miracles (Mat_12:28) to the devil. That sin was without excuse and would not be forgiven in their age or in the coming one (Mat_12:32). People often ask if they can commit the unpardonable sin. Probably some do who ridicule the manifest work of God’s Spirit in men’s lives and attribute the Spirit’s work to the devil.
RWS

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Whosoever shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. There is one sin so heinous that it closes for all ages and in all worlds every door of mercy. The soul that sins it will never be revived by any Divine spring. It is no mysterious transgression to be struck upon at an unknown stage in the prodigal’s path. It is no sudden, angry blasphemy.

Whoever fears that he has committed it and prays for pardon is worlds away from it It is the sin of those who know Christ in His essence, who realize His Spirit for what He is, and who deliberately call Him unclean. The historical Christ may be misjudged. Our teachers may misrepresent Him. We may speak a word against Him without the purpose deliberately to sever our life from His. But when His Spirit—the Spirit of compassion and purity—is known and hated, then the endless alienation has begun.
J.
 
But when His Spirit—the Spirit of compassion and purity—is known and hated, then the endless alienation has begun.
So when a church seems to be full of people who seem to be angry against the concept of a God that is compassionate and kind ... it's probably a good reason to just look somewhere else?
 
So when a church seems to be full of people who seem to be angry against the concept of a God that is compassionate and kind ... it's probably a good reason to just look somewhere else?
Maybe you have not read properly or slowly.

blasphemy: Blasphemy, βλασφημια [G988], either from βλαπειν [G984], την φημην, to hurt, or blast the reputation, or from βαλλειν [G906], ταις φημαις, to smite with words, or reports, when applied to men denotes injurious speaking, or calumny, and when used in reference to God signifies speaking impiously of his nature, attributes, and works.
but: Mar_3:28-30; Luk_12:10; Act_7:51; 1Jn_5:16.
J.
 
Maybe you have not read properly or slowly.

blasphemy: Blasphemy, βλασφημια [G988], either from βλαπειν [G984], την φημην, to hurt, or blast the reputation, or from βαλλειν [G906], ταις φημαις, to smite with words, or reports, when applied to men denotes injurious speaking, or calumny, and when used in reference to God signifies speaking impiously of his nature, attributes, and works.
but: Mar_3:28-30; Luk_12:10; Act_7:51; 1Jn_5:16.
J.
Yes, I read "But when His Spirit—the Spirit of compassion and purity—is known and hated, then the endless alienation has begun."

The only way the Holy Spirit can be "known" is when He indwells us. The flesh is hostile to Him, and cannot discern. So the endless alienation you speak of would be for believers?
 
Yes, I read "But when His Spirit—the Spirit of compassion and purity—is known and hated, then the endless alienation has begun."

The only way the Holy Spirit can be "known" is when He indwells us. The flesh is hostile to Him, and cannot discern. So the endless alienation you speak of would be for believers?
Of course not!

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

J.

 
Of course not!

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

J.
Thank you for clarifying, I just read too much into it.
 
To commit blasphemy of the Spirit you have to fulfill three conditions:

1. Observe a notable miracle that you know can't be natural.
2. Be fully assured that it was done in good faith by good character, and was not demonic deception.
3. Attribute this clear miraculous work, that you know is God, to the power of Satan.

That's what the Pharisees did.
And most people can't even qualify for it.


People go really weird with this verse, and make it everything except what it actually says.
 
More on Expiation rather than propitiation in both N.T. and O.T. understanding.

Thayers
ἱλασμός
, ἱλασμοῦ, ὁ (ἱλάσκομαι);

1. an appeasing, propitiating, Vulg.propitiatio (Plutarch, de sera num. vind. c. 17; plural joined with καθαρμοι, Plutarch, Sol. 12; with the genitive of the object τῶν θεῶν, the Orphica Arg. 39; Plutarch, Fab. 18; θεῶν μῆνιν ἱλασμοῦ καί χαριστηριων δεομένην, vit. Camill. 7 at the end; ποιεῖσθαι ἱλασμόν, of a priest offering an expiatory sacrifice, 2 Macc. 3:33).
; προσοίσουσιν ἱλασμόν, for חַטָּאת, Ezekiel 44:27; περί τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν, of Christ, 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10 (κριός τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Numbers 5:8; (cf. ἡμέρα τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Leviticus 25:9); also for סְלִיחָה, forgiveness, Psalm 129:4 (); Daniel 9:9, Theod.). (Cf. Trench, § lxxvii.

1 John 2:2- Propitiation- Cambridge
The word for ‘propitiation’ occurs nowhere in N. T. but here and in 1 John 4:10; in both places without the article and followed by ‘for our sins’. It signifies any action which has expiation as its object, whether prayer, compensation, or sacrifice. Thus ‘the ram of the atonement’ (Numbers 5:8) is ‘the ram of the propitiation’ or ‘expiation’, where the same Greek word as is used here is used in the LXX. Comp. Ezekiel 44:27; Numbers 29:11; Leviticus 25:9. The LXX. of ‘there is forgiveness with Thee’ (Psalm 130:4) is remarkable: literally rendered it is ‘before Thee is the propitiation’ (ὁ ἱλασμός). So also the Vulgate, apud Te propitiatio est. And this is the idea that we have here: Jesus Christ, as being righteous, is ever present before the Lord as the propitiation. With this we should compare the use of the cognate verb in Hebrews 2:17 and cognate substantive Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:5. From these passages it is clear that in N. T. the word is closely connected with that special form of expiation which takes place by means of an offering or sacrifice, although this idea is not of necessity included in the radical signification of the word itself. See notes in all three places.

Meyer's NT Commentary

1 John 2:2. καὶ αὐτός = et ipse, idemque ille; καί is here also the simple copula, and is not to be resolved either into quia (a Lapide) or nam.

αὐτός refers back to Ἰησ. Χριστὸν δίκαιον, and the epithet δίκαιον is not to be lost sight of here; Paulus, contrary to the context, refers αὐτός to God.

ἱλασμός ἐστι] The word ἱλασμός, which is used besides in the N. T. only in chap. 1 John 4:10, and here also indeed in combination with περὶ τῶν ἁμ. ἡμῶν, may, according to Ezekiel 44:27 (= חַטָּאת), mean the sin-offering (Lücke, 3d ed.), but is here to be taken in the sense of כִּכֻּרִים, Leviticus 25:9, Numbers 5:8, and no doubt in this way, that Christ is called the ἱλασμός, inasmuch as He has expiated by His αἷμα the guilt of sin. This reference to the sacrificial blood of Christ, it is true, is not demanded by the idea ἱλασμός in itself,[84] but certainly is demanded by the context, as the apostle can only ascribe to the blood of Christ, in chap. 1 John 1:7, the cleansing power of which he is there speaking, because he knows that reconciliation is based in it. [84] In the Septuagint not only does ἱλασμός appear as the translation of the Hebrew סְלִיחָה (Psalm 129:4; Daniel 9:9), but ἱλάσκεσθαι is also used = to be merciful, to forgive (Psalm 65:4; Psalm 78:38; Psalm 79:9),—quite without reference to an offering.—The explanation of Paulus, however: “He (i.e. God) is the pure exercise of compassion on account of sinful faults,” is not justifiable, because, in the first place, God is not the subject, and secondly, the ἱλασμός of Christ is not the forgiveness itself, but is that which procures forgiveness.

Better Translations of 1 John 2:2

New American Bible
He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.

NET Bible
and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.

New Revised Standard Version
and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

New International Version
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Berean Standard Bible
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

International Standard Version
It is he who is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world's.



This Meyers commentary you use-which one is it?
 
More on Expiation rather than propitiation in both N.T. and O.T. understanding.

Thayers
ἱλασμός
, ἱλασμοῦ, ὁ (ἱλάσκομαι);

1. an appeasing, propitiating, Vulg.propitiatio (Plutarch, de sera num. vind. c. 17; plural joined with καθαρμοι, Plutarch, Sol. 12; with the genitive of the object τῶν θεῶν, the Orphica Arg. 39; Plutarch, Fab. 18; θεῶν μῆνιν ἱλασμοῦ καί χαριστηριων δεομένην, vit. Camill. 7 at the end; ποιεῖσθαι ἱλασμόν, of a priest offering an expiatory sacrifice, 2 Macc. 3:33).
; προσοίσουσιν ἱλασμόν, for חַטָּאת, Ezekiel 44:27; περί τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν, of Christ, 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10 (κριός τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Numbers 5:8; (cf. ἡμέρα τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Leviticus 25:9); also for סְלִיחָה, forgiveness, Psalm 129:4 (); Daniel 9:9, Theod.). (Cf. Trench, § lxxvii.

1 John 2:2- Propitiation- Cambridge
The word for ‘propitiation’ occurs nowhere in N. T. but here and in 1 John 4:10; in both places without the article and followed by ‘for our sins’. It signifies any action which has expiation as its object, whether prayer, compensation, or sacrifice. Thus ‘the ram of the atonement’ (Numbers 5:8) is ‘the ram of the propitiation’ or ‘expiation’, where the same Greek word as is used here is used in the LXX. Comp. Ezekiel 44:27; Numbers 29:11; Leviticus 25:9. The LXX. of ‘there is forgiveness with Thee’ (Psalm 130:4) is remarkable: literally rendered it is ‘before Thee is the propitiation’ (ὁ ἱλασμός). So also the Vulgate, apud Te propitiatio est. And this is the idea that we have here: Jesus Christ, as being righteous, is ever present before the Lord as the propitiation. With this we should compare the use of the cognate verb in Hebrews 2:17 and cognate substantive Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:5. From these passages it is clear that in N. T. the word is closely connected with that special form of expiation which takes place by means of an offering or sacrifice, although this idea is not of necessity included in the radical signification of the word itself. See notes in all three places.

Meyer's NT Commentary

1 John 2:2. καὶ αὐτός = et ipse, idemque ille; καί is here also the simple copula, and is not to be resolved either into quia (a Lapide) or nam.

αὐτός refers back to Ἰησ. Χριστὸν δίκαιον, and the epithet δίκαιον is not to be lost sight of here; Paulus, contrary to the context, refers αὐτός to God.

ἱλασμός ἐστι] The word ἱλασμός, which is used besides in the N. T. only in chap. 1 John 4:10, and here also indeed in combination with περὶ τῶν ἁμ. ἡμῶν, may, according to Ezekiel 44:27 (= חַטָּאת), mean the sin-offering (Lücke, 3d ed.), but is here to be taken in the sense of כִּכֻּרִים, Leviticus 25:9, Numbers 5:8, and no doubt in this way, that Christ is called the ἱλασμός, inasmuch as He has expiated by His αἷμα the guilt of sin. This reference to the sacrificial blood of Christ, it is true, is not demanded by the idea ἱλασμός in itself,[84] but certainly is demanded by the context, as the apostle can only ascribe to the blood of Christ, in chap. 1 John 1:7, the cleansing power of which he is there speaking, because he knows that reconciliation is based in it. [84] In the Septuagint not only does ἱλασμός appear as the translation of the Hebrew סְלִיחָה (Psalm 129:4; Daniel 9:9), but ἱλάσκεσθαι is also used = to be merciful, to forgive (Psalm 65:4; Psalm 78:38; Psalm 79:9),—quite without reference to an offering.—The explanation of Paulus, however: “He (i.e. God) is the pure exercise of compassion on account of sinful faults,” is not justifiable, because, in the first place, God is not the subject, and secondly, the ἱλασμός of Christ is not the forgiveness itself, but is that which procures forgiveness.

Better Translations of 1 John 2:2

New American Bible
He is expiation for our sins, and not for our sins only but for those of the whole world.

NET Bible
and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.

New Revised Standard Version
and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

New International Version
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Berean Standard Bible
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

International Standard Version
It is he who is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world's.




Its from bible hub.
Excellent-so far-so good. May I add?
 
Before I commence-this is a fantastic piece of work you have done brother, absolutely majestic. Allow me to read carefully fist.
Thanks and I did reference all the things that were not from me. But you can proof it for me because I know you are good at it in case I missed one. Thanks brother.

Its been an ongoing study of mine for the past 4 plus years. I'm sure I will be adding to the points with more reference material as I continue the study. Who knows it may become a book at some point.
 
Thanks and I did reference all the things that were not from me. But you can proof it for me because I know you are good at it in case I missed one. Thanks brother.

Its been an ongoing study of mine for the past 4 plus years. I'm sure I will be adding to the points with more reference material as I continue the study. Who knows it may become a book at some point.
OK-here is what I am going to do-God willing-since I have a handle on the morphologies of both Hebrew and Greek-no boasting-I am going to post -for every Scripture reference Dr. Utley-if that is fine with you, and if that is OK, this is where I am going to be-for a looong time brother-
Good?
Johann.
 
OK-here is what I am going to do-God willing-since I have a handle on the morphologies of both Hebrew and Greek-no boasting-I am going to post -for every Scripture reference Dr. Utley-if that is fine with you, and if that is OK, this is where I am going to be-for a looong time brother-
Good?
Johann.

Soon we will have Utley's entire commentary here.

Fine by me. :)
 
I didn't say I held to every word. The point of the song is that My God died for me. :) If that doesn't demonstrate Gods great love for sinners, what does ?

Yeah, a human nature attached to your God died for you. 😆

Who didn't suffer any of your punishment for sin or wrath. 😂

While he remained untouched in complete glory and peace. 🤣


WOW, WHAT A SACRIFICE.

Abracadabra!!!
 
Soon we will have Utley's entire commentary here.

Fine by me. :)
Well-he is a "unknown factor" but the Lord through the Holy Spirit led me to him and his team-I am also familiar with the Underground Church-doing an amazing work to get Bibles to people who have nothing-
An aside brother-Utley is not a commentary-

This is a study guide commentary, which means that you are responsible for your own interpretation of the Bible. Each of us must walk in the light we have. You, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit are priority in interpretation. You must not relinquish this to a commentator.

Shalom
Johann.
 
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