Christ's Finished Atonement or Christ's Failure Atonement

[Kermos]

According to 2 Cor 5:18-19, the purpose of the atonement was singular: to reconcile the world to God so God could not count men’s sins against them.

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

This is the gospel message, the message of reconciliation!

Doug

Your post does nothing to change the following:

You conveniently leave out confession and repentance from your equation. They have to happen before forgiveness can happen. The cause of reconciliation is the whole process in order: atonement, God not counting men’s sins against them, conviction of sin, confess and repentance of sin, forgiveness of those sins, and the Holy Spirit entering the heart of man making him spiritually alive and one with God. That is the logical order according to Scripture.


Doug

You leave out that God imparts repentance inside of man - as explained to you according to Holy Scripture in the very post to which you replied:

We children of God repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25), and the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18), so clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward).
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Oh, look, you failed to judge what is right (Luke 12:57) with your "You conveniently leave out confession and repentance".

Christ's finished atonement includes forgiveness of sin because this is precisely what Holy Spirit inspired John wrote with "He is the atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world" (1 John 2:2), so your separation of forgiveness from atonement fails both spiritually and logically.

Your "The cause of reconciliation is the whole process in order: atonement, God not counting men’s sins against them, conviction of sin, confess and repentance of sin, forgiveness of those sins, and the Holy Spirit entering the heart of man making him spiritually alive and one with God" very badly places in last place that which is in first place according to the Truth (John 14:6) because the Christ of us Christians says the first place is "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) bringing the Life (John 14:6) into the new man which includes Christ's finished atonement securing the new man's forgiveness of sin thus the new man reconciled as at one with God (look at the last 3 words of yours quoted, there, too, where you put the first as the last).

You still have people like Nancy of the world who died and goes to hell being atoned for by Christ, so you cling to Christ's failure atonement (see the opening post).
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[TibiasDad]

TibiasDad, God causes me to post indicating my belief in Christ,

God doesn’t “cause” you to post. He allows you to post. If God causes us to post, then he causes me to post too, which means that God causes one of us to post a falsehood.

so you bear false witness such as "you are a universalist".

I said “If forgiveness is achieved by the atonement itself, aside from belief, confession and repentance”, which is what you have argued for, “then the whole world is saved,” because the atonement means forgiveness is accomplished, and thus the whole world is necessarily saved, “and you are a universalist!”

That is the logical conclusion of your argument.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You leave out that God imparts repentance inside of man - as explained to you according to Holy Scripture in the very post to which you replied:

Not irresistibly! God grants us to repent, which is an act of grace, but he does not make us repent irresistibly. He gives us the acceptance of our repentance, which he does not have to accept.

Doug

 

[Kermos]

@TibiasDad, you confusedly collided your first place "atonement" (which indicates the state of being "at one" with God) with your last place of "one with God" within your "The cause of reconciliation is the whole process in order: atonement, God not counting men’s sins against them, conviction of sin, confess and repentance of sin, forgiveness of those sins, and the Holy Spirit entering the heart of man making him spiritually alive and one with God", so you produced another spiritual error.

(You neglected to post a reply directly to post #66 which was the second of five posts about your "order of reconciliation", so this post maintains sequence.)

You still have people like Nancy of the world who died and goes to hell being atoned for by Christ, so you cling to Christ's failure atonement (see the opening post).

 

[Kermos]

False, I have always said clearly that the Holy Spirit’s purpose was, in part, to convict the world of sin! I have never denied this. Stop creating straw men to argue against me!

Doug

Look at your incredibly wrong way of putting "conviction of sin" well in advance of "the Holy Spirit entering the heart of man" within your "order of reconciliation" which you publicly posted "The cause of reconciliation is the whole process in order: atonement, God not counting men’s sins against them, conviction of sin, confess and repentance of sin, forgiveness of those sins, and the Holy Spirit entering the heart of man making him spiritually alive and one with God" (proof post #67).

Lord Jesus Christ says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you" (John 14:16-17)

Either your "False" is anti-truth, or you are incredibly spiritually confused, or both.

A valid point is that the Holy Spirit is in a person at the time the person is convicted of sin which demolishes your "order of reconciliation".

You still have people like Nancy of the world who died and goes to hell being atoned for by Christ, so you cling to Christ's failure atonement (see the opening post).

 

[Kermos]

What greater sin than despising the sacrifice Christ made for all of us. Such is hell worthy!

Doug

See, you have Christ's failure atonement for people like Nancy (see the original post) in hell. Your first paragraph conveys such which is the point about people like Nancy (see the original post) who think nothing of the atonement/sacrifice Christ offered to God, see the closing paragraph of the post to which you replied, below.

You conveniently leave out confession and repentance from your equation. They have to happen before forgiveness can happen. The cause of reconciliation is the whole process in order: atonement, God not counting men’s sins against them, conviction of sin, confess and repentance of sin, forgiveness of those sins, and the Holy Spirit entering the heart of man making him spiritually alive and one with God. That is the logical order according to Scripture.


Doug

There is so much incredibly wrong with your "The cause of reconciliation is the whole process in order: atonement, God not counting men’s sins against them, conviction of sin, confess and repentance of sin, forgiveness of those sins, and the Holy Spirit entering the heart of man making him spiritually alive and one with God" that it requires this another post.

You have conviction of sin outside of the Holy Spirit, yet the Christ of us Christians says "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8).

Your "reconciliation process order" is wrong.

(This post is related with post #63)

You still have people like Nancy of the world who died and goes to hell being atoned for by Christ, so you cling to Christ's failure atonement (see the opening post).
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[TibiasDad]

Your "reconciliation process order" is wrong.

Then what is the right order according to you?

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You still have people like Nancy of the world who died and goes to hell being atoned for by Christ, so you cling to Christ's failure atonement (see the opening post).

The purpose of the atonement, according to scripture, was to reconcile the world to the Father. That’s what happened, so Christ did not fail! The atonement gave the Father the means to not count men’s sins against them. That happened, so Christ did not fail!

Doug