Christ's Finished Atonement or Christ's Failure Atonement

[Bobby Walker]

@Administrator
Sorry, I'll clean up my act.

Same here. Let me get my dust mop out.

 

[Bobby Walker]

I have heard that kind of behavior called "Giving Jesus a "blackeye" meaning making Christianity look bad. Like any guests the are not saved come here and read us doing 1d. bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering. It's just not a good testimony.

Right on, I've heard that before.

 

[Kermos]

Also let's stop with the rude name calling of Calvinists or Arminian posters.

Rules List:

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1b.No abusive, insulting, or derogatory language. (Colossians 3:5, 8)

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

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2c. Do not discuss other posters.

I'm sorry.

If you perceive me violating any of those, then please let me know - as you already did with 2c.

 

[Kermos]

I believe it's everyone ever born. But not everyone will choose to believe in Jesus and accept His free gift of salvation.

Intertwined inside of your statements of "I believe it's everyone ever born" (about atonement) and "But not everyone will choose to believe in Jesus and accept His free gift of salvation" (about salvation), you detached atonement from salvation in your explanation, after which you left atonement as everyone everywhere in all time on this current Earth but you limited your focus down to only people who have salvation. You broke the classes of people about whom you were talking because when you changed your focus to salvation then you left Christ's atonement in a state of failure for people like "Nancy of the world".

You switched from atonement over to salvation, then you tried to use your wrongly shifted argument for salvation to address the specific point about atonement.

You believe that Christ's atonement applies to everybody everywhere in all time (the whole world) which means that you believe Christ atoned for people in hell. See the opening post in this thread.

I believe that Christ's atonement applies to only the people whom Christ chooses (the whole world) which means I believe Christ atoned exclusively to people Christ places in the Kingdom of Heaven.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world
(1 John 2:2)

you did not choose Me, but I chose you
(John 15:16)

I chose you out of the world
(John 15:19, includes atonement)
​

The Word of God is Truth (John 14:6).

In Christ,
Kermos

 

[Bobby Walker]

Post in thread 'Christ's Finished Atonement or Christ's Failure Atonement'

Yesterday at 7:40 AM

Why don't you answer the following instead of bringing up an off-topic post? You have Jesus failing in His mission as shown in the following.



Intertwined inside of your statements of "He made atonement for" (about atonement) and "whosoever would believe in Him" (about salvation), you detached atonement from salvation in your explanation, after which you left atonement as everyone everywhere in all time but you limited your focus down to only people who have salvation. You broke the classes of people about whom you were talking because when you changed your focus to...

• Obadiah

 

[Bobby Walker]

See post
#197

 

[Bobby Walker]

My concern about atonement and salvation is the two are often expressed with the idea of a non-particular atonement. The first is universalism, the idea that everyone will be saved. “If it is unlimited in an absolute sense, then an atonement has been made for every person’s sins. . . . It seems to follow from the idea of unlimited atonement that salvation is universal

The atonement, so the argument goes to limited atonement.

But then you have another form of the problem in the failure to distinguish between an objective atonement that entailed a transaction between the Father and the Son, and a subjective appropriation of that atonement. The former is universal, the latter is limited to those who exercise faith.

It is precisely the lumping together of the objective and subjective components of the atonement that artificially creates this dilemma.

 

[Kermos]

I could not find Hell on a world map, so it must not be part of (the whole world)

Hell is a real thing.

“The priest who is anointed and ordained to succeed his father as high priest is to make atonement. He is to put on the sacred linen garments and make atonement for the Most Holy Place, for the tent of meeting and the altar, and for the priests and all the members of the community.” — Leviticus 16:32-33

In Christianity, atonement refers to the needed reconciliation between sinful mankind and the holy God. This reconciliation is possible through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, as expressed in Romans 3:25, Romans 5:11, and Romans 5:19. Atonement is the Bible’s central message.

In Christianity, the belief that Jesus atoned for our sins means his death on the cross paid the penalty for humanity's sins, reconciling people with God and eternal life to those who believe. Christians believe this sacrifice of his life was a ransom for all humankind, satisfying divine justice and offering a way for people to be forgiven, cleansed from sin, and achieve eternal life.

Key aspects of the atonement is our sins debt is paid in full.

A substitutionary sacrifice:
Jesus died in the place of sinners, taking on the punishment and wrath of God for sin.

Paid in full:
His death is considered a complete payment for sins, meaning no further sacrifices are needed.

Reconciliation with God:
Because of this act, those who have faith in Jesus can be reconciled with God and no longer be separated from him due to sin.

Righteousness and forgiveness:
The atonement provides the righteousness of Christ to believers, leading to forgiveness of sins and a state of being considered righteous in God's sight.

Resurrection and new life:
Jesus' resurrection after his death proves that he conquered death and offers the hope of a new, eternal life to those who believe.

Post in thread 'Christ's Finished Atonement or Christ's Failure Atonement'

Yesterday at 7:40 AM

Why don't you answer the following instead of bringing up an off-topic post? You have Jesus failing in His mission as shown in the following.



Intertwined inside of your statements of "He made atonement for" (about atonement) and "whosoever would believe in Him" (about salvation), you detached atonement from salvation in your explanation, after which you left atonement as everyone everywhere in all time but you limited your focus down to only people who have salvation. You broke the classes of people about whom you were talking because when you changed your focus to...

• Obadiah

"Thus the priest shall make atonement for him in regard to his sin, and he will be forgiven" (Leviticus 4:26).

Leviticus 4:26 is the first verse in the Bible specifically mentioning "[]", "making", "atonement", "forgiven", and "sin".

See, the atonement results inb]priest[/b forgiven sin.

Leviticus 4:26 does not state "potentially forgiven sin".

In your post, you start off with atonement with "atonement refers to the needed reconciliation between sinful mankind and the holy God" then you finish off with potential atonement being dependent upon belief "eternal life to those who believe".

In the middle of your post, you transition into a potential atonement with your "offering a way for people to be forgiven"; in other words, you switched from atonement to salvation and then you argued from the perspective of salvation in order to limit atonement.

Atonement leads to certainly absolute forgiveness of sin as can be seen in Leviticus 4:26 and "He is the atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world" (1 John 2:2).

@Bobby Walker, please reply or tag me in order to indicate you are addressing me otherwise it's easy to miss your posts.

According to your belief, @Obadiah and @Bobby Walker, you have people like Nancy of the world (see the opening post) receiving Christ's atonement which leads to certainly absolute forgiveness of sin then off to hell after she dies, so Christ's atonement failed to satisfy the Holy God.