The mediocrity of Unitarianism. Where are the "John the Beloveds" in Unitarianism?

[praise_yeshua]

I can honestly say that I've never meet a Unitarian that I believed really loved Jesus Christ to any great degree. There are no "John the Beloveds" to be found in Unitarianism. None.

To me, Jesus Christ to a Unitarian is nothing more than a "means to an end". The only reason I believe Unitarians even mention Jesus Christ is because of their "unexplained" desire to "bring down Jesus". After all, they don't mind claiming Jesus is an idol.

If you read the Scripture to any length you will find John The Beloved "idolizing" Jesus at most every turn. Even to the point of bringing out Peter's Jealousy.

Joh 21:20 Peter turned around and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them. (This was the disciple who had leaned back against Jesus’ chest at the meal and asked, “Lord, who is the one who is going to betray you?”)
Joh 21:21 So when Peter saw him, he asked Jesus, “Lord, what about him?”
Joh 21:22 Jesus replied, “If I want him to live until I come back, what concern is that of yours? You follow me!”

Where are the real Jesus lovers in Unitarianism. The people like Fanny Crosby's that wrote "Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine. Oh what a foretaste of Glory Divine".

All you Unitarians that claim you love Jesus.... Please tell us all how you love Him "so much" without making Jesus an idol by your own standards?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

All you Unitarians that claim you love Jesus.... Please tell us all how you love Him "so much" without making Jesus an idol by your own standards?

That's an extremely important question.
I think it is a corollary or complement of the question I did in the other thread for Trinitarians: With which specific actions do you show that you worship Jesus?

Both questions are sharp and challenging.
I would beg you to admit both questions/answers in parallel in your thread. I think it will make it even more interesting.

My guess (which may be wrong) is that whatever Unitarians can answer to your question, will be pretty similar to whatever Trinitarians can answer to my question.

 

[mikesw]

I can honestly say that I've never meet a Unitarian that I believed really loved Jesus Christ to any great degree. There are no "John the Beloveds" to be found in Unitarianism. None.

. . .

All you Unitarians that claim you love Jesus.... Please tell us all how you love Him "so much" without making Jesus an idol by your own standards?

That is an interesting point about unitarians not loving Jesus. Are you talking about your experience when bumping into them at various physical places? I have at times felt like certain Christians reflected the glory of Christ. There other religious groups where people seemed plastic or off in some way.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's an extremely important question.
I think it is a corollary or complement of the question I did in the other thread for Trinitarians: With which specific actions do you show that you worship Jesus?

Both questions are sharp and challenging.
I would beg you to admit both questions/answers in parallel in your thread. I think it will make it even more interesting.

My guess (which may be wrong) is that whatever Unitarians can answer to your question, will be pretty similar to whatever Trinitarians can answer to my question.

I'll come back to this. Need to take a break.....

I appreciate you actually embracing this topic.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That is an interesting point about unitarians not loving Jesus. Are you talking about your experience when bumping into them at various physical places? I have at times felt like certain Christians reflected the glory of Christ. There other religious groups where people seemed plastic or off in some way.

Primarily consuming their teachings and what they say. I believe our "word choices" are an expression of who we are. I've driven my children crazy over properly expressing themselves relative to how they "feel". I demand they speak freely and openly about problems and disagreements. It is so very rare to find such anymore. People tend to hide who they really are from others because they desire other's approval. This is so "rooted" in our society that I believe most people are hiding in most every conversation they have.

In person, I'm generally very agreeable unless I really get to know someone. I do this to avoid open conflict. My Father in law once "slapped" me in a "knee jerk" reaction to a theological debate we were having. I've had others threaten me with physical harm for challenging them.

Human beings don't like to be challenged. It is important to them to be seen as being better than what they actually are.

 

[DavidTree]

That's an extremely important question.
I think it is a corollary or complement of the question I did in the other thread for Trinitarians: With which specific actions do you show that you worship Jesus?

Both questions are sharp and challenging.
I would beg you to admit both questions/answers in parallel in your thread. I think it will make it even more interesting.

My guess (which may be wrong) is that whatever Unitarians can answer to your question, will be pretty similar to whatever Trinitarians can answer to my question.

What's a "trinitarian"???

 

[synergy]

I can honestly say that I've never meet a Unitarian that I believed really loved Jesus Christ to any great degree. There are no "John the Beloveds" to be found in Unitarianism. None.

To me, Jesus Christ to a Unitarian is nothing more than a "means to an end". The only reason I believe Unitarians even mention Jesus Christ is because of their "unexplained" desire to "bring down Jesus". After all, they don't mind claiming Jesus is an idol.

If you read the Scripture to any length you will find John The Beloved "idolizing" Jesus at most every turn. Even to the point of bringing out Peter's Jealousy.

Joh 21:20 Peter turned around and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them. (This was the disciple who had leaned back against Jesus’ chest at the meal and asked, “Lord, who is the one who is going to betray you?”)
Joh 21:21 So when Peter saw him, he asked Jesus, “Lord, what about him?”
Joh 21:22 Jesus replied, “If I want him to live until I come back, what concern is that of yours? You follow me!”

Where are the real Jesus lovers in Unitarianism. The people like Fanny Crosby's that wrote "Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine. Oh what a foretaste of Glory Divine".

All you Unitarians that claim you love Jesus.... Please tell us all how you love Him "so much" without making Jesus an idol by your own standards?

I agree. Look at what slandering comments we get against our Lord and God Jesus from our unitarian colleagues:

Thus we have proof that Jesus was drawn away of his own lust.

What possesses people to say such slanderous remarks???

 

[civic]

I agree. Look at what slandering comments we get against our Lord and God Jesus from our unitarian colleagues:

What possesses people to say such slanderous remarks???

@Runningman that is blasphemous to say that about Jesus

Since lust is sin he is accusing Jesus of being a sinner and calling Him a liar and Gods word a lie since nowhere does it say or imply Jesus lusted.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

What's a "trinitarian"???

The best response should come from a Trinitarian friend.
Mine can be biased.
Still, to address your question, let me share two informal definitions of Trinitarians and Unitarians that are at the basis of my personal bias:
the fun one and the tragic one.

THE FUN DEFINITION
A Trinitarian is a smart person who believes that God has three minds.
A Unitarian is a smart person who believes that God has one mind.

THE TRAGIC DEFINITION
A Trinitarian is a confused person who believes that Unitarians do not love Jesus
A Unitarian is a confused person who believes that Trinitarians practice idolatry

 

[Runningman]

I agree. Look at what slandering comments we get against our Lord and God Jesus from our unitarian colleagues:

What possesses people to say such slanderous remarks???

Jesus was tempted in every way as we are:

Hebrews 4​

15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.​

James said temptation is being drawn away by one's own lusts:

James 1​

14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.​

On the other hand, God cannot be tempted with sin:

James 1​

13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:​

There's your proof that Jesus isn't God and that Jesus is a real man after all.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman that is blasphemous to say that about Jesus

Since lust is sin he is accusing Jesus of being a sinner and calling Him a liar and Gods word a lie since nowhere does it say or imply Jesus lusted.

Just repeating what the Bible says. Say what you wish. I am not going to stop being vocal about the Bible no matter how slanderous you all get.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus was tempted in every way as we are:

Hebrews 4​

15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.​

James said temptation is being drawn away by one's own lusts:

James 1​

14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.​

On the other hand, God cannot be tempted with sin:

James 1​

13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:​

There's your proof that Jesus isn't God and that Jesus is a real man after all.

It might be bad if you understood scripture. Then you might make real arguments.

The context of Ja 1:13 shows that God is immune from the influence or inclination to evil such that he would then lead a man into evil temptation. Your argument is inane. It is obvious that Jesus in his incarnation was tempted by Satan but obviously not influenced or inclined to accept the evil requests. Again, you show bad logic but you keep on trudging along with it anyhow.
I guess we will see you pop up with this same argument next week. short memory and all.

 

[synergy]

It might be bad if you understood scripture. Then you might make real arguments.

The context of Ja 1:13 shows that God is immune from the influence or inclination to evil such that he would then lead a man into evil temptation. Your argument is inane. It is obvious that Jesus in his incarnation was tempted by Satan but obviously not influenced or inclined to accept the evil requests. Again, you show bad logic but you keep on trudging along with it anyhow.
I guess we will see you pop up with this same argument next week. short memory and all.

Correct. A temptation was attempted by Satan on Jesus but that went absolutely nowhere. Jesus possesses human will but he never used it in a gnomic way or sense, as us numbskulls sometimes do.

 

[Runningman]

It might be bad if you understood scripture. Then you might make real arguments.

The context of Ja 1:13 shows that God is immune from the influence or inclination to evil such that he would then lead a man into evil temptation. Your argument is inane. It is obvious that Jesus in his incarnation was tempted by Satan but obviously not influenced or inclined to accept the evil requests. Again, you show bad logic but you keep on trudging along with it anyhow.
I guess we will see you pop up with this same argument next week. short memory and all.

So you disagree with the Bible when it says Jesus was tempted and then James defines temptation as being drawn away by one's own lusts?

 

[Runningman]

Correct. A temptation was attempted by Satan on Jesus but that went absolutely nowhere. Jesus possesses human will but he never used it in a gnomic way or sense, as us numbskulls sometimes do.

So Jesus wasn't tempted despite the Bible saying he was tempted?

Obviously, Jesus was tempted. He was offered the things he could have possibly wanted. One of them being food, something he was for sure desiring after fasting a long time. The other one may have been power, glory, etc. The devil knew what he wanted, but the devil doesn't directly tempt people, but rather puts in front of them the things they want. People are tempted by the things they desire already.

 

[synergy]

So Jesus wasn't tempted despite the Bible saying he was tempted?

Obviously, Jesus was tempted. He was offered the things he could have possibly wanted. One of them being food, something he was for sure desiring after fasting a long time. The other one may have been power, glory, etc. The devil knew what he wanted, but the devil doesn't directly tempt people, but rather puts in front of them the things they want. People are tempted by the things they desire already.

A temptation was attempted by satan but Jesus never succumbed to it. It is false for you to say the following, in fact it's downright blasphemous:

Thus we have proof that Jesus was drawn away of his own lust.

 

[mikesw]

So you disagree with the Bible when it says Jesus was tempted and then James defines temptation as being drawn away by one's own lusts?

like usual, you do not follow nuance or even basic English. That makes you a disaster when trying to interpret scripture.

Does someone have to explain each and every verse to you? And this happens while you fail to give an explanation of the meaning of John 1. So you are either not able to or you are being evasive.

If someone feels tempted to follow their lusts, they follow it of their struggle without God prompting them to do evil -- even if they say that is what is happening to them. That is a temptation from within.

Jesus was tempted from outside. Jesus did not say he was tempted (inclined but resisted) to follow Satan's propositions.

So you have to work on your logic and learn to detect nuances.

 

[Runningman]

A temptation was attempted by satan but Jesus never succumbed to it. It is false for you to say the following, in fact it's downright blasphemous:

The Bible says he was tempted. It was a competed action. No suggestion that the temptation was an attempt.

Matthew 4
1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

 

[Runningman]

like usual, you do not follow nuance or even basic English. That makes you a disaster when trying to interpret scripture.

Does someone have to explain each and every verse to you? And this happens while you fail to give an explanation of the meaning of John 1. So you are either not able to or you are being evasive.

If someone feels tempted to follow their lusts, they follow it of their struggle without God prompting them to do evil -- even if they say that is what is happening to them. That is a temptation from within.

Jesus was tempted from outside. Jesus did not say he was tempted (inclined but resisted) to follow Satan's propositions.

So you have to work on your logic and learn to detect nuances.

You're rejecting what the Scripture says because it proves Jesus isn't God. Hello. God cannot be tempted and Jesus can be tempted. How can that not be clear? It's sola scriptura even. This isn't even theology, a doctrine, or a denominational teaching. This is a disaster on your part.

To prove it, read Hebrews 4:15 again. Jesus was tempted in all points "AS WE ARE." Yes sir he was. The way we are tempted is by own our lusts. Seeing it now?

Hebrews 4
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

James 1
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

[synergy]

The Bible says he was tempted. It was a competed action. No suggestion that the temptation was an attempt.

Matthew 4
1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Satan clearly attempted to tempt Jesus. Was his attempt successful? According to your words below, would you say yes?

Thus we have proof that Jesus was drawn away of his own lust.