The map of calvinism

[civic]

Yeah and I think we can rightly tell them they are hindering God and exhort them to stop it. I feel what a tragedy it'd be for some to hear him say at the time of accounting this is what you did. We won't even talk if this is a heaven or hell issue but just to go through eternity even if saved by having heard you were a hinderance to his message.....I trust and hope many will depart from Calvinistic thinking today.

One cannot say out of one side of their mouth I believe tulip and out of the other side say the can share the gospel with everyone. The honest calvists will realize they have a contradiction with tulip and the gospel. It makes the great commission the great omission.

 

[Rockson]

. It makes the great commission the great omission.

That's a good way to describe Calvinism. The Great Omission.

 

[Presby02]

Not true… seeking doesn’t require grace, acceptance of the effort to seek does. An adulterous husband can seek to come back home to his wife, but she is under no obligation to let him. The will of the husband is not the issue, the will of the offended party, the will of the wife is in complete control and has the only effectual power to reconcile the relationship.

That the woman expresses her willingness to be sought after is gracious, but the man’s capacity to want to come back requires no grace at all.

This is the reason that “works” can never save; God cannot be obligated by anyone to save. It is only his prerogative to forgive, not ours to demand!

Doug

No? So grace is not necessary for you to seek and be saved? I find this position abhorrent.

You take your very next breath by the grace of God. The God who sustains all things.

"No man seeks after God", scripture. The Arminian/Provisionist, but some do.

 

[Presby02]

But all men can seek God when it comes to their ability. Let's read Acts 17: 26,27

From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. Acts 17: 26,27

It's states THEY could seek him .....not just some.....and it says he's not far from each one of us.....if one is going to say that's not a universal statement applying to all they've left the proper use of language.

Again, as explained, ability does not equate to desire.

It also states "no man seeks after God". It never says but some do.

 

[civic]

Again, as explained, ability does not equate to desire.

It also states "no man seeks after God". It never says but some do.

it says of the same ones that do not seek God

1- mouths full of cursing
2- swift to shed blood

so does everyone that does not seek God curse and shed blood ?

OOPS

NEXT.........

its so easy to refute your unbiblical claims and assertions/presumptions

Romans 3- the Context

There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes

 

[Rockson]

Again, as explained, ability does not equate to desire.

It also states "no man seeks after God". It never says but some do.

So just look at where your belief is taking you.

So you would have it that God carries out a certain action....he separated them from place to place (as seen described in Acts 17:26 to create the best possibly scenario whereby they could seek him without the ungodliness of others hindering them but then says none of them have desire to serve me anyway so all what I just did in separating them was just me fooling around? I didn't have any reason to do it and it's not going to make any difference anyway?

 

[Presby02]

it says of the same ones that do not seek God

1- mouths full of cursing
2- swift to shed blood

so does everyone that does not seek God curse and shed blood ?

OOPS

NEXT.........

its so easy to refute your unbiblical claims and assertions/presumptions

Romans 3- the Context

There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes

Nope. It doesn't. What it does say is that "no man seeks after God".

Quoting the text is not explaining context.

 

[Presby02]

So just look at where your belief is taking you.

So you would have it that God carries out a certain action....he separated them from place to place (as seen described in Acts 17:26 to create the best possibly scenario whereby they could seek him without the ungodliness of others hindering them but then says none of them have desire to serve me anyway so all what I just did in separating them was just me fooling around? I didn't have any reason to do it and it's not going to make any difference anyway?

I will say it again for the slow among us, "ability does not equate to desire".

Unless you can show otherwise.

 

[civic]

Nope. It doesn't. What it does say is that "no man seeks after God".

Quoting the text is not explaining context.

rofl you heard it here first folks Romans 3:10-12 are not the same ones described in Romans 3:13-18

OMG unbelievable

talk about the blind leading the blind into a pit.

yikes

 

[Presby02]

rofl you heard it here first folks Romans 3:10-12 are not the same ones described in Romans 3:13-18

OMG unbelievable

talk about the blind leading the blind into a pit.

yikes

Never said they were or weren't. It does not say.

Here is what it does say, "no man seeks after God". OMG civic wants us to believe it actually means some do actually seek God. No man means some men. Someone inform Paul he worded the text incorrectly.

 

[civic]

Never said they were or weren't. It does not say.

Here is what it does say, "no man seeks after God". OMG civic wants us to believe it actually means some do actually seek God. No man means some men. Someone inform Paul he worded the text incorrectly.

context alert !!!!!

Paul is talking about righteousness under the law. Paul is talking about faith vs the law.

 

[Rockson]

I will say it again for the slow among us, "ability does not equate to desire".

I agree there can be some slow among us. We'll let readers decide who they might be. Don't feel to rushed though to answer back what I've asked. I know you tried to put out one answer but sense you need to maybe take more time. Take even a few days and give it more thought as I stated, no rush.

 

[civic]

Jesus refutes TD below. The Calvinists are much like the unregenerate disciples.

Jesus view of infants/children below. Notice nothing about them in sinful below but they are blessed By Jesus and He demands adults become as little children otherwise they WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM.

And anyone that causes one of these LITTLE CHILDREN TO STUMBLE WILL HAVE THIS HAPPEN TO THEM.

“If anyone causes one of these little ones-those who believe in me-to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!” (Matthew 18:6-7, NIV)

Jesus protects Children, not condemns them as you tulip teaches with TD and doomed from the womb. It’s Contra bible, Contra Jesus, Contra Truth.

I would heed Jesus many Woes regarding Children if I were a Calvinist . You will be held accountable for your false accusations against infants and children that Jesus warned His disciples about.

Matthew 18:2-5
And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 18:10
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 18:14
So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

Matthew 19:13-14
Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, “Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

Mark 9:36-37
Taking a child, He set him before them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, “Whoever receivesone child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive Me, but Him who sent Me.”

Mark 10:13-16
And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, “Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs tosuch as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.

Luke 9:47-48
But Jesus, knowing what they were thinking in their heart, took a child and stood him by His side, and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me; for the one who is least among all of you, this is the one who is great.”

Luke 18:15-17
And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”

hope this helps !!!

 

[Presby02]

context alert !!!!!

Paul is talking about righteousness under the law. Paul is talking about faith vs the law.

Category error! Audience is not context.

So. That means no man means some men?


hope this helps!!

 

[Presby02]

I agree there can be some slow among us. We'll let readers decide who they might be. Don't feel to rushed though to answer back what I've asked. I know you tried to put out one answer but sense you need to maybe take more time. Take even a few days and give it more thought as I stated, no rush.

I know who it is. Don't rush to concede which is common sense to most.

Let me repeat, ability does not equate to desire.

 

[TibiasDad]

No? So grace is not necessary for you to seek and be saved? I find this position abhorrent.

Jesus says “Seek and you will find”; the essence of Grace is not that we can seek, but that there is something to be found! Men seek for God in all kinds of ways, but often find nothing in their efforts, but to seek the right thing will result in finding it provided.

“Come to me, and you will find rest for your soul!” (Matt 11:28)


Doug

 

[Presby02]

Jesus says “Seek and you will find”; the essence of Grace is not that we can seek, but that there is something to be found! Men seek for God in all kinds of ways, but often find nothing in their efforts, but to seek the right thing will result in finding it provided.

“Come to me, and you will find rest for your soul!” (Matt 11:28)


Doug

Great. It really does not address my point though.

 

[civic]

Jesus says “Seek and you will find”; the essence of Grace is not that we can seek, but that there is something to be found! Men seek for God in all kinds of ways, but often find nothing in their efforts, but to seek the right thing will result in finding it provided.

“Come to me, and you will find rest for your soul!” (Matt 11:28)


Doug

But they can’t come in Calvinism which makes Jesus words a lie and a false hope.

 

[Presby02]

But they can’t come in Calvinism which makes Jesus words a lie and a false hope.

Actually they can when enabled by the grace of God.

 

[civic]

Actually they can when enabled by the grace of God.

wrong only some are enabled( calvinism) which makes Jesus promise for ALL/ EVERYONE to come a lie.