brightfame52
Active Member
Not in the context of Rom 8:8 This is in a Salvation context.
If you put loving mom in a salvation context, thats law keeping salvation. good luck with that
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
If you put loving mom in a salvation context, thats law keeping salvation. good luck with that
brightfame52
Active Member
Good luck with your law keeping, loving your mom in the flesh Salvation. At the day of Judgment, but lord, I loved my mom in the flesh, that counted for something
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Yep... a lot of daddys told that to their young uns.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You understand this do you? Romans 1:16 states that the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew and then to the Gentile. This verse emphasizes the importance of faith in receiving God's grace and the universal availability of salvation.
Do you understand it in the Peshitta (Aramaic)?
16For I am not ashamed of The Gospel, because it is the power of God for the life of all who believe in it, whether of The Judeans first, or of the Aramaeans.
Where it clearly states it is the power of God for the life of all who believe in it.
It does not say it is the power of God for the life of all the God predestined it says for the life of all who believe in it. Meaning by their own free will they have learned and believe.
Spin it any way you want you cannot make it say what it does not
@FreeInChrist
Romans 1:16 ~ “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation (practically speaking) to "WHO"? Only unto believers, that that God has given the power/right to believe, per John 1:11,12; Philippians 1:29, etc.
Continue on to:
Romans 1:17 ~ “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
Meaning, that the gospel within the gospel the truth of how God imputes righteousness is revealed form a person who has faith to another person who has faith! It is impossible to reveal the gospel form a person who has faith to a sinners dead in trespasses and sin ~ IMPOSSIBLE, for it is foolishness unto them per 1st Corinthians 1 where the same truth is taught.
1st Corinthians 1:18 ~ “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
Those who are born again, it is the power of God! "but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
Why preach the gospel? Let Paul tell us:
1st Corinthians 1:21 ~ “For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”
It please God, to save (in a practical sense) those that he had begotten again unto a lively hope. The preaching of the gospel is the means for God's elect practical salvation of increasing in the knowledge of the truth, thereby, our teaching and preaching must be gear toward them, not sinners who consider the gospel foolishness, we do not cast our pearls before swines~God forbid.
You and your companions have no clue what Paul is saying in Romans 1:16 ~listen very carefully and see:
Romans 1:16 ~ “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
The gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation (practically speaking) to "WHO"? Only unto believers, that that God has given the power/right to believe, per John 1:11,12; Philippians 1:29, etc.
Continue on to:
Romans 1:17 ~ “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
Meaning, that the gospel within the gospel the truth of how God imputes righteousness is revealed form a person who has faith to another person who has faith! It is impossible to reveal the gospel form a person who has faith to a sinners dead in trespasses and sin ~ IMPOSSIBLE, for it is foolishness unto them per 1st Corinthians 1 where the same truth is taught.
1st Corinthians 1:18 ~ “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
Those who are born again, it is the power of God! "but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
Why preach the gospel? Let Paul tell us:
1st Corinthians 1:21 ~ “For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”
It please God, to save (in a practical sense) those that he had begotten again unto a lively hope. The preaching of the gospel is the means for God's elect practical salvation of increasing in the knowledge of the truth, thereby, our teaching and preaching must be gear toward them, not sinners who consider the gospel foolishness, we do not cast our pearls before swines~God forbid.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
I'm a Non-Calinist (Free range Charismatic eclectic).
Atonement is definitly "Limited" even though it is potentially sufficient for all humanity. Romans 9 presents one set of data which appears to support God's intention NOT to convict everybody of their SIN (The beginning of Biblical FAITH). However humans who ARE "convicted of SIN" still have the free will to refuse it, and run back into death. I refused it several time, until the last time.
Calvinism also has the "I" (Irresistable) fantasy, which removes "Free Will" from possibility. Does God Convict EVERYBODY of SIN?? I don't know - He Convicted me several times which is all that personally matters. The rest is nothing more than "Theology".
praise_yeshua
Active Member
When you preach the Gospel is it your intent to preach it accurately so others can understand?
So... what is it I don't "Know" and that I "scoffed" at. Please go into details.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Red, this reading does not follow Paul’s argument in Romans.
In Romans 1:16, Paul is explaining why he preaches the gospel openly and without shame. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation precisely because it confronts unbelief and brings sinners to faith. If the gospel only becomes “the power of God” after a person already believes, Paul’s statement collapses in its own context.
Romans 1–3 is addressed to a mixed audience of Jews and Gentiles who are under sin, not exclusively to the regenerate. Immediately after Romans 1:16–17, Paul indicts all mankind (Romans 1:18–3:19). That makes no sense if the gospel is only meant to circulate among those already born again.
“From faith to faith” does not describe a transfer of revelation between already-regenerate people. It describes the principle of justification by faith from beginning to end. Paul himself clarifies this later in Romans 4 using Abraham, who believed while ungodly — not after regeneration.
If the gospel were only to be preached to those already born again, Paul’s missionary labors among unbelieving Jews and Gentiles would be unintelligible. Yet Paul consistently preached Christ to those who did not believe, precisely because faith comes through hearing the gospel.
Looking again at the verses you cited, none of them state that regeneration precedes faith:
- Romans 1:16 — “unto salvation to every one that believeth”
- Romans 1:17 — “from faith to faith”
- 1 Corinthians 1:18 — “unto us which are saved it is the power of God”
- 1 Corinthians 1:21 — “it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe”
Especially note 1 Corinthians 1:21: it pleased God to save them that believe — not those already saved, not those already regenerate.
Every verse you cited places faith before salvation, not salvation before faith. The gospel is God’s power unto salvation because it is the means by which God brings sinners to faith — not merely a message reserved for those already alive.
@FreeInChrist
You are like many who preach that salvation is by grace alone, and then quickly depart from that by telling sinners what they must do before they can be born again! I have listened to your teaching for over fifty plus years. So, yes I do know perfectly from whence you come from.
Why do you not go through my post as I do yours and prove me wrong? You saying I'm wrong proves not one thing. Use scriptures to disprove my teachings and to prove your position, it as simple as that.
Go back and read again what I said~I was referring to what YOU believe not what I believe!
Because that is what the scriptures teach, so why would I not agree with that? You got the first part wrong when I was speaking about what "YOU" believe.... of course I would never assert: "without a person agreeing to believe and repent, the new birth will not happen."
You are preaching to choir! I know this, you do not, nor does your companions. You will never find me being inconsistent, never.
Of course no one except @synergy and @Studyman to name a few would do so boldly.
So, what you do, which is just as evil and wicked, is that you make them co-partner. Your position and the two mentioned above are the same. Both fall under the curse of God, you need to seriously consider this fact.
It is not just an "Spirit-enablement" gift; it is a fruit of the new man that the Spirit created within God's elect at regeneration. A huge difference ~ the difference is one's a true doctrine of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the other is a fruit of a false gospel.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I might be misunderstanding you. I do believe I understand the Gospel well. I wouldn't reference what you're calling the Peshitta. There really isn't much meaningful about the "Peshitta" that is superior to any Greek source. The "Peshitta" means different things to different people. There are many Aramaic manuscripts from different sources that are slightly different. I very seldom consider a "Aramaic" reading of any sort.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
Words convicted you. The same words that convicted others. No need to appeal directly to God. Nothing different from you and a Calvinist.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You know I've been around your teachers my entire life. I know exactly what I'm saying. So don't start this nonsense with me.
There is certainly a difference between the faithless and the faithful. Belief and unbelief.
What isn't different is the power and where it exists. It exists within the words preached. Stop lying you sorry thief that seeks to steal the message away from others.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I didn't say that. I said you can't understand love without nature/natural things.
Human languages are included in those "natural things". You've never really had a detailed discussion on this topic. I can help you. Let me challenge you to properly deal with the facts of this subject.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
So where did you learn to love? Come on, lets get into this in a meaningful way.
brightfame52
Active Member
It is preached accurately. You want to go over the points of TULIP? Now you may already understand them enough to express your rejection of them But if the Gospel isnt received after hearing it and understanding it enough to reject its Truth, thats on you.
Granted if you dont understand it to some degree, you would not have rejected it and dont believe it.
brightfame52
Active Member
So what does this have to do with man being in the flesh and cannot please God in a Salvation sense ?
brightfame52
Active Member
What does that have to do with mans inability to please God while unregenrate/in the flesh ? Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Are you saying this int true and man in the flesh can please God ?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You're assuming that I'm not born of the Spirit, right?
So I asked you what is it exactly what I don't understand? You are still not providing what you believe I don't understand.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
The context of this entire conversation is about "Salvation".
Flesh alone can not please God. However, flesh isn't alone. Right?
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont know what you are, Im going back and forth with your ideas
