The Issue of Limited Atonement

[brightfame52]

Nonsense. Did you love your mother when you were born?

See a natural man in the flesh can love his natural mother. But what the natural man in the flesh cannot do is please God.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe for a man to have a loving relationship with his mom is a condition for salvation ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

@praise_yeshua


The Gospel are Tulip Truths, Gospel Doctrines clarifying Salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ. Who He died for, the elect and so forth

And those Truths come in the power of the Spirit working effectually causing the regenerated to believe.

1 Thess 2 13

13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

What is Paul Thanking God for here ?

Did you read Romans 1:16? I read about the Gospel there. I didn't see anything about "Tulip".

The Gospel itself enlightens. It IS the power of God for salvation.

 

[praise_yeshua]

See a natural man in the flesh can love his natural mother. But what the natural man in the flesh cannot do is please God.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe for a man to have a loving relationship with his mom is a condition for salvation ?

Geesh. Sure it pleases God. God requires you to love your mother even after you're saved. You can't please Him without loving your mother. You can't love God and hate your mother.

Your own existence before being born again revolves around spiritual things even though you haven't been spiritually "born from above".

 

[praise_yeshua]

What he posted is:
its as plain as the noon day sun

Rom 8:8

Rom 8:8 has nothing to do with anyones mom

You're the one actually insisting that such love is fleshly. I'm not.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

@FreeInChrist I know perfectly what you believe, the sad part is that you do not see that "you" cannot totally separate the new birth by the Spirit alone from your cooperation with the Spirit to bring this birth to fruition and without your so-called free will agreeing to believe and repent, this birth will not happen. Now, did I misrepresent you in any way? No I did not.

You said: "I do not believe the flesh, apart from the Holy Spirit, can perform spiritual acts pleasing to God."

You then said: "Scripture explicitly denies that (Rom 8:7–8), and I fully affirm that"

What the scriptures said is this, listen very carefully:

Romans 8:7,8: “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”

Do you hear what Paul is saying, I think not. All men who are still IN the flesh, or, in their natural state, cannot please God by doing any spiritual acts, such as believing, fearing, loving, repenting, etc., etc., etc.

One must be first born again, and having a nature that is created after the image of Jesus Christ before any man can please God. This is exactly what Christ taught in John 3:

John 3:3~“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Again, I know what you believe, the problem lies in the fact that "you" cannot see that faith is the result of the new birth, not the means whereby God grants regeneration and salvation from sin and condemnation. Your gospel/understanding thereof is another gospel.

Here you are close, but still in error. Your bold letters is your error. Faith is the evidence of the new birth, whether or not a person receives this matters very little. Examples: infants; those feeble minded folks who are unable to process information, and the millions of millions who have never heard of Christ's and gospel both OT and NT! Maybe more on this later.

Yes as far as receiving "the knowledge of" this blessed truth, and the comfort, peace, and joy it gives.

The gospel has no meaning, or glory to men born of Adam, it is all foolishness to them until they are quicken to life, and then at that point, they see the wisdom, power, then and only then, they glory in the mercy and grace of God given to them on the behalf of Jesus Christ's redemption work for them.

@Red Baker,
You keep saying you know what I believe, yet you continue to argue against positions I have explicitly denied. If you want to engage, please respond to what I am actually saying, not to a version of my view you’ve constructed.

Your own statements demonstrate the issue.

You first asserted that without a person agreeing to believe and repent, the new birth will not happen. Yet you then correctly affirmed Romans 8:7–8, stating that those who are in the flesh cannot perform spiritual acts such as believing or repenting.

Those two claims cannot both be true. If believing and repenting are impossible prior to regeneration, they cannot also be prerequisites for regeneration.

I have not argued that faith is meritorious, nor that the flesh produces faith apart from the Spirit. I have argued that Scripture presents faith as a real, Spirit-enabled response to the gospel, not merely a post-regeneration diagnostic that may or may not occur.

You now say faith “matters very little” and appeal to categories that bypass hearing and believing altogether. That raises far more biblical problems than it solves and directly contradicts the apostolic gospel call.

This is not a dispute about systems; it is about consistency with what the text actually says.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I know Calvin taught you this but I have certainly never read such in the Scriptures. I'll even stay in the KJV for you. Prove it.

I have read Romans 1:16.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

The Gospel is the power of God. Why are you trying to deceive others.

@praise_yeshua

Romans 1:16 is exactly on point. Paul does not describe the gospel as powerless or meaningless to the unregenerate; he calls it the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.

Whatever conclusions we draw about regeneration and faith, they must account for the apostolic claim that God uses the gospel itself as His saving instrument, not merely as a post-regeneration announcement.

 

[civic]

@praise_yeshua


The Gospel are Tulip Truths, Gospel Doctrines clarifying Salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ. Who He died for, the elect and so forth

And those Truths come in the power of the Spirit working effectually causing the regenerated to believe.

1 Thess 2 13

13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

What is Paul Thanking God for here ?

Projecting and conjecture = eisegesis

 

[civic]

Did you read Romans 1:16? I read about the Gospel there. I didn't see anything about "Tulip".

The Gospel itself enlightens. It IS the power of God for salvation.

Amen which as we see is being denied and replaced with a false gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Did you read Romans 1:16? I read about the Gospel there. I didn't see anything about "Tulip".

Thats because you dont know the Gospel. The Gospel are the contents of the letter Paul was writing Chapters 3-11 are doctrinal summations of the Gospel. What you think the Gospel is ? Just the bare statement Rom 1:16 ? No content

The Gospel itself enlightens. It IS the power of God for salvation.

And its about the Work of Christ. His Person and His work, whose it for and why. You haven't demonstrated to me that you have the slightest idea of what the Gospel of Christ is. You just run to Rom 1:16 for a safety pillow

 

[brightfame52]

You're the one actually insisting that such love is fleshly. I'm not.

You bought up mom. Has nothing to do with Rom 8:8

 

[civic]

Thats because you dont know the Gospel. The Gospel are the contents of the letter Paul was writing Chapters 3-11 are doctrinal summations of the Gospel. What you think the Gospel is ? Just the bare statement Rom 1:16 ? No content

And its about the Work of Christ. His Person and His work, whose it for and why. You haven't demonstrated to me that you have the slightest idea of what the Gospel of Christ is. You just run to Rom 1:16 for a safety pillow

Tulip is not the gospel so it’s you who is the confused one as to the meaning and definition of the gospel truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 1:16 is exactly on point. Paul does not describe the gospel as powerless or meaningless to the unregenerate;

In Pauls gospel he preaches this about man in Rom 1:18ff; Rom 3:9-20; Rom 8:8

 

[FreeInChrist]

Thats because you dont know the Gospel. The Gospel are the contents of the letter Paul was writing Chapters 3-11 are doctrinal summations of the Gospel. What you think the Gospel is ? Just the bare statement Rom 1:16 ? No content

And its about the Work of Christ. His Person and His work, whose it for and why. You haven't demonstrated to me that you have the slightest idea of what the Gospel of Christ is. You just run to Rom 1:16 for a safety pillow

I agree with praise_yeshua. Romans 3–11 expounds the gospel, but Paul himself defines it succinctly elsewhere. Pointing to Romans 1:16 isn’t reductionism—it’s following Paul’s own framing.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree with praise_yeshua. Romans 3–11 expounds the gospel, but Paul himself defines it succinctly elsewhere. Pointing to Romans 1:16 isn’t reductionism—it’s following Paul’s own framing.

The Gospel are Truths of Tulip, Rom 1:16 is followed by Pauls explanation of Salvation by which truths of tulip are brought to light

 

[brightfame52]

Geesh. Sure it pleases God. God requires you to love your mother even after you're saved.

We should love our natural relations before saved, it shows natural affection 2 Tim 3 3

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

To have natural affections for our friends and family is normal, has nothing to do with Salvation though. If you base any part of your salvation on your natural affections, you are lost, not saying you arent an elect, but at this juncture a person who bases any part of their salvation on their natural affection of loving their parents , children and so forth, are lost and in darkness.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree with praise_yeshua.

Lol thats fine with me

 

[praise_yeshua]

Thats because you dont know the Gospel. The Gospel are the contents of the letter Paul was writing Chapters 3-11 are doctrinal summations of the Gospel. What you think the Gospel is ? Just the bare statement Rom 1:16 ? No content

And its about the Work of Christ. His Person and His work, whose it for and why. You haven't demonstrated to me that you have the slightest idea of what the Gospel of Christ is. You just run to Rom 1:16 for a safety pillow

I do know the Gospel. I can read. Anyone that can read can know the Gospel.

I read Romans 1:16 decades ago. I didn't need you to explain it away. Why do you not believe Roman 1:16? Have you been enlightened? Your unbelief doesn't equal my unbelief.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You bought up mom. Has nothing to do with Rom 8:8

It has to do with flesh. You are of the flesh of your mother. Get it?

 

[praise_yeshua]

We should love our natural relations before saved, it shows natural affection 2 Tim 3 3

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

To have natural affections for our friends and family is normal, has nothing to do with Salvation though. If you base any part of your salvation on your natural affections, you are lost, not saying you arent an elect, but at this juncture a person who bases any part of their salvation on their natural affection of loving their parents , children and so forth, are lost and in darkness.

Sure it does. You don't know love at all without nature. Are living in a test tube with a laptop and wifi?

 

[brightfame52]

I do know the Gospel. I can read. Anyone that can read can know the Gospel.

I didn't say you couldn't read, you seem to read fine to me, but I said you dont know the Gospel, and when you hear it, its scoffed at.