brightfame52
Active Member
Them who are in the flesh cant please God Rom 8:8
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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synergy
Active Member
You continue to flat out contradict James and Paul. When will you believe the Bible?
(James 2:24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
(James 2:26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(Rom 2:7) indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life
Notice the word "may". If it was predetermined that they will obtain salvation then why doesn't the passage say they will obtain salvation??? Instead it says they "may". That proves that there's another conditional factor and along with hundreds of other verses proves that salvation is synergistic, not monergistic.
synergy
Active Member
So then you agree that repentance is necessary on our part and that proves that salvation is synergistic, not monergistic.
synergy
Active Member
Yes, Paul is warning his believing audience against choosing to be in the flesh rather than being in the Spirit.
Keep those synergistic verses coming!
brightfame52
Active Member
Neither of them teach salvation conditioned on works. Thats anti gospel
brightfame52
Active Member
Them who are in the flesh cant please God Rom 8:8
@FreeInChrist
When the scriptures declares no man is justified by the works of the law as far as being saved from their sins and condemnation, it means that "any work we have an active part in" in being saved from condemnation of God's law, then NO MAN is justified in this sense.
So, faith "as a condition" is a work of the Law (Matthew 23:23; John 6:28,29; and 1st John 3:23; etc.) The scriptures do say:
Galatians 3:12~“And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Faith and Law are mutually exclusive – one trusts free promises; one earns by performance. Jesus answered a young man how he could be saved according to the Law (Matthew 19:16,17). However, faith as a condition is a work of the Law Faith that is not of the Law … "is faith understood as only evidence" of God’s free justification of the ungodly by Christ, rather than the conditional or instrumental basis for it (Romans 4:5). Maybe more later on this.
Faith is the fruit of the indwelling Spirit of God performed by our new man, not our flesh.
Galatians 5:22~“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,”
Romans 8:8~“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Romans 8:7~“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed
"Faith and Law are mutually exclusive – one trusts free promises; one earns by performance. Jesus answered a young man how he could be saved according to the Law (Matthew 19:16,17). However, faith as a condition is a work of the Law Faith that is not of the Law … "is faith understood as only evidence" of God’s free justification of the ungodly by Christ, rather than the conditional or instrumental basis for it (Romans 4:5).
Nehemiah 8:8~“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”
Luke 19:9~“And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.”
Read Luke 19:1-9! Jesus went by many vessels of wrath to get to Zacchaeus, a vessel of mercy.
Of course you must see it differently, but, then again, it is not what either of us see, it is what the scriptures clearly proclaims, and in these words by Christ himself, faith is a work of the law, (in one biblical sense, I will explain myself below) just as love toward God and our neighbors, etc.
When the scriptures declares no man is justified by the works of the law as far as being saved from their sins and condemnation, it means that "any work we have an active part in" in being saved from condemnation of God's law, then NO MAN is justified in this sense.
So, faith "as a condition" is a work of the Law (Matthew 23:23; John 6:28,29; and 1st John 3:23; etc.) The scriptures do say:
Galatians 3:12~“And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Faith and Law are mutually exclusive – one trusts free promises; one earns by performance. Jesus answered a young man how he could be saved according to the Law (Matthew 19:16,17). However, faith as a condition is a work of the Law Faith that is not of the Law … "is faith understood as only evidence" of God’s free justification of the ungodly by Christ, rather than the conditional or instrumental basis for it (Romans 4:5). Maybe more later on this.
Which clear distinction I just provided!
It is folks like you who believes that the flesh apart from the indwelling Spirit of God can exercise/do/perform spiritual duties pleasing to God, a whereas the scriptures over and over again denies.
Faith is the fruit of the indwelling Spirit of God performed by our new man, not our flesh.
Galatians 5:22~“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,”
Romans 8:8~“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Romans 8:7~“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed
Again read what I said above:
"Faith and Law are mutually exclusive – one trusts free promises; one earns by performance. Jesus answered a young man how he could be saved according to the Law (Matthew 19:16,17). However, faith as a condition is a work of the Law Faith that is not of the Law … "is faith understood as only evidence" of God’s free justification of the ungodly by Christ, rather than the conditional or instrumental basis for it (Romans 4:5).
The fault lies in you not reading the word of God distinctly and then giving its proper sense, so that you can understand the reading of the scriptures.
That's what happens when folk do not practice Nehemiah 8;8; 2nd Timothy 2:15, etc.
Nehemiah 8:8~“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”
The point that should be understood is this: apart from the indwelling Spirit of God no man in his natural state has the power to believe, and if one does believe, and are able to do spiritual acts pleasing to God, then "KNOW" that person has been quicken to life by the Spirit of God in order for them do so so. Read Ephesians 1:19-2:1 and see that all men are dead in tresspasses and sins, and the same power that raised Christ from the dead, is the same power that MUST raise the sinner before they can believe, repent, and follow God. This is Paul's gospel, not mine, I just believe what I'm reading.
Actually, faith believes the report of the good news, which we teach....... that faith is "ONLY the evidence of" free justification, NOT the means to receive it! A huge difference.
Again read what I said: "Faith and Law are mutually exclusive – one trusts free promises; one earns by performance. Jesus answered a young man how he could be saved according to the Law (Matthew 19:16,17). However, faith as a condition is a work of the Law Faith that is not of the Law … "is faith understood as only evidence" of God’s free justification of the ungodly by Christ, rather than the conditional or instrumental basis for it (Romans 4:5).
Faith is commanded, and only a regenerate elect child of God can hear, obey and follow. Yet faith as a condition to be born again is another gospel. Jesus Christ "secured" the new birth for each and every child of God by his faith and obedience.
Luke 19:9~“And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.”
Read Luke 19:1-9! Jesus went by many vessels of wrath to get to Zacchaeus, a vessel of mercy.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
why dont you listen to the Holy Spirit and read allof Romans 8 and also the link I just posted to you?
Why dont you stop letting Helel guide you to wrong conclusions?
brightfame52
Active Member
This is from the Holy Spirit, He inspired it:
Them who are in the flesh cant please God Rom 8:8
synergy
Active Member
You don't believe that our salvation is based on justification, which in turn is based on faith and faith based works (James 2:24)??? Wow!
(James 2:24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
synergy
Active Member
Yes, Paul is warning his believing audience against choosing to be in the flesh rather than being in the Spirit.
You are doing a superb job in dismantling the heresy called Calvinism!
Keep those synergistic verses coming!
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Red, I want to clarify my position carefully, because you continue to attribute to me a view I do not hold.
I do not believe the flesh, apart from the Holy Spirit, can perform spiritual acts pleasing to God. Scripture explicitly denies that (Rom 8:7–8), and I fully affirm that. For clarity, the text itself states:
“Because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
I do believe that apart from the Spirit’s convicting and drawing work, no one would believe the gospel. However, Scripture consistently presents faith as a real, Spirit-enabled human response to the gospel, through which God grants regeneration and salvation, not as a post-justification diagnostic with no instrumental role.
Faith is not meritorious and is never treated as a work that earns righteousness. Scripture explicitly contrasts believing with working (Rom 4:5). A command to believe establishes obligation, not merit (1 John 3:23). Receiving a gift does not convert the gift into wages.
You repeatedly redefine “condition” as “meritorious law-work,” but Scripture does not. Faith is not the ground of justification ~ Christ alone is. Faith is the God-ordained means by which the gift of justification is received.
Scripture consistently presents the order as hearing the gospel, believing, and then receiving life and the Spirit (John 1:12–13; Gal 3:2; Eph 1:13; Acts 16:31). Reducing faith to mere evidence after regeneration empties the gospel call of its meaning and turns biblical commands into announcements.
I affirm God’s initiative, the Spirit’s indispensable work, and salvation by grace alone in Christ. What I reject is the claim that faith has no instrumental role in receiving that grace. That distinction is precisely what Paul maintains in Romans and Galatians, not what collapses them.
brightfame52
Active Member
Not a word about conditions to get savedYou don't believe that our salvation is based on justification, which in turn is based on faith and faith based works (James 2:24)??? Wow!
(James 2:24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
@FreeInChrist
You said: "I do not believe the flesh, apart from the Holy Spirit, can perform spiritual acts pleasing to God."
You then said: "Scripture explicitly denies that (Rom 8:7–8), and I fully affirm that"
What the scriptures said is this, listen very carefully:
Romans 8:7,8: “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Do you hear what Paul is saying, I think not. All men who are still IN the flesh, or, in their natural state, cannot please God by doing any spiritual acts, such as believing, fearing, loving, repenting, etc., etc., etc.
One must be first born again, and having a nature that is created after the image of Jesus Christ before any man can please God. This is exactly what Christ taught in John 3:
John 3:3~“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
@FreeInChrist I know perfectly what you believe, the sad part is that you do not see that "you" cannot totally separate the new birth by the Spirit alone from your cooperation with the Spirit to bring this birth to fruition and without your so-called free will agreeing to believe and repent, this birth will not happen. Now, did I misrepresent you in any way? No I did not.
You said: "I do not believe the flesh, apart from the Holy Spirit, can perform spiritual acts pleasing to God."
You then said: "Scripture explicitly denies that (Rom 8:7–8), and I fully affirm that"
What the scriptures said is this, listen very carefully:
Romans 8:7,8: “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Do you hear what Paul is saying, I think not. All men who are still IN the flesh, or, in their natural state, cannot please God by doing any spiritual acts, such as believing, fearing, loving, repenting, etc., etc., etc.
One must be first born again, and having a nature that is created after the image of Jesus Christ before any man can please God. This is exactly what Christ taught in John 3:
John 3:3~“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Again, I know what you believe, the problem lies in the fact that "you" cannot see that faith is the result of the new birth, not the means whereby God grants regeneration and salvation from sin and condemnation. Your gospel/understanding thereof is another gospel.
Here you are close, but still in error. Your bold letters is your error. Faith is the evidence of the new birth, whether or not a person receives this matters very little. Examples: infants; those feeble minded folks who are unable to process information, and the millions of millions who have never heard of Christ's and gospel both OT and NT! Maybe more on this later.
Yes as far as receiving "the knowledge of" this blessed truth, and the comfort, peace, and joy it gives.
The gospel has no meaning, or glory to men born of Adam, it is all foolishness to them until they are quicken to life, and then at that point, they see the wisdom, power, then and only then, they glory in the mercy and grace of God given to them on the behalf of Jesus Christ's redemption work for them.
brightfame52
Active Member
Amen, its as plain as the noon day sun
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I know Calvin taught you this but I have certainly never read such in the Scriptures. I'll even stay in the KJV for you. Prove it.
I have read Romans 1:16.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
The Gospel is the power of God. Why are you trying to deceive others.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Nonsense. Did you love your mother when you were born?
civic
Active Member
Amen just like those Corinthians in 1 Cor 2-3.
brightfame52
Active Member
What he posted is:
its as plain as the noon day sun
Rom 8:8
Rom 8:8 has nothing to do with anyones mom
brightfame52
Active Member
@praise_yeshua
And those Truths come in the power of the Spirit working effectually causing the regenerated to believe.
1 Thess 2 13
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
What is Paul Thanking God for here ?
The Gospel are Tulip Truths, Gospel Doctrines clarifying Salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ. Who He died for, the elect and so forth
And those Truths come in the power of the Spirit working effectually causing the regenerated to believe.
1 Thess 2 13
13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
What is Paul Thanking God for here ?
