brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is given to the seed of Abraham like it was given to Abraham.
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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Doug Brents
Active Member
Faith is not given to anyone. Faith is man's response to God (Rom 10:17). Faith is the substance (from us) of the hope we have in Christ. Faith is the evidence (from us) of the unseen. Jesus said, "If you have faith the size of a mustard seed...", not 'If God gives you faith like a mustard seed...".
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is given, its alloted out 2 Pet 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
The word obtained is the word lagchanó:
his lot be, cast lots, obtain.
to receive by divine allotment, obtain
See the seed of Abraham has been promised an Inheritance Gal 3:18
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
So Faith is part of the inheritance. Thats how you know you are an heir with Abraham as one of his children.
Doug Brents
Active Member
And how is this faith attained? Through study of the Word of God (Rom 10:17). It is not given as in something that is handed from one person to another. It is given as in we have been given Jesus and the Gospel of His salvation in whom we place our faith.
Faith is the basis on which the inheritance is given (Phil 3:9, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 10:9-10).
brightfame52
Active Member
lol what you mean how is it attained ? Didnt I just show you its a gift of inheritance ? Read 2 Pet 1:1 again,
The same principle is set forth in Rom 12:3 God gives, metes out a measure of faith
or I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Remember Paul already taught them they were the seed of Abraham earlier in the letter Rom 4:16
therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all
Faith is given to the seed of Abraham
Doug Brents
Active Member
You have it backward, we are the seed of Abraham because we have faith.
brightfame52
Active Member
One is the seed of abraham and heir b4 they are born like Isaac was. He was heir b4 he was born, and believers are as well Gal 4:28
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
It was guaranteed that Isaac would be born a sinner, then regenerated and given faith to evidence he was an heir. God promised abraham spiritual children, and so believers become so as God keeps His promise to Abraham
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I got familiar with the NT like everyone usually does in the US because most Gentile churches teach heavily from the NT and rarely do not teach the foundation of the Old Testament because western churches teach "we" are no longer under the Law - which is false teaching - and so most get an unusually greater awareness and teaching of the NT. like you. I haven't seen you in our countless interaction post and comment wisely from the OT. What you need to do, which is what I did, is study the OT to understand the origins and beginnings of salvation and other things concerning the three major Hebrew covenants and what the NT is all about in relation to the origins of the Hebrew people and their religion and culture. You don't know the OT as I think you should. And it helps to study under the anointing and of course, one must first be saved.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
That's what God made Abraham do as he awaited a son and heir (Isaac.)
But King of the JEWS is as racist as God can get.
He's NOT KIng of the Gentiles although He is Sovereign over ALL creation.
Get a clue. King of the JEWS is very racist of God to choose ONE family over and ABOVE all others.
Utter nonsense
Multiple verses from the Old Testament were posted showing all nations would be blessed through Abraham
You just ignored that.
You also ignore much of the New Testament picking and choosing what you like.
Multiple verses were posted from throughout scripture that clearly showed your bias in interpreting scripture.
BTW, salvation is, of course, not by law but by faith.
Romans 3:27–31 (LEB) — 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith. 31 Therefore, do we nullify the law through faith? May it never be! But we uphold the law.
That lays out my belief wholly. So do not misrepresent it.
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brightfame52
Active Member
worship of ethnicity
jeremiah1five
Active Member
It's your interpretation that is wrong.
God told Abraham "In thee" meaning his seed would be blessed on the earth and that is exactly what happen. Israel is a very prosperous and powerful nation. And Israel is the central people in Revelation, a prophecy of Israel in the end time.
So, get your theology in loine with Scripture because God never promised Gentiles anything. They are His enemy and Israel's enemy and they will be dealt with in the end (Rev. 20:7-9.)
God loves Israel and says so in the OT. God never says this about the Gentile nations. God thinks very low or nothing at all about the Gentile nations.
So, get a clue. Isaiah states the truth of God and it is impossible to get past this passage by saying they are blessed along with Abraham.
They are NOT.
17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.
If the nations are nothing to God they cannot be blessed.
Period.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Jews worship God.
They know who they are as God's people.
No one else has God's protection, blessing, or salvation [than] the Jews and ONLY the Jews.
Again
Continue reading
The descendant of Abraham is Christ and the promise is given through faith in Christ
Galatians 3:15–29 (LEB) — 15 Brothers, I am speaking according to a human perspective. Nevertheless, when the covenant of a man has been ratified, no one declares it invalid or adds additional provisions to it. 16 Now to Abraham and to his descendant the promises were spoken. It does not say, “and to descendants,” as concerning many, but as concerning one, “and to your descendant,” who is Christ. 17 Now I am saying this: the law, that came after four hundred and thirty years, does not revoke a covenant previously ratified by God, in order to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is from the law, it is no longer from the promise, but God graciously gave it to Abraham through the promise. 19 Why then the law? It was added on account of transgressions, until the descendant should come to whom it had been promised, having been ordered through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now the mediator is not for one, but God is one. 21 Therefore is the law opposed to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, certainly righteousness would have been from the law. 22 But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were detained under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. 24 So then, the law became our guardian until Christ, in order that we could be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are descendants of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.
The blessings and the fathership of Abraham are seen in multiple passages.
Gen 17:5Your name shall no longer be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I will make you the father of a multitude of nations.
Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.
Romans 4:9–12 (LEB) — 9 Therefore, is this blessing for those who are circumcised, or also for those who are uncircumcised? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham for righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised but while uncircumcised! 11 And he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness by faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he could be the father of all who believe although they are uncircumcised, so that righteousness could be credited to them, 12 and the father of those who are circumcised to those who are not only from the circumcision, but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.
Romans 4:13–17 (LEB) — 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants, that he would be heir of the world, was not through the law, but through the righteousness by faith. 14 For if those of the law are heirs, faith is rendered void and the promise is nullified. 15 For the law produces wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,
Genesis 12:1–3 (LEB) — 1 And Yahweh said to Abram, “Go out from your land and from your relatives, and from the house of your father, to the land that I will show you. 2 And I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great. And you will be a blessing. 3 And I will bless those who bless you, and those who curse you I will curse. And all families of the earth will be blessed in you.”
Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”
Acts 3:25 (LEB) — 25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed.’
Gen 26:3–4Dwell as an alien in this land, and I will be with you, and will bless you, for I will give all these lands to you and to your descendants, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. And I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and I will give to your descendants all these lands. And all nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring,
Gen 28:13–14And behold, Yahweh was standing beside him, and he said, “I am Yahweh, the God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac. The ground on which you were sleeping I will give to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west, and to the east, and to the north and to the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and through your descendants.
Your absurdity is to contradict many verses with one that you take out of context
12–26. The prophet’s object is to show the power of Jehovah to deliver the people from captivity. He emphasises two thoughts: (a) the wonderful order and proportion in the universe show His infinite power and wisdom (vv. 12–17), and (b) no representation can be made of Him. How futile are the idols that men make! (vv. 18–20).
20. RV ‘He that is too impoverished for such an oblation,’ etc. 24. Shall not] read the tenses as past (RV). The v. expresses the transitory character of earthly powers in the sight of Jehovah. 26. Faileth] is missing.
27. The foregoing argument is addressed to a people who had suffered so long, that they thought God had forgotten them, and were despondent
J. R. Dummelow, ed., A Commentary on the Holy Bible (New York: The Macmillan Company, 1936), 440.
Christ is king of kings
Revelation 19:16 (LEB) — 16 And he has a name written on his outer garment and on his thigh: “King of kings and Lord of lords.”
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Saul calling out "brethren" would seem to mean Gentile Christians because Gentile Christians since the destruction of the 2nd Jewish Temple by the Romans (Gentiles) stole Old Testament terms but "brethren" to Saul means his Jewish brethren. You're interpreting these verses above like a Gentile but it's not Gentiles that are his brethren (of the flesh - Jews) but Jews who are his brethren as coming from a man of the tribe of Benjamin to the other eleven tribes of Israel.
And since you interpret the New Testament like a Gentile - which is how I did that too early in my new born walk in Christ, when I take the New Testament and read it like a Jew to other Jews then the truth of the NT comes through. I've been saved nearly half a century. I know all these Gentile theology books and their Gentile mindset interpretations, but when I went back to the beginning (OT) THEN I was able to understand the NT as Jewish and the completion of the Mosaic Covenant because Christ came to FULFILL the Mosaic Covenant as the lamb of God and not the lamb slain by men, then I saw the link to the Law of Moses and the substitutionary sacrificial offerings UNDER THE LAW and Christ not coming to change the Law which will destroy the Law which is what Jesus said He did not come to do in response to the Jewish religious leaders accusations against Him because they did not see His teaching as the spirit of the Law but ONLY the letter of the Law which was their original conflict between them.
I'm not going to waste my time with the rest of your statements because once you take the New Covenant writings (Matthw to Revelation) and interpret them from a Gentile mindset - which is what I did as a baby in Christ because I was fed these teachings from the Gentile pulpits - I was able to study on my own because when as a child I saw things as a child I put away childish things and studied the Hebrew Scriptures as written - from a Jewish mindset and perspective THEN I came to the knowledge of the truth. Everything you say is only the same Gentile garbage I was fed as a babe in Christ, that is, until I became a man and learned to study the Hebrew Scripture from a Hebrew mindset perspective and then I knew what I had been taught was wrong - the same garbage I read in your words.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
And He comes to save the Jews.
Get a clue:
The full phrase "King of kings and Lord of lords" is not found in the Old Testament. However, the individual titles "King of kings" and "Lord of lords" do appear, although they are used differently.
"Lord of lords" is used to refer to God in the Old Testament. For example:
- Deuteronomy 10:17: "For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who does not show partiality nor take a bribe."
- Psalm 136:3: "Give thanks to the Lord of lords, for his steadfast love endures forever."
- Ezekiel 26:7: "For thus says the Lord GOD: 'Behold, I will bring against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.'"
- Daniel 2:37: "You, O king, are a king of kings: for the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory."
The term is strictly Old Testament terms and, in the NT, refer to the God OF ABRAM, ISAAC, and JACOB - NOT some Gentile god.
And save gentiles. Gathering both Jews and gentiles together
Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Your bias leads you to ignore scripture
And therefore king over all
Doug Brents
Active Member
Nope. Paul was talking to Gentile Christ followers in this passage. And he is stating that they are now heirs of the promise of God to Abraham, just as Isaac was, and just like the Jews who descended biologically from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Um, the temple was destroyed because of Jewish unfaithfulness.
Matthew 23:37–38 (LEB) — 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How many times I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her young together under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 Behold, your house has been left to you desolate!
Matthew 24:1–2 (LEB) — 1 And as Jesus went out of the temple courts he was going along, and his disciples came up to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone will be left here on another stone that will not be thrown down!”
and were hardened because of their unbelief
Mark 6:52because they did not understand concerning the loaves, but their hearts were hardened.
and blinded
John 12:40 (LEB) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, and I heal them.”
You, it appears, do not yet see
Galatians 3:15–29 (LEB) — 15 Brothers, I am speaking according to a human perspective. Nevertheless, when the covenant of a man has been ratified, no one declares it invalid or adds additional provisions to it. 16 Now to Abraham and to his descendant the promises were spoken. It does not say, “and to descendants,” as concerning many, but as concerning one, “and to your descendant,” who is Christ. 17 Now I am saying this: the law, that came after four hundred and thirty years, does not revoke a covenant previously ratified by God, in order to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is from the law, it is no longer from the promise, but God graciously gave it to Abraham through the promise. 19 Why then the law? It was added on account of transgressions, until the descendant should come to whom it had been promised, having been ordered through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now the mediator is not for one, but God is one. 21 Therefore is the law opposed to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, certainly righteousness would have been from the law. 22 But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were detained under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. 24 So then, the law became our guardian until Christ, in order that we could be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are descendants of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.
blinded so that you cannot see
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are descendants of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.
and that the same Paul wrote
Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
