The Issue of Limited Atonement

[jeremiah1five]

A really terrible interpretation. It says "all the families of the earth". There is no rational way to limit that to the descendants of Abraham.

Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Good Lord, ma, I have to log back in because you don't understand the text of Scripture?

Why is Abraham blessed? Is it because of covenant with God or without it?
Without it he would be as the other families that are not beneficiaries of God's covenant.
But because of covenant Abraham IS BLESSED, NOT without it.

Thus, his seed are also blessed as promised by God. Abraham is promised land but he dies not receiving the land promised by God. Do the people NOT in this land covenant receive the land God promised to Abraham? No, they don't. That's because the blessing of his own land is promised to Abraham by God. And because God also extended the Abraham promises to his seed (Isaac, and then Jacob, and on to Jacob's children UNTIL God is good and ready IN HIS TIME to finally deem the land physically to Abraham's seed (children of Jacob/Israel) the can only WAIT ON GOD TO KEEP His promise given originally to Abraham.

Abraham is blessed (with a promise of land - among other things) because of God promising/covenanting it to him, NOT by NOT being promised something by God.

Thus, Abraham is promised land - among other things - BECAUSE of these covenant promises of God - NOT without it.
And because God knew it would take centuries until He was ready to give the land as promised to him is the reason why God included his seed, specifically the seed that he asked God for to INHERIT those promises meaning an inheritor from his own body and not Eliezar his servant.

4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Genesis 15:4–5.

The text says God made Abraham promises in a covenant (which means promises) and this is the basis of him being blessed. Those who do not have this covenant promises are NOT included in the text and in the covenant and the blessing that are included in this covenant/promises. It is his seed that are also included in this covenant promises that Abraham asked God to give him who would be his heir from his own body (seed.) Everyone who is NOT in covenant promises with Abraham are NOT his seed and are NOT blessed because of these covenant promises. Did God include these people in His promise to Abraham?

1 And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations;
2 That these made war with Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela, which is Zoar.
Genesis 14:1–2.

Are these men included in the promises God made to Abraham? Here you have the First World War, four kings against five. Are any of them included in God's explicit promises to Abraham? Are they named in the promises God gave to Abraham?

NO, THEY ARE NOT.

Here is the first clue that anyone NOT Abraham's seed is NOT included in God's promises to Abraham. When as a result of this war Chedorlaomer captured Abraham's nephew, Lot, he gathered his servants and rescued Lot from him.

Was Lot included in God's promises to Abraham? NO, HE WAS NOT. LOt was NOT Abraham's seed.

So, Abraham is blessed APART from everyone else because of the promises God made to Abraham that He DID NOT make with others. Thus, when God says:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:3.

God is referring to Abraham's heirs - Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's children who later became a great number of people (tribes.) Twelve tribes.

IF GOD WANTED THOSE - like these nine kings and their families blessed WITH Abraham, He would not have made clear that Abraham was to have an heir in which this heir would inherit Abraham's possessions - including the promises - and NOT these nine kings and their families.

Do you get it, NOW? It's like teaching a child who is learning to read the first time as opposed to a child who cannot read. Which one is blessed with reading? The one learning or the one not learning?

And THAT is the basis of covenant and the blessings that come with it (promises.) Abraham is blessed and his seed, NOT the nine kings who are NOT in covenant with God.

Do you get it NOW? Abraham and HIS SEED ("IN THEE") are blessed NOT those NOT in covenant with God.

This line of promise and heirs follows Abraham's seed until Christ arrives the second time. Christ kept the Law and the covenant and died under the Law for those in covenant. God is STILL blessing Abraham's seed, NOT those who are NOT in covenant (nine kings of the world and their seed.)

Got it, now, Jim?

 

[TomL]

Learn the meaning of words.

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:1–3.

The whole blessing comes with covenant, not without it. It is Abraham's families born "in thee" (Abraham) that are blessed, not the non-covenant other families of the earth.

"IN THEE" refers to Abraham's families who are the blessed because of covenant, NOT families NOT IN COVENANT.

You ignored this.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

And these from the Old Covenant.

Gen 28:13–14And behold, Yahweh was standing beside him, and he said, “I am Yahweh, the God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac. The ground on which you were sleeping I will give to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west, and to the east, and to the north and to the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and through your descendants.
and these

Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.

Gen 26:3–4Dwell as an alien in this land, and I will be with you, and will bless you, for I will give all these lands to you and to your descendants, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. And I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and I will give to your descendants all these lands. And all nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring,



Clearly the nations of the earth are other than just Israelites.

 

[jeremiah1five]

you ignored this

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
and this
Gen 28:13–14And behold, Yahweh was standing beside him, and he said, “I am Yahweh, the God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac. The ground on which you were sleeping I will give to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west, and to the east, and to the north and to the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and through your descendants.
and these
Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.

Gen 26:3–4Dwell as an alien in this land, and I will be with you, and will bless you, for I will give all these lands to you and to your descendants, and I will establish the oath that I swore to Abraham your father. And I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and I will give to your descendants all these lands. And all nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring,

Clearly the nations of the earth are other than just Israelites.

I'm done with you, Tommy.

You focus too heavily on the New Testament and the Gentile-biased misinterpretations and NOT on the original passages in the Old Testament, which is not old, but FIRST. This is why you fail to understand.

You're like a person who owns an electric car. It's nice, but in fifty years NO ONE will seek to restore one like we do now with old combustible-engine cars of the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50, and 60s.

And I'm not responding to 4-5 comments like I was these past weeks.

 

[TomL]

I'm done with you, Tommy.

You focus too heavily on the New Testament and the Gentile-biased misinterpretations and NOT on the original passages in the Old Testament, which is not old, but FIRST. This is why you fail to understand.

You're like a person who owns an electric car. It's nice, but in fifty years NO ONE will seek to restore one like we do now with old combustible-engine cars of the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50, and 60s.

And I'm not responding to 4-5 comments like I was these past weeks.

Sorry, you pick and choose the scriptures you like.

I have provided multiple verses of scripture refuting your bias.

These were from both the Old and the New testament.

You appear as those spoken of here

2 Corinthians 3:13–15 (LEB) — 13 and not as Moses used to place a veil over his face, in order that the sons of Israel would not stare at the end of what was transitory. 14 But their minds were hardened. For until this very day, the same veil remains upon the reading of the old covenant, not being uncovered, because it is done away with in Christ. 15 But until today, whenever Moses is read aloud, a veil lies upon their heart,

Romans 11:7–11 (LEB) — 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, and a cause for stumbling and a retribution to them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they do not see, and cause their backs to bend continually.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so that they fell, did they? May it never be! But by their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy.

 

[Doug Brents]

Cornelius was mixed-race Hebrew.

Where do you get that? Certainly not from Scripture.
Acts 10:1-2 - "Now there was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and made many charitable contributions to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually."
Acts 10:45 - "All the Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles."
Luke clearly identifies Cornelius as a Gentile,

The Holy Spirit of Promise was PROMISED TO ISRAEL.
That's what God said:

THE PROMISE:

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
In those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
Blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and lthe moon into blood,
Before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
For qin mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
As the LORD hath said,
And in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Joel 2:27–32.

THE FULFILLMENT:

Peter is speaking to the twelve tribes of Israel. First, to the two southern kingdom tribes present at Jerusalem:

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Acts 2:14.

Then, he turns his attention to the ten northern kingdom tribes also present at Jerusalem:

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Acts 2:22.

He continues addressing the twelve tribes of Israel/Jacob:

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:28–29.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:32–33.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:38–39.

The Holy Spirit of Promise was PROMISED TO THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL.

Again, it was true in the beginning of the Church that only Jews were gathered. But it was ALWAYS God's plan to include the Gentiles in the Church, and to save members of EVERY nation through Christ Jesus. You keep taking verses out of context, and only looking at passages that seem to support your perspective. But you must look at ALL of Scripture to get a proper view of what God plans.
Read Paul's sermon to the GENTILES in Athens (Acts 17:22-34). This sermon is to an almost exclusively Gentile audience, and he even quotes Gentile poets who wrote about Zeus (but making their quote about God, not their pagan idol).

The prophets of God did not write letters to Israel. They wrote the words God gave them to give to the nation and people of all Israel, both kingdoms. One example is <oses:

1 NOW these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.
2 Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,
3 Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,
4 Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.
Exodus 1:1-4.

1 AND the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
Leviticus 1:1-2.

1 AND the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying,
2 Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls;
Numbers 1:1-2.

1 THESE be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red sea, between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab.
Deuteronomy 1:1.

WHERE does it say God spoke these things to non-Hebrew Gentiles or the foreign nations God destroyed OUT OF CANAAN??? The Word of God - Genesis to Malachi was spoken and written TO ISRAEL.
The same can be said of the letters written by Jews and Jewish Christians to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians called the CHURCH - or Great Congregation - of Israel and Christ. They are one and the same. The letters were written to Jews by Jews. Here's one example:

1 JAMES, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James 1:1.

God's Holy and Covenant words were always to and for the children of Israel beginning in Exodus and continuing through to Revelations.

God's Holy words and the Old Covenant were for the Jews and all the Gentiles (like Ruth and Rahab) who chose to live as a Jew and serve God). But His Holy words and New Covenant are for all who trust in Him, EVERYONE, Jew and Gentile alike.

The CHURCH (Greek "ekklesia" = "called out [ones]") are identified as the Hebrew people God CALLED OUT of Egypt, and of the baby Jesus CALLED OUT of Egypt.
God never called non-Hebrew Gentiles a "Great Congregation" or in Greek, His CHURCH of called out [ones.]

13 And there assembled at Jerusalem much people to keep the feast of unleavened bread in the second month, a very great congregation. 2 Chronicles 30:13.

8 Also at the same time Solomon kept the feast seven days, and all Israel with him, a very great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt. 2 Chronicles 7:8.

Israel is both the great congregation and Church.
God NEVER calls non-Hebrew His "congregation" or "Church." These are biblical terms identifying ISRAEL.

That is not correct. The Church is all who follow Christ in the New Covenant era (starting with Pentecost and forward to Judgement). God's Israel today is all who are in Christ. Read Rom 11:11-31. Those who are born Jewish who are not in Christ are cut off from Israel. And those who are born Gentile who are in Christ are grafted into Israel.

God determined it. God predestinated it. God is the One who slew the Lamb OF GOD.
Christ was God's perfect sacrifice, His contribution to Israel's deliverance and salvation.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Acts 2:21–23.

36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! John 1:36.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs,
And carried our sorrows:
Yet we did esteem him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:4.

Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, was slain BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man:

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:7–8.

Jesus Christ was offered by God, slain by God, and raised by God to atone for the sins of the children of ISRAEL.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

THIS IS the Word of God.

You're right, no one TOOK Jesus' life, He GAVE it up for us. But your statement that "It was the Romans that put the King of the Jews to death" (from post 1722) is not accurate. The Jews also played a major roll in the death of Jesus, and they are not absolved from that sin without repentance (even today).

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sorry, you pick and choose the scriptures you like.

I have provided multiple verses of scripture refuting your bias.

These were from both the Old and the New testament.

You appear as those spoken of here

2 Corinthians 3:13–15 (LEB) — 13 and not as Moses used to place a veil over his face, in order that the sons of Israel would not stare at the end of what was transitory. 14 But their minds were hardened. For until this very day, the same veil remains upon the reading of the old covenant, not being uncovered, because it is done away with in Christ. 15 But until today, whenever Moses is read aloud, a veil lies upon their heart,

Romans 11:7–11 (LEB) — 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, and a cause for stumbling and a retribution to them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they do not see, and cause their backs to bend continually.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so that they fell, did they? May it never be! But by their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy.

No, I reject your interpretation of the apostle’s writings because they are not consistent with Old Testament Scripture.

 

[TomL]

No, I reject your interpretation of the apostle’s writings because they are not consistent with Old Testament Scripture.

You reject them because they are contrary to your bias, as I noted.

Sorry, you pick and choose the scriptures you like.

I have provided multiple verses of scripture refuting your bias.

These were from both the Old and the New testament.

You appear as those spoken of here

2 Corinthians 3:13–15 (LEB) — 13 and not as Moses used to place a veil over his face, in order that the sons of Israel would not stare at the end of what was transitory. 14 But their minds were hardened. For until this very day, the same veil remains upon the reading of the old covenant, not being uncovered, because it is done away with in Christ. 15 But until today, whenever Moses is read aloud, a veil lies upon their heart,

Romans 11:7–11 (LEB) — 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, and a cause for stumbling and a retribution to them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they do not see, and cause their backs to bend continually.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so that they fell, did they? May it never be! But by their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy.

 

[TomL]

Where do you get that? Certainly not from Scripture.
Acts 10:1-2 - "Now there was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and made many charitable contributions to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually."
Acts 10:45 - "All the Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles."
Luke clearly identifies Cornelius as a Gentile,

Clearly his bias is driving his interpretations

 

[brightfame52]

Hello

Your words were

It was, believing is in consequence of having been promised. Just ordaining to eternal life preceded the believing Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

This ordaining by God is in conjunction with His promising it to them before the world began Titus 1:2

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

When God promised Abraham an inheritance, it was a done deal, yet He gave Abraham Faith to believe it, yet it was Abrahams Faith that was a condition he had to have for the promise to be certainly his. So he believed because God promised

See when God promises one something He persuades them to believe.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored context

Romans 11:1–5 (LEB) — 1 Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, from the descendants of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.” 5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the grace of Christ, who died for all.

Grace Salvation is Salvation based upon unconditional election of grace. I know that's not taught much in religion these days because its offensive. If its of grace, its limited to a remnant. Listen to Paul which made jews angry Rom 9:27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Isaiah preached it also and was persecuted to death, but that was Grace Salvation

 

[brightfame52]

Thank, you, Jesus.

King of the JEWS is as racists as they get.

Trusting in the flesh

 

[TomL]

Grace Salvation is Salvation based upon unconditional election of grace. I know that's not taught much in religion these days because its offensive. If its of grace, its limited to a remnant. Listen to Paul which made jews angry Rom 9:27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Isaiah preached it also and was persecuted to death, but that was Grace Salvation

You are ignoring the context of a verse you quoted



Romans 11:1–5 (LEB) — 1 Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, from the descendants of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have torn down your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life!” 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have left for myself seven thousand people who have not bent the knee to Baal.” 5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the grace of Christ, who died for all.

Will you deny that Christ's dying for men is a matter of grace?

 

[brightfame52]

Will you deny that Christ's dying for men is a matter of grace?

Grace is always for a remnant friend. And no, He died for a remnant, He died for the election of grace. Duh

Just like Heb 2:9 that taste of death was solely for a elect remnant, in this case the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham
The seed of Abraham is merely a remnant of mankind. Gods elect Isa 41 8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

 

[TomL]

It was, believing is in consequence of having been promised. Just ordaining to eternal life preceded the believing Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

This ordaining by God is in conjunction with His promising it to them before the world began Titus 1:2

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

When God promised Abraham an inheritance, it was a done deal, yet He gave Abraham Faith to believe it, yet it was Abrahams Faith that was a condition he had to have for the promise to be certainly his. So he believed because God promised

See when God promises one something He persuades them to believe.

You skip the point under discussion

I stated all that believe are saved

You denied it and stated

it was promised to them that believe.

now regarding

Acts 13:48 (LEB) — 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of the Lord. And all those who were designated for eternal life believed.

Nothing is stated about men being determined to believe before the foundation of the earth.

In context we find the grace, which was the word of God resisted

Acts 13:46–48 (LEB) — 46 Both Paul and Barnabas spoke boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you, since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life! Behold, we are turning to the Gentiles! 47 For so the Lord has commanded us: ‘I have appointed you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you would bring salvation to the end of the earth.’ 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of the Lord. And all those who were designated for eternal life believed.

The verb ταττω or τασσω signifies to place, set, order, appoint, dispose; hence it has been considered here as implying the disposition or readiness of mind of several persons in the congregation, such as the religious proselytes mentioned ver. 43, who possessed the reverse of the disposition of those Jews who spake against those things, contradicting and blaspheming, ver. 45. Though the word in this place has been variously translated, yet, of all the meanings ever put on it, none agrees worse with its nature and known signification than that which represents it as intending those who were predestinated to eternal life: this is no meaning of the term, and should never be applied to it. Let

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 5, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 790.

 

[Doug Brents]

Just like Heb 2:9 that taste of death was solely for a elect remnant, in this case the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

What is the "seed of Abraham"? What does that phrase really mean? Not according to you, but according to Scripture.

 

[TomL]

Grace is always for a remnant friend. And no, He died for a remnant, He died for the election of grace. Duh

Just like Heb 2:9 that taste of death was solely for a elect remnant, in this case the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham
The seed of Abraham is merely a remnant of mankind. Gods elect Isa 41 8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Sorry Christ's dying for all is a matter of grace for all

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

And blessings in Abraham were for all nations.

Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.

Gen 12:3And I will bless those who bless you, and those who curse you I will curse. And all families of the earth will be blessed in you.”

Gen 22:18All the nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring, because you have listened to my voice.”

Gen 26:4And I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and I will give to your descendants all these lands. And all nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring,

Gen 28:14Your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west, and to the east, and to the north and to the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and through your descendants.

Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”

Acts 3:25You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed.’

 

[brightfame52]

You skip the point under discussion

I stated all that believe are saved

You denied it and stated



now regarding

Acts 13:48 (LEB) — 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of the Lord. And all those who were designated for eternal life believed.

Nothing is stated about men being determined to believe before the foundation of the earth.

In context we find the grace, which was the word of God resisted

Acts 13:46–48 (LEB) — 46 Both Paul and Barnabas spoke boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you, since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life! Behold, we are turning to the Gentiles! 47 For so the Lord has commanded us: ‘I have appointed you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you would bring salvation to the end of the earth.’ 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of the Lord. And all those who were designated for eternal life believed.

The verb ταττω or τασσω signifies to place, set, order, appoint, dispose; hence it has been considered here as implying the disposition or readiness of mind of several persons in the congregation, such as the religious proselytes mentioned ver. 43, who possessed the reverse of the disposition of those Jews who spake against those things, contradicting and blaspheming, ver. 45. Though the word in this place has been variously translated, yet, of all the meanings ever put on it, none agrees worse with its nature and known signification than that which represents it as intending those who were predestinated to eternal life: this is no meaning of the term, and should never be applied to it. Let

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 5, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 790.

See believing is always the evidence of salvation, never the condition.

 

[brightfame52]

What is the "seed of Abraham"? What does that phrase really mean? Not according to you, but according to Scripture.

The seed of Abraham is a chosen people. I just showed you. Like Abraham was chosen, called out Heb 11:8

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry Christ's dying for all is a matter of grace for all

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

And blessings in Abraham were for all nations.

Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.

Gen 12:3And I will bless those who bless you, and those who curse you I will curse. And all families of the earth will be blessed in you.”

Gen 22:18All the nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring, because you have listened to my voice.”

Gen 26:4And I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and I will give to your descendants all these lands. And all nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring,

Gen 28:14Your descendants shall be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west, and to the east, and to the north and to the south. And all the families of the earth will be blessed through you and through your descendants.

Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”

Acts 3:25You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God ordained with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your offspring all the nations of the earth will be blessed.’

Grace is always limited to a remnant, apart from the rest ! All them are Abrahams chosen seed

 

[Doug Brents]

The seed of Abraham is a chosen people. I just showed you. Like Abraham was chosen, called out Heb 11:8

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Gal 3:7 - "Therefore, recognize that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham."
It is those who have faith that are the chosen people, the seed of Abraham. It was these people who were chosen before the world began, because of God's foreknowledge.
Rom 8:29 - "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters"