The Importance of Obedience in Knowing God

[Behold]

So which is it? Are the "Doers" of the Christ's Sayings those who overcome the world? Or the hearers only?

The "doers of the word" are the people who have believed it.

That is how you "do it". That is how you "obey the Gospel".

A.) You BELIEVE It.

 

[DavidTree]

The "doers of the word" are the people who have believed it.

That is how you "do it". That is how you "obey the Gospel".

A.) You BELIEVE It.

Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

 

[Behold]

Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
and
“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

Edit by admin

If we bring that verse to bear down on CHRISTIANS, then we find the word "Legalist", as its the same, as that verse.

A Legalist is trying to do for themselves, by work, enduring, commandment keeping, and water baptism.... what only Christ can Do and has accomplished 2000 yrs ago by His death, burial, and resurrection.

Salvation isn't something we DO.....Its something we Receive.

 

[DavidTree]

Edit by admin

If we bring that verse to bear down on CHRISTIANS, then we find the word "Legalist", as its the same, as that verse.

A Legalist is trying to do for themselves, by work, enduring, commandment keeping, and water baptism.... what only Christ can Do and has accomplished 2000 yrs ago by His death, burial, and resurrection.

Salvation isn't something we DO.....Its something we Receive.

Based on your reply, you are not FULLY SEEING what is written.

 

[Behold]

Based on your reply, you are not FULLY SEEING what is written.

Romans 10:2-3

​

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge....

3. For they being.... ignorant.... of God's righteousness,<<<<<<.... and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[DavidTree]

Romans 10:2-3​

​

​

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge....View.
3. For they being.... ignorant.... of God's righteousness,<<<<<<.... and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That is a 'no-brainer'.

i am talking about the FULL PICTURE from God's point of View.

 

[Fellow Traveler]

Yeah those ignorant Heretics mess everything up

 

[Studyman]

The "doers of the word" are the people who have believed it.

So then, according to your stated religious position, satan is a "doer of the word"?

That is how you "do it". That is how you "obey the Gospel".

A.) You BELIEVE It.

So then, those men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but are not "doers" of the Christ's Sayings, are those who don't really believe Him.

The Scriptures teach this, and I believe it as well.

 

[dwight92070]

That's how you enter into the kingdom, but action is required after that to be a doer of the word.

 

[Doug Brents]

That's how you enter into the kingdom, but action is required after that to be a doer of the word.

I am not sure what "That" you are talking about as "how you enter the Kingdom", but you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God without being a doer of the Word first (Rom 10:9-10, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Acts 3:19). Repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism lead to being saved. They are not "action required after" being saved.

 

[dwight92070]

Wrong. Repentance and faith in Jesus is how anyone enters the kingdom. Biblically, baptism has nothing to do with that. Baptism occurs later.

 

[Doug Brents]

Wrong. Repentance and faith in Jesus is how anyone enters the kingdom. Biblically, baptism has nothing to do with that. Baptism occurs later.

Not according to Scripture. When does Rom 6 say that we die to sin? "In baptism". When does Col 2 say that new life begins? "In baptism". What does Acts 2:38 say about what we need to do to be saved from our sin? Repent AND be baptized in order to receive forgiveness of sin.

 

[dwight92070]

No, we don't die to sin by any work, but only by faith, nor does new life begin because we did a work, but also only by faith. Romans 6:11 says, "Even so consider (by faith) yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive (by faith) to God in Christ Jesus. It doesn't say "be baptized" to be dead to sin or alive to God.
You have been deceived into violating the scriptural law that says works cannot save us. Israel fell for this deception as well: Romans 9:31-32 "but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, ..."
Acts 2:38 You also stumble here, wrongly assuming that the work of baptism earns your forgiveness of sins. Actually, it's repentance and believing, neither of which are a good work, in which God will mercifully give you forgiveness of sins. Acts 10:43 makes that abundantly clear:
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him (NOT everyone who gets baptized) receives forgiveness of sins.

You set aside the Bible principle that we're not saved by works, so that you can "shoe-horn" your defiant doctrine that we are saved by works into verses and passages that may appear to say that, at first glance. But God is testing you - given a passage that isn't as clear as you would like it to be, will you remain faithful to the truth of all the other verses/passages, that state the principle "we're not saved by works", very clearly? Or will you abandon that clear Bible principle, so that you can present your false belief, which contradicts the clear principle. When you do that, you fail the test. You become the Judaizers of our day, insisting that unless you are baptized (they said circumcised), you can't be saved. Paul was quite angry with these people, and rightfully so - they were distorting the truth, as he would be with you people, if he were alive today.

 

[Doug Brents]

No, we don't die to sin by any work, but only by faith, nor does new life begin because we did a work, but also only by faith. Romans 6:11 says, "Even so consider (by faith) yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive (by faith) to God in Christ Jesus. It doesn't say "be baptized" to be dead to sin or alive to God.

Do you even read the Scriptures? Rom 6:11 is not separate from Rom 6:2-4. You adding "by faith" in places where Scripture does not put it is intellectually dishonest, because you are attempting to change the meaning of what the Scripture really says. We die to sin when and how God says we die to sin. And Rom 6:2-3 says that we die to sin when we are baptized into Jesus' death. New life begins when Scripture says it does. And Rom 6:4 says that because we died to sin through baptism we can now walk in new life. And this all happens during baptism because of our faith.

You have been deceived into violating the scriptural law that says works cannot save us. Israel fell for this deception as well: Romans 9:31-32 "but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, ..."

I am not pursuing righteousness through the Law or through works. Dwight, you have to be completely blind, or in full rebellion against God, to not accept that there are physical acts that are required to receive salvation, as clearly shown in Rom 10:9-10. Confession "with the mouth" cannot be anything but a physical action that results in receiving salvation. If Scripture dictates that a physical action results in receiving salvation, then who are we to contradict Scripture? Who are we to tell God that He didn't really mean what He said?

Acts 2:38 You also stumble here, wrongly assuming that the work of baptism earns your forgiveness of sins.

Baptism does not "earn" forgiveness of sins. Just as feeding the prophet didn't earn the widow food during the rest of the famine, or marching around the city didn't earn the Israelites the walls of Jericho falling down, or dipping in Jordan didn't earn Naaman cleansing of his leprosy, and the list goes on. No, our obedience does not earn us anything. But failing to obey God's commands does leave us in the state of condemnation that we do deserve and have earned.

Actually, it's repentance and believing, neither of which are a good work, in which God will mercifully give you forgiveness of sins. Acts 10:43 makes that abundantly clear:
"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him (NOT everyone who gets baptized) receives forgiveness of sins.

Do you still not understand that "believes" here is the Greek word pistis, which means faith. Everyone who has faith in Him receives forgiveness of sin. And faith requires the obedience of doing what God says leads to receiving His blessing in order to receive it. It is not just repentance that Scripture says leads to receiving forgiveness. Confession of Jesus as Lord is also required. And being baptized into Christ is also required. Why? BECAUSE SCRIPTURE SAYS SO!

You set aside the Bible principle that we're not saved by works, so that you can "shoe-horn" your defiant doctrine that we are saved by works into verses and passages that may appear to say that, at first glance.

Not being saved by words does not mean that there is no action at all required. Rom 10:9-10 makes that clear. All of the examples in the OT and the NT of God giving different blessings through actions taken in faith make that clear. Naaman did not "earn" cleansing from leprosy when he dipped in Jordan. The dirty water certainly didn't have anything to do with making Him clean. But if he had not dipped all seven times, he would not have been cleansed.

But God is testing you - given a passage that isn't as clear as you would like it to be, will you remain faithful to the truth of all the other verses/passages, that state the principle "we're not saved by works", very clearly? Or will you abandon that clear Bible principle, so that you can present your false belief, which contradicts the clear principle. When you do that, you fail the test. You become the Judaizers of our day, insisting that unless you are baptized (they said circumcised), you can't be saved. Paul was quite angry with these people, and rightfully so - they were distorting the truth, as he would be with you people, if he were alive today.

Sorry, the test is just the opposite. Are you willing to accept Him as Lord and Master, and do what He says even when it doesn't make sense to you? You are a military commander, and God commands you to march around the city you want to conquer one time every day for a week, and on the seventh day march around the city seven times in total silence. Then when you finish the seventh circuit on the seventh day, yell and cheer and sound trumpets. Those instructions have no military value or sense. Do you obey? Or do you pursue a militarily sensible plan? Obedience to your Lord requires faith, for He is the one doing the conquering, not your military might.

Now you are a sinner in need of a salvation that you realize you cannot achieve on your own. Your Lord tells you to publicly claim Him as Lord, turn away from your sinful life and live by His standard, and be immersed in water in His name, and as a result you will receive His forgiveness, adoption into His family, and be remade into a new person. The choice to obey, or not, is yours.

 

[dwight92070]

You forgot to answer a question I posed to you awhile back - and it may be on a related thread. Paul wrote Romans 10:9-10, actually the whole book in around 56-57 A.D. Jesus ascended in approximately 30 A.D. So those who became new believers between 30 A.D. and 56 A.D. - that's 26 years before Paul told new believers that they must "publicly" claim Him as Lord, as part of their "required" works before they could be saved. Some of them may have even died during those 26 years. But whether they died or lived that whole time, were they lost? Nobody told them that "requirement", until Paul did so in 56 A.D. By the way, you added the word "publicly" to Romans 10:9-10, which is also intellectually dishonest, because you also are attempting to change the meaning of those verses.

The fact that none of the 12 apostles told new believers that "requirement" for salvation between 30 A.D. and 56 A.D., is a serious oversight on their part. I mean obviously they preached the gospel of salvation by grace through faith during that period, but they left out a major requirement, in order to be saved, confessing (publicly) Jesus as Lord. How could the twelve apostles have made such a grievous mistake?

 

[Doug Brents]

You forgot to answer a question I posed to you awhile back - and it may be on a related thread. Paul wrote Romans 10:9-10, actually the whole book in around 56-57 A.D. Jesus ascended in approximately 30 A.D. So those who became new believers between 30 A.D. and 56 A.D. - that's 26 years before Paul told new believers that they must "publicly" claim Him as Lord, as part of their "required" works before they could be saved. Some of them may have even died during those 26 years. But whether they died or lived that whole time, were they lost? Nobody told them that "requirement", until Paul did so in 56 A.D. By the way, you added the word "publicly" to Romans 10:9-10, which is also intellectually dishonest, because you also are attempting to change the meaning of those verses.

ROTFL! Do you seriously believe that these things were only taught after they were written? SMH (heavy sigh)

It is not intellectually dishonest to connect Matt 10:32 and Luke 12:8-10 with Rom 10:9-10.

The fact that none of the 12 apostles told new believers that "requirement" for salvation between 30 A.D. and 56 A.D., is a serious oversight on their part. I mean obviously they preached the gospel of salvation by grace through faith during that period, but they left out a major requirement, in order to be saved, confessing (publicly) Jesus as Lord. How could the twelve apostles have made such a grievous mistake?

They didn't. Philip clearly taught confession of the Lord and baptism in Acts 8 when he instructed the Eunuch on how to receive salvation.

 

[dwight92070]

ROTFL! Do you seriously believe that these things were only taught after they were written? SMH (heavy sigh)

If Romans 10:9-10 was taught before 56 A.D., the earlier books would have references to the same truth, but none of them do. The books of Thessalonians were written earlier, but they do not mention "confess with your mouth" as a requirement for salvation. No other New Testament book mentions the verbal confession "Jesus is Lord" as a requirement for salvation. In none of the conversions mentioned in Acts, do we see the confession "Jesus is Lord" being required to be saved. In fact, Romans 10:9-10 itself, does not make that requirement either. Those verses simply affirm someone who already believes.
You're deceiving yourself if you think Philip taught the eunuch that he could not be saved unless he confessed Jesus as Lord. Obviously the eunuch wanted to make sure that Philip thought he was spiritually ready to be baptized, that is, to verify that he was born again. So the eunuch basically was asking for Philip's approval to get baptized. Philip's response, "If you confess Jesus as Lord, you may be baptized." Oops! No, that's NOT what he said. He said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may."
You can't get around it - "believe with all your heart" equals salvation, the new birth. So Philip was essentially saying, "If you are genuinely saved or born again, then you may now get baptized." Philip is showing clearly here that the only requirement for salvation is faith. The eunuch expressed faith. He said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Then Philip baptized him. There's no indication that Philip coached him to say "Jesus is Lord", much less to confess that in order to be saved - either before, during, or after he was baptized, as you would have us believe.

Doug - It is not intellectually dishonest to connect Matt 10:32 and Luke 12:8-10 with Rom 10:9-10.

Not true, the Mat. and Luke verses speak of public confession - "before men". The verses in Romans say nothing about a public confession, just simply a confession, so your adding the word "public" is dishonest. Also NONE of the 4 four verses require confessing "Jesus is Lord" to be saved. On the contrary, all 4 verses speak of a person who is already saved making that confession, affirming that they are indeed disciples of Jesus.

 

[Aeliana]

That sounds like a Christian board game "Connect the Verses" If you can connect Matt 10:32 and Luke 12:8-10 with Rom 10:9-10 You received a Get Out of Hades Free Card.

 

[civic]

I think obedience is one of the first steps in knowing God. And that the importance of obedience is so much great that it can't be over emphasized. Christ Himself is its our great illustration of obedience.

He “humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross” Phil 2:8

By obedience to Him we are through Him made partakers of His salvation Hebrews 5:9

This act is a supreme test of faith in Christ. Indeed, it is so vitally related that they are in some cases almost synonymous. “Obedience of faith” is a combination used by Paul to express this idea Romans 1:5

Peter designates believers in Christ as “children of obedience” 1 Peter 1:14

I think the bottom line is our faith through obedience Is how we become identified as believers and become a disciple.

Jesus did say: " If you love Me you will keep/obey My commandments. " John 14:15

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

hope this helps !!!

 

[dwight92070]

Do you even read the Scriptures? Rom 6:11 is not separate from Rom 6:2-4. You adding "by faith" in places where Scripture does not put it is intellectually dishonest, because you are attempting to change the meaning of what the Scripture really says. We die to sin when and how God says we die to sin. And Rom 6:2-3 says that we die to sin when we are baptized into Jesus' death. New life begins when Scripture says it does. And Rom 6:4 says that because we died to sin through baptism we can now walk in new life. And this all happens during baptism because of our faith.

Dwight - Wrong. Dying to sin and being baptized into Jesus' death are two different concepts. People who are already saved still need to learn to die to sin - in fact we must do that for the rest of our life. Galatians 5:24 says: "Now those who belong to Christ Jesus (i.e. already saved) have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." Colossians 3:5 also mentions this: "Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry." Dying to sin is a process, not something that happens instantly either at salvation or baptism.
Romans 6:3 is a reference to salvation - entering into the body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13 It is not a reference to water baptism. Romans 6:4-7 is a picture of being buried with Christ and being raised with Christ, represented by water baptism, when we are lowered into the water (buried with Christl) and brought back out of the water (raised up with Christ).

Doug - People who have been baptized into Jesus' death simply means they were born again or saved.
Dwight - Actually this is true, but this is not a reference to water baptism. It is the Holy Spirit who performs this baptism. Water baptism comes later.

I am not pursuing righteousness through the Law or through works. Dwight, you have to be completely blind, or in full rebellion against God, to not accept that there are physical acts that are required to receive salvation, as clearly shown in Rom 10:9-10. Confession "with the mouth" cannot be anything but a physical action that results in receiving salvation. If Scripture dictates that a physical action results in receiving salvation, then who are we to contradict Scripture? Who are we to tell God that He didn't really mean what He said?

Dwight - I am neither blind nor in full rebellion against God and I do NOT accept that there are any physical acts (which is another description of works) required to receive salvation. In Romans 10:10, the words "results in" or "resulting in" are a mistaken translation of the Greek word "eis", so it does NOT say "results in salvation" or "resulting in salvation". The actual translation is "to salvation" or "into salvation", which simply affirms that someone has already been saved.

Do you still not understand that "believes" here is the Greek word pistis, which means faith. Everyone who has faith in Him receives forgiveness of sin. And faith requires the obedience of doing what God says leads to receiving His blessing in order to receive it. It is not just repentance that Scripture says leads to receiving forgiveness. Confession of Jesus as Lord is also required. And being baptized into Christ is also required. Why? BECAUSE SCRIPTURE SAYS SO!

Dwight - Wrong again. The Greek word for "believes" here in Acts 10:43 is NOT "pistis". It is a form of "pistis" - the word "pisteuo" which means just what the NASB says it means: to believe, or entrust. It is NOT the word faith.
Do you still not understand that believing God for salvation requires NO physical act or acts? It is a GIFT and we DO NOTHING physical, no physical work, to obtain a gift. We simply repent and believe in Jesus and the GIFT of salvation IS GIVEN to us. Physical works are commanded AFTER salvation.