Please be clear on your observations.
The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ
- Thread starter civic
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I see you bypassed Revelation. That's fine. That's your free choice.Yeah, I don't believe in soul sleep.
The rich man and Lazarus puts that old idea to bed.
No pun intended.
Diserner
Well-known member
I'm for whatever the Bible reveals and it does not reveal a one size fits all state of consciousness for everyone who has died. It reveals a "sleep" subconsciousness and a Revelation consciousness. There might even be an outright unconsciousness state also, I'm not sure.
So how do you make sense out of all that? My theory is that those who have pleased God (like Martyrs) are rewarded with a conscious state. I'm not sure about those in a less conscious state, like the ones that are in a subconscious "sleep" state.
Anyways, my point is that there is no way that Jesus can have a less conscious state than the souls who exhibited consciousness and awareness in Revelation.
Diserner
Well-known member
Complete
Well-known member
Hello again, @synergy,
OK, I will be clear: I find the tone, manner and content of responses made in this and other threads to be reflective of the atmosphere that prevailed in 2 Timothy 2, which caused Paul to tell Timothy to study to shew Himself to be one who is approved unto God, a workman, that needs not to be ashamed, by rightly dividing the word of Truth.
Of these things put them in remembrance,
charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit,
but to the subverting of the hearers.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings:
for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
And their word will eat as doth a canker:
of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
Who concerning the truth have erred,
saying that the resurrection is past already;
and overthrow the faith of some.
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal,
The Lord knoweth them that are His.
And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver,
but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these,
he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use,
and prepared unto every good work.
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace,
with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive;
but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;
if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will.'
(2Ti 2:14-26)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So you're going to avoid the conversation or continue to respond?
Nope. I explained it as an either/or situation. Not a 50/50 hybrid "one size fits all" situation. Your presuppositions immediately flooded your mind, causing you to not see what I actually wrote.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @discerner,Yeah, I don't believe in soul sleep.
The rich man and Lazarus puts that old idea to bed.
No pun intended.
The illustration of the story of the rich man and Lazarus, given by The Lord Jesus Christ to the Pharisees, was given with the intent of exposing the error of their own teachings, which flies in the face of the truth of the testimony of Scripture generally. Read it, and consider, for it is not teaching, but an exposure.
Apply the same care to this, as you have shown in regard to other subjects. For your dismissiveness does no credit to truth.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Diserner
Well-known member
You're the one being dismissive of Jesus' parable, not me. He told us these things to bring truth, not deception.
Are you SDA?
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @dizerner,
I have studied this subject biblically, very carefully, and so can speak with confidence in regard to it. I am not being dismissive. Consider what is said within that story the Lord told, in the light of the testimony of all Scripture in regard to the state of the dead, and so on, which this illustration brings to light, and you will see that the Lord Jesus Christ is exposing the error of Pharisaic teaching. This is not doctrine.
What is SDA - Seventh day Adventist? If so, No! I am not. I am a dispensationalist in my approach to Scripture.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Complete
Well-known member
Good point.
But in order to avoid that I will have to leave the forum completely, and I would miss everyone: but if the Lord lays it on my heart, I will have to do that.
Diserner
Well-known member
Good point.
But in order to avoid that I will have to leave the forum completely, and I would miss everyone.
You could try ignore.
I've been tempted a few times, but I try to be patient.
I agree that the "manner and content" can be improved on. Conversations can be heated some times because these are topics that are near and dear to us. As for "tone", the internet does not communicate tone so the tone can easily be misinterpreted by the recipient. Thanks for being candid with us.
Like wise.
Now as for what conscious states there are after death, what do you make of conscious two way conversation going on in the following passages (Rev 6:9-11):
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Diserner
Well-known member
That's an incorrect assessment, lol.
I applied "logic" to your view.
There are three possible views logically:
1. Everyone soul sleeps.
2. Some people soul sleep.
3. No one soul sleeps.
But of course you're so smart you break logic, I know, I know.
You get a lot of those "type" on the Internet, lol.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Good point.
But in order to avoid that I will have to leave the forum completely, and I would miss everyone: but if the Lord lays it on my heart, I will have to do that.
I don't want you to do that.
Let's further refine your logic with my inserted blue text:
1. Everyone soul sleeps.
2. Some people soul sleep and others do something else.
3. No one soul sleeps (everyone does something else).
So what in your estimation is that "something else" in light of 2-way conversation Rev 6:9-11 verses, the "sleep" verses, and the rest of the Bible?
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
