The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

[Diserner]

They don't really mean it like orthodox Trinitarians and the Creeds mean it.

Everyone notice this, take note of this statement above here!

"The Creeds."

"Orthodox Trinitarians."


These are not our authority dear Christian family, and pointing to them shows a faulty foundation.

 

[Complete]

'But shun profane and vain babblings:
for they will increase unto more ungodliness.'
(2 Tim.2:16 )

Hello there,

I am so glad that the Bible does not use terms like, 'Hypostatic Union' and others of like difficulty. For it is God's desire that we understand what is written concerning Him, and believe what He says to the saving of our souls.

It was debate and argument of this nature that Timothy was surrounded by in Ephesus, when Paul's last letter arrived, with it's instruction to Timothy to rise above such vain disputation, and study to show himself approved unto God, by rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Diserner]

For it is God's desire that we understand what is written concerning Him

Ammmmen, sister.

And now let us meditate upon the very words of God spoken to us:


5 The same thing, esteem, in yourselves, which also, in Christ Jesus, [ye esteem],--
6 Who, in form of God, subsisting, not, a thing to be seized, accounted the being equal with God,
7 But, himself, emptied, taking, a servant's form, coming to be, in men's likeness;
8 And, in fashion, being found, as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient as far as death, yea, death upon a cross.
9 Wherefore also, God, uplifted him far on high, and favoured him with the name which is above every name,--
(Phil. 2:5-9 ROT)

 

[synergy]

We are born dead in our sins.

We aren't born "separated body from soul" in our sins.

You are confusing spiritual and physical death.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/did-god-christ-die.197/page-3#post-5668

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/did-god-christ-die.197/#post-3278

I was talking about physical death, not spiritual death. Spiritual death is a whole different topic and you are welcome to open a new thread about it.

BTW, are you still holding onto your "zombified" beliefs?

 

[praise_yeshua]

God the Son was, is and will always be two natures in one Divine person.

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Heb 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

What a ridiculous claim.

The Immutability of Christ is an issue of Character. Nothing else.

God forgives.
God changes His mind.
God FORGETS.....

What God doesn't do is change in Character.

Isn't it interesting that depraved man want to make God just like them......

 

[praise_yeshua]

Everyone notice this, take note of this statement above here!

"The Creeds."

"Orthodox Trinitarians."


These are not our authority dear Christian family, and pointing to them shows a faulty foundation.

One minute men want to to claim them and the next they reject them. That is what humans do.

@dizerner is a traditional Arminian. He is let others define him. I can find everything he believes in the records of history somewhere.

Tell me, what is the difference?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ammmmen, sister.

And now let us meditate upon the very words of God spoken to us:


5 The same thing, esteem, in yourselves, which also, in Christ Jesus, [ye esteem],--
6 Who, in form of God, subsisting, not, a thing to be seized, accounted the being equal with God,
7 But, himself, emptied, taking, a servant's form, coming to be, in men's likeness;
8 And, in fashion, being found, as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient as far as death, yea, death upon a cross.
9 Wherefore also, God, uplifted him far on high, and favoured him with the name which is above every name,--
(Phil. 2:5-9 ROT)

Geesh....

Has God been a servant to man before the Incarnation?

You quote words as if you can simply claim victory without applying them to basic reason.....

 

[praise_yeshua]

Thankyou for telling us what we believe. It's always nice to know there is someone out there who can see into our minds.

You've been rambling for how many words now on this subject???? and you want to PRETEND we have to read your mind?

We can read your words.

This is farcical

 

[praise_yeshua]

Everyone notice this, take note of this statement above here!

"The Creeds."

"Orthodox Trinitarians."


These are not our authority dear Christian family, and pointing to them shows a faulty foundation.

You're a traditional Arminian. You are definable through historical narratives. Please tell me what the difference is?

You are living someone's creed....

 

[Rockson]

'But shun profane and vain babblings:
for they will increase unto more ungodliness.'
(2 Tim.2:16 )

Hello there,

I am so glad that the Bible does not use terms like, 'Hypostatic Union' and others of like difficulty.

Yeah I agree. Don't like it either. When men intellectualize things with lofty terms and you do it with one thing and then you do it with another and another it can puff one up in pride knowing the simple common man is below the understanding of such things.

 

[Johann]

Yeah I agree. Don't like it either. When men intellectualize things with lofty terms and you do it with one thing and then you do it with another and another it can puff one up in pride knowing the simple common man is below the understanding of such things.

1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

 

[synergy]

Everyone notice this, take note of this statement above here!

"The Creeds."

"Orthodox Trinitarians."


These are not our authority dear Christian family, and pointing to them shows a faulty foundation.

When the Jerusalem council was convened to resolve issues, did the Bible say this council is the one and only one council that Christians shall have forevermore? Why are you so dead set against Councils whose precedence was the Jerusalem council? Of course there were many fraudulent Councils but they were eventually exposed to be fraudulent with time. The Chalcedon definition of the two natures of Christ has stood the test of time perfectly. Believe it.

 

[synergy]

'But shun profane and vain babblings:
for they will increase unto more ungodliness.'
(2 Tim.2:16 )

Hello there,

I am so glad that the Bible does not use terms like, 'Hypostatic Union' and others of like difficulty. For it is God's desire that we understand what is written concerning Him, and believe what He says to the saving of our souls.

It was debate and argument of this nature that Timothy was surrounded by in Ephesus, when Paul's last letter arrived, with it's instruction to Timothy to rise above such vain disputation, and study to show himself approved unto God, by rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Would you classify the answering of the following question as "profane and vain babbling"?

(Mark 8:29) He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

 

[synergy]

Hi @synergy,

I have read through the link now.

I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died, and His body was placed in the grave (i.e., Hades, Sheol, the place of the dead). I do not believe that there is consciousness in death, so the Lord was as one that sleeps until He was quickened into life again by the Spirit, and rose from the dead. By the Spirit He then visited 'Tartarus', to herald to the spirits (or angelic beings) who are confined there, since before the flood for future judgment, news possibly of His victory over death and the grave (1 Pet. 3:18-20 & Jude 1:6), we are not told.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

When you sleep, would you classify that as being conscious or being unconscious?

 

[Rockson]

Everyone notice this, take note of this statement above here!

"The Creeds."

"Orthodox Trinitarians."


These are not our authority dear Christian family, and pointing to them shows a faulty foundation.

Maybe I shouldn't but to be honest I have a little bit of problem with that myself. I agree when some use the term orthodox they have no wrong intent.....but it sure can does impact the mind a certain way.....the mind interprets orthodox as right and true. If a majority of a collective group believe something some might consider that as gold.

Makes me think of the 12 spies going into the Promised Land. They came back from the Promised Land into the wilderness and 10 of them (the majority) gave the people of Israel a wrong assessment of what should be held as true. Only two of them came back with a good report and a right way of thinking. .....Caleb and Joshua.. Num 14 states they wanted to stone them and also Moses too. Not saying it's not good to seek to get a consensus from a majority, but again caution should be noted.

And perhaps I need to be corrected on this.....but in the time of the creeds and with those who made them.....I pretty much like to say let's just get into the word of God ourselves and not even mention these people from the middle ages. Why? When I read what they did to those who they defined as heretical. .

Had them persecuted or exiled out of countries...sent to Egypt I mean like...WOW.....Jesus may not approved of their belief systems but I question if two wrongs make a right. I may not be looking at the full bigger picture of how to think about the theologians of the Middle Ages but I really don't like the feel of them being my teachers.

 

[synergy]

Maybe I shouldn't but to be honest I have a little bit of problem with that myself. I agree when some use the term orthodox they have no wrong intent.....but it sure can does impact the mind a certain way.....the mind interprets orthodox as right and true. If a majority of a collective group believe something some might consider that as gold.

Although many councils have been proven to be fraudulent with time, some of them have stood the test of time and can rightly be called orthodox. The council of Chalcedon is one such council.

Makes me think of the 12 spies going into the Promised Land. They came back from the Promised Land into the wilderness and 10 of them (the majority) gave the people of Israel a wrong assessment of what should be held as true. Only two of them came back with a good report and a right way of thinking. .....Caleb and Joshua.. Num 14 states they wanted to stone them and also Moses too. Not saying it's not good to seek to get a consensus from a majority, but again caution should be noted.

And perhaps I need to be corrected on this.....but in the time of the creeds and with those who made them.....I pretty much like to say let's just get into the word of God ourselves and not even mention these people from the middle ages. Why? When I read what they did to those who they defined as heretical. .

Had them persecuted or exiled out of countries...sent to Egypt I mean like...WOW.....Jesus may not approved of their belief systems but I question if two wrongs make a right. I may not be looking at the full bigger picture of how to think about the theologians of the Middle Ages but I really don't like the feel of them being my teachers.

We are in a different environment now. The internet has democratized everything. With good critical thinking skills, anyone anywhere can effectively mine and filter information and get almost immediate feedback on his opinion. Of course, as Christians we are blessed with the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Nevertheless, I've found that our schools do not emphasize enough the development of critical thinking skills. They concentrate much more on memorization without the needed underpinning of critical thinking.

 

[Johann]

Maybe I shouldn't but to be honest I have a little bit of problem with that myself. I agree when some use the term orthodox they have no wrong intent.....but it sure can does impact the mind a certain way.....the mind interprets orthodox as right and true. If a majority of a collective group believe something some might consider that as gold.

Makes me think of the 12 spies going into the Promised Land. They came back from the Promised Land into the wilderness and 10 of them (the majority) gave the people of Israel a wrong assessment of what should be held as true. Only two of them came back with a good report and a right way of thinking. .....Caleb and Joshua.. Num 14 states they wanted to stone them and also Moses too. Not saying it's not good to seek to get a consensus from a majority, but again caution should be noted.

And perhaps I need to be corrected on this.....but in the time of the creeds and with those who made them.....I pretty much like to say let's just get into the word of God ourselves and not even mention these people from the middle ages. Why? When I read what they did to those who they defined as heretical. .

Had them persecuted or exiled out of countries...sent to Egypt I mean like...WOW.....Jesus may not approved of their belief systems but I question if two wrongs make a right. I may not be looking at the full bigger picture of how to think about the theologians of the Middle Ages but I really don't like the feel of them being my teachers.

@Rockson-here are my teachers in Christ Jesus. Feeding my inner-man

Free Bible Commentaries and Bible Study Tools

Bible commentaries and Bible study tools by Dr. Bob Utley, Professor of Bible Interpretation. Text, MP3 and video lessons and sermons in 48 languages.

www.freebiblecommentary.org

https://graceambassadors.com/#:~:text=LESSONS%20FROM%20THE%20WORD%20OF%20GOD%0ARIGHTLY%20DIVIDED.

If you want to help-feel free to peruse these links and give me your feedback.

Other than that-I agree with your post.

Johann.

 

[Diserner]

@dizerner is a traditional Arminian. He is let others define him. I can find everything he believes in the records of history somewhere.

Tell me, what is the difference?

I really struggle to take you seriously because you make so many logical errors and then make direct accusations of motive (accusers of brethren).

But I'll try to take you seriously for a second.

I am NOT a Classical Arminian because of any councils NOR do I point to any council.

LABELS are NOT logically proof you are DERIVING authority from previous traditions, but rather QUICK AND HANDY ways to COMMUNICATE the essentials of what you believe.

So most of your objections are non sequiturs or accusing the motives of the heart ("You did this for evil reasons, I know you did!!!!")_

 

[praise_yeshua]

Maybe I shouldn't but to be honest I have a little bit of problem with that myself. I agree when some use the term orthodox they have no wrong intent.....but it sure can does impact the mind a certain way.....the mind interprets orthodox as right and true. If a majority of a collective group believe something some might consider that as gold.

Makes me think of the 12 spies going into the Promised Land. They came back from the Promised Land into the wilderness and 10 of them (the majority) gave the people of Israel a wrong assessment of what should be held as true. Only two of them came back with a good report and a right way of thinking. .....Caleb and Joshua.. Num 14 states they wanted to stone them and also Moses too. Not saying it's not good to seek to get a consensus from a majority, but again caution should be noted.

And perhaps I need to be corrected on this.....but in the time of the creeds and with those who made them.....I pretty much like to say let's just get into the word of God ourselves and not even mention these people from the middle ages. Why? When I read what they did to those who they defined as heretical. .

Had them persecuted or exiled out of countries...sent to Egypt I mean like...WOW.....Jesus may not approved of their belief systems but I question if two wrongs make a right. I may not be looking at the full bigger picture of how to think about the theologians of the Middle Ages but I really don't like the feel of them being my teachers.

There more historical information for these types of arguments than most any other "narrative" found in the early Church. As such, Orthodoxy is relevant.

There are plenty of other areas that have little to no information. As such, there are not as relative.

 

[Johann]

Ammmmen, sister.

And now let us meditate upon the very words of God spoken to us:


5 The same thing, esteem, in yourselves, which also, in Christ Jesus, [ye esteem],--
6 Who, in form of God, subsisting, not, a thing to be seized, accounted the being equal with God,
7 But, himself, emptied, taking, a servant's form, coming to be, in men's likeness;
8 And, in fashion, being found, as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient as far as death, yea, death upon a cross.
9 Wherefore also, God, uplifted him far on high, and favoured him with the name which is above every name,--
(Phil. 2:5-9 ROT)

What is ROT?