I don't think you are understanding what I mean. I was speaking of Christ in His fullness. Jesus Christ is God both God and man in one person. You cannot say that person is a man because that person is God. Yet, the very reason we know He is both God and man is because of the Incarnation. It is here we see him functioning solely as a man would in every way except without sin of course. For all intents and purposes He was just a man while on earth. I think you said yourself, He never stopped being God ie. didn't dispossess Himself of being God, but did stop working as God.
The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ
- Thread starter civic
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What exactly are you saying? Are you saying that our human natures are only in our souls and not in our bodies? If so, Heb 2:17 disagrees with you.
(Heb 2:17-18) Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
All things would include bodies.
and neither does Dr Craig. He said, "instead of a human mind the Logos takes up residence". No replacement.
Already explained. That is an anthropomorphism.
Why not? God does not have that capability?
I've done that countless times. Christ's Personhood was, is, and always will be the Uncreated Word of God. How many times must I repeat that statement.
Although Heb 2:17 doesn't explicitly say "soul" it does include soul because how else can He "be made like His brethren" "in all things"?
See above. I welcome any critiques you can send my way.How about a little less denouncing of others and detail the hows and whys of your beliefs in your own words and not just the recitation of creeds or what others say. Let's see if you even know why you believe what you believe.
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Which Bible version are you using? I don't see the word "tempt" in my version. Anyways, an attempt by the devil to tempt Christ did occur but that's as far as it went.
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. (NKJV)
and neither was Jesus. You're watching too many Walking Dead episodes.
Heb 2 aligns perfectly with John 1:1 in that Jesus' Personhood was, is, and always will be the Uncreated Word of God.
I have said it so many times and you still don't know what I'm saying? Our humanity originates from our souls, our bodies enable that humanity (personhood) to be expressed and interacted with.
I disagree. I see him saying instead of having a human mind in the Incarnation He had God's mind. Who can know the mind of God but God. We can have the mind of Christ because it is a human mind, not the Logos mind. Christ had His own human mind in the Incarnation, anything else He would not have been like us.
You have not in the least explained it. We are discussing how Christ got a soul in the Incarnation to be as a man. Where did that soul come from? Did God create that soul as He created our souls? If so, then you have a Christ who is half eternal and half created.
For the reason I just mentioned. Either God the Son is eternal in the totality of His person or he is half and half.
That was my point. It's all you do. You make a statement as if that's all that can or should be said but give no reason as to the whys or hows of anything. I have explained in detail as to why I believe the Logos is Eternally Spirit and Soul.
The Word is God
1. Immutable. You cannot attach a second nature to that person without compromising that attribute.
2. Eternal. You cannot attach a second nature to that person at a point in time and still say He is the same eternal person.
If you disagree and think the Word can have the second nature attached at a point in time then show in detail how the above can occur without compromising His person and not simply with a "God can do anything He wants" type response. Nor simply say He had to be human like us, we know and agree at that point. It's the how He got that second nature, why He has a second nature and when did He get that second nature we disagree on.
What you're doing is separating soul from body which is nothing less than the definition of death. That's exactly what you're saying when you claim that the preincarnate Word had a soul. There's no denying that the definition of death is seperation of body and soul and any attempt to redefine it will be denied.
For something to be replaced, it had to exist before. Dr Craig is not saying that a human mind existed and was replaced by a Logos mind. Therefore, both your beliefs align with Neo-Apollinarianism.
God creates all souls without exception. That does not mean that Christ is a blended 50/50 hybrid with confusion of natures. His two natures maintained their integrity in the Incarnation and thus it can be said that Christ is 100% Divine and 100% human.
The Council of Chalcedon explained it best but I'll highlight one or two aspects of it. Christ's two natures maintained their integrity in the Incarnation. In other words, Christ did not become a blended 50/50 hybrid with confusion and destabilization of natures. As such, his Divine Personhood and Divine Nature maintained their Immutable and Eternal properties. Furthermore, because there is no separation of natures in Christ, his human nature was permeated with Divine nature thus healing human nature.
civic
Well-known member
They deny His Divinity- He had no "superpowers" No usage of them. Only operated like the Apostles did so to speak. Just as an ordinary man. That is their position. So when they say He remained fully God its a facade. They don't really mean it like orthodox Trinitarians and the Creeds mean it.
It's not only a facade but they are also unwittingly promoting death. They are perfectly ok with claiming that the preincarnate Word had his soul separated from his body which is nothing less than claiming he was dead. Lord have mercy.
Thankyou for telling us what we believe. It's always nice to know there is someone out there who can see into our minds.
Complete
Well-known member
'And the angel said unto her,
Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb,
and bring forth a son,
and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great,
and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:
And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
Then said Mary unto the angel,
How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
shall be called the Son of God.'
(Luk 1:30-35)
Praise God!
Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb,
and bring forth a son,
and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great,
and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:
And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
Then said Mary unto the angel,
How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
shall be called the Son of God.'
(Luk 1:30-35)
Praise God!
civic
Well-known member
When someone claims Jesus was fully God on this earth for 33 years and denies He was equal with the Father in His Deity having all the exact attributes then we can know it’s a facade.Thankyou for telling us what we believe. It's always nice to know there is someone out there who can see into our minds.
civic
Well-known member
I’ll check back this evening. My brother is taking me to play Spanish Bay Golf Course at Pebble Beach for my birthday
It’s right on the historic 17 mile drive.
www.pebblebeach.com
It’s right on the historic 17 mile drive.
The Links at Spanish Bay | Pebble Beach Resorts
Meandering among the sweeping sand dunes along 17-Mile Drive, The Links at Spanish Bay unveils some of the most spectacular seaside views in Pebble Beach.
Complete
Well-known member
'And it came to pass, that after three days
they found Him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the doctors,
both hearing them, and asking them questions.
And all that heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.
(Luk 2:46-47)
'And He said unto them,
How is it that ye sought Me?
wist ye not that I must be about My Father's business?'
(Luk 2:49)
Praise God!
they found Him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the doctors,
both hearing them, and asking them questions.
And all that heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.
(Luk 2:46-47)
'And He said unto them,
How is it that ye sought Me?
wist ye not that I must be about My Father's business?'
(Luk 2:49)
Praise God!
Diserner
Well-known member
Tell me how God inspired the Word and not simply a "the Holy Spirit did it" type response.
Tell me how God created the world and not simply a "God's power did it" type response.
Tell me how 2 + 2 = 4 and not simply a "math and logic" type response.
Tell me how Christian posters say so many silly things and not simply a "being little thoughtless silly bears" type response.
Tell me how X happened but you're not allowed to use the right answer Y.
And make it snappy.
Diserner
Well-known member
We are born dead in our sins.
We aren't born "separated body from soul" in our sins.
You are confusing spiritual and physical death.
Diserner
Well-known member
When someone claims Jesus was fully God on this earth for 33 years and denies He was equal with the Father in His Deity having all the exact attributes then we can know it’s a facade.
You're denying the attribute of God of self-limiting.
It's the same logic Calvinists use to say there is no free will, that it impinges on God's Sovereignty.
Do you know why Calvinists are wrong?
Because God can self-limit.
civic
Well-known member
No I’m not denying that lol I have been pointing out how the Father limits what He does
