The Eternal Son

[DavidTree]

Have you every tried to "play back" a melody before? I enjoy music. I play a few instruments myself. I'm not as good as I once was due to some nerve issues in my arm but I do still "hear music" as well as I ever have.

Sometimes we think we really know a melody and we don't. At least not as well as we can. It is experience that builds such in our lives. Experience is essential to understanding.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Senses must be exercised. Senses must be "honed". This never ends in our life here.

Have you ever considered that is actually what God was doing when He created Adam and Eve? God was put them in a environment where it was essential for them to learn their surroundings.

God didn't Adam nor Eve with absolute knowledge. They had to learn through experience. God designed us this way for at least one reason. This thought has "flavored" my theology for a long time.

We only value what we learn through experience. We often ignore what we're told until we experience it first hand. Seeking is what opens the door. Living is what makes it real to us. Until we do, it is nothing more than someone else's.......

We must own such or we can't love it. It is nothing more than conjecture to us until it is experienced.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Senses must be exercised. Senses must be "honed". This never ends in our life here.

And thus why many cannot understand, though they try very hard thru intellectual apparatus of religion and institutions.

As evidenced on these forums, few are willing to have their spiritual senses trained.
Trusting in religion and the majority rule is where most christians dwell under.

 

[DavidTree]

Ever heard of a geneology before? It says Jesus is descended from Adam who is the Son of God.

Luke 3
23Jesus Himself was about thirty years old when He began His ministry.
He was regarded as the son of Joseph,
the son of Heli,
24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum,
the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,
26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel,
the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,
28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim,
the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,
30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha,
the son of Nathan, the son of David,
32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,
the son of Sala,e the son of Nahshon,
33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin,f the son of Arni,g
the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,
34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg,
the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,
36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared,
the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan,
38the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

I have the correct view of Jesus. You have made Jesus into an idol. Repent.

What is the correct view of Jesus?

 

[praise_yeshua]

And thus why many cannot understand, though they try very hard thru intellectual apparatus of religion and institutions.

As evidenced on these forums, few are willing to have their spiritual senses trained.
Trusting in religion and the majority rule is where most christians dwell under.

I'm all for reason. Even God told Israel "let us reason together".

Without faith nothing goes anywhere. Seeking requires faith. Faith gives us the assurance that what we are seeking is real and that God rewards us for our search.

Many don't seek it by faith. Sometimes faith ... real tangible and meaningful faith in God begins with admitting we just don't know something. Everyone thinks they know something and few want to know where they are wrong. What often is worse is commiting to a belief to the point of never questioning it again. Questions are good. They build certainty. Questions get answered.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm all for reason. Even God told Israel "let us reason together".

Without faith nothing goes anywhere. Seeking requires faith. Faith gives us the assurance that what we are seeking is real and that God rewards us for our search.

Many don't seek it by faith. Sometimes faith ... real tangible and meaningful faith in God begins with admitting we just don't know something. Everyone thinks they know something and few want to know where they are wrong. What often is worse is commiting to a belief to the point of never questioning it again. Questions are good. They build certainty. Questions get answered.

Questions are good. They build certainty. Questions get answered.

Amen = Simple as 1,2,3

#1 - God calls us to find reason with HIM and His words and for the Purpose of Salvation = Isaiah 1:18

“Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they will be as white as snow; though they are as red as crimson, they will become like wool.

#2 - God also calls us to reason amongst ourselves/man to man = based on God's words = Acts 19:8

And Paul went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the
kingdom of God.

#3 - Human reasoning can leave us with the wrong answers = Matthew 16:8

But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread?

 

[Runningman]

What is the correct view of Jesus?

Jesus is a man who was chosen, anointed, empowered, and exalted by God. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's the gist of it.

 

[Runningman]

Wrong, as always.

Luke 3:23​

“And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,”

But God was his Father! The "likeness of" sinful flesh (free from Adam's sinful flesh) came through being made of a woman through Mary his mother.

Galatians 4:4​

“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”

That's "only" idol that heaven will accept a man loving and worshipping!

Deuteronomy 5:7​

“Thou shalt have none other gods before me.”

1st Corinthians 8:4​

“As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.”

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

Scripture teaches there is no other God aside from the Father. You are not understanding any verses in their proper context.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

 

[dwight92070]

Wrong, as always.

Luke 3:23​

“And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,”

But God was his Father! The "likeness of" sinful flesh (free from Adam's sinful flesh) came through being made of a woman through Mary his mother.

Galatians 4:4​

“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”

That's "only" idol that heaven will accept a man loving and worshipping!

Deuteronomy 5:7​

“Thou shalt have none other gods before me.”

1st Corinthians 8:4​

“As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.”

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

Where does the scripture say that the "likeness of sinful flesh" comes through a woman? Or a man?

 

[DavidTree]

Where does the scripture say that the "likeness of sinful flesh" comes through a woman? Or a man?

It comes thru either man or woman since both are in sinful flesh.
However,
from God's Authorized Judgment:
The difference is that man is the head of the woman
Adam was first created and the woman came from Adam = The man is the Head and Responsibility lies with him FIRST

This Foundation of Truth was firmly established by God in Genesis chapter 3

 

[Red Baker]

@dwight92070

Where does the scripture say that the "likeness of sinful flesh" comes through a woman? Or a man?

Romans 8:3​

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”

Galatians 4:4​

“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,”

After all. Jesus was indeed born of Mary ~ he was 100% man, and 100% God since God was his Father, conceived by Him, by his almighty power, and Mary his mother.

Scripture teaches there is no other God aside from the Father. You are not understanding any verses in their proper context.

So, Jesus was both the Son of God, and the everlasting Father of all things!

Isaiah 9:6​

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

Do not accuse me of not understanding the scriptures in their proper context, when it is you that's rejecting and denying Jesus' Deity as the True God and the "ONLY" God man or angels as far as that goes, will ever see. You will lose this debate with me, since you reject Jesus Christ as being the True God and the only way to eternal life in the world to come.

 

[Jim]

Scripture teaches there is no other God aside from the Father. You are not understanding any verses in their proper context.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This [the Son Jesus Christ] is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[civic]

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This [the Son Jesus Christ] is the true God, and eternal life.

Amen brother !!!

Jesus is eternal life, He is life. We see this over and over again in the Apostle Johns writings. In Him was LIFE and that LIFE was the light of man. Life of the world, the Bread of LIFE,My words are spirit and they are LIFE, I AM the way,the truth and the LIFE,The LIFE was manifested and we proclaim to you the ETERNAL Life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us- The Prologue of 1st John. So we see that when John uses the phrase True God and Eternal Life together in 1 John 5:20 that He is referring to Christ as the closest antecedent making Him the True God and Eternal Life.

Also we see that when we search the NT that Eternal Life is never used of the Father without the Son but we see that Eternal Life is used over and over with Jesus where the Father is never mentioned. This makes a solid case for Jesus in 1 John 5:20 as the True God and Eternal Life.

1 John 5:20
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true — even in his Son Jesus Christ. He(Jesus) is the true God and eternal life.


On behalf of seeing χριστος as the antecedent are the following arguments: (1) Although it is true that αληθινος θεος is not elsewhere referred to Christ, αληθεια is, and is so in Johannine literature (John 14:6).

29 Winer-Moulton, 195.
Further, αληθινος θεος is not a "constant.. epithet" as Winer supposes, being found only in John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20! (2) Christ is also said to be ζωη in John's writings John 11:25; 14:6; 1 John 1:1-2), an epithet nowhere else used of the Father. (3) The demonstrative pronoun, ουτος, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent.For what it is worth, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω is the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. 32 The issue cannot be decided on grammar alone. But suffice it to say here that there are no grammatical reasons for denying that αληθινος θεος is descriptive of Jesus Christ.



My top 10 biblical and exegetical reasons Jesus Christ is the True God and Eternal Life.

1st- Jesus is called God in the writings of John(1:1,20:28,1 John 5:20)

2nd- Jesus is called Eternal Life over and over again in Johns writings

3rd- John opens up his epistle with the Eternal life(Jesus) that was with the Father in the beginning and was manifest to the disciples(1 John 1:1-5)

4th- John ends his epistle with Jesus who is eternal life and only is eternal life found in Him who is the true God.

5th- never is eternal life used of the Father alone. When the Father is included the Son is always mentioned together with the Father making them equal. Equality with the Father was not something Jesus needed to grasp at as He already possessed complete Deity as God.(Phil 2, Col 2:9)

6th- John would not leave his readers with any ambiguity warning them to guard themselves from idols(5:21) So this would be clear his reference was to those who reject Jesus as the true God. They are the idoloters and antichrists John writes of in his epistles.

7th- Jesus is also the True God and the True one in 1 John. Jesus is the true light which brings light to all men (John 1:9) Jesus is the truth (John 14:6)Jesus is the true vine (John 15:1). Jesus is the true witness of God (John 18:37) He who is true (Revelation 3:7) Jesus is the faithful and true witness (Revelation 3:14)Jesus is Lord God Almighty, Just and true are your ways(Revelation 15:3) Jesus is faithful and true(Revelation 19:11).

8th- [In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3 . . . ) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent.FWIW, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω IS the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. Wallace.

9th- Netbible- Wallace
If This one in 5:20 is understood as referring to Jesus, it forms an inclusion with the prologue, which introduced the reader to "the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us." Thus it appears best to understand the pronoun This one in 5:20 as a reference to Jesus Christ. The christological affirmation which results is striking, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the author (see John 1:1 and 20:28): This One [Jesus Christ] is the true God and eternal life.

10th- This/ He (autos)Jesus Christ (the last-named Person) is the true God


Conclusion: So the most logical conclusion is that it refers to Jesus as the true God. Not only is this Wallace's conclusion from Johns usage of outos but He is the closest antecedent (most times in the NT this principal holds true). Eternal Life is never used of the Father alone in John’s writings and only a couple of times does John include the Father with the Son regarding eternal life. John opens up his epistles describing the "eternal life" who was with the Father in the beginning and then ends his epistle with eternal life identifying Jesus as the true God and eternal life. John then says this in the last verse:

1 John 5:21-Guard yourselves from idols- Now why would he leave any ambiguity in verse 20 as to the identity of the true God and eternal life then turn around commanding them to protect themselves from idolatry? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless John is identifying Jesus as the true God and refuting the Gnostics of his day who denied the Incarnation.This is the last of the contrasts of which the Epistle is so full. We have had light and darkness, truth and falsehood, love and hate, God and the world, Christ and Antichrist, life and death, doing righteousness and doing sin, the children of God and the children of the devil, the spirit of truth and the spirit of error, the believer untouched by the evil one and the world lying in the evil one; and now at the close we have what in that age was the ever present and pressing contrast between the true God Jesus Christ and the idols.

hope this helps !!!

 

[dwight92070]

I agree that Jesus is the true God. So why is the name "Jesus" never used for God in the Old Testament?

 

[civic]

I agree that Jesus is the true God. So why is the name "Jesus" never used for God in the Old Testament?

Jesus is the human name given to to the Eternal Son at His birth

 

[praise_yeshua]

I agree that Jesus is the true God. So why is the name "Jesus" never used for God in the Old Testament?

The name Jesus comes to English through Latin.

Joshua or Yeshua is what you're looking for. The name Joshua is throughout the OT

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus is the human name given to to the Eternal Son at His birth

In many ways "Joshua the son of Nun" is one of the best "precursors" to the advent of Jesus.

 

[Jim]

I agree that Jesus is the true God. So why is the name "Jesus" never used for God in the Old Testament?

Jesus was the name given to the man who was born of Mary impregnated by the power of the Holy Spirit. It would have been a terribly confusing thing to introduce the name in the OT, given what really took place with the birth of Jesus, i.e., God coming to earth in the form of a human being.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus was the name given to the man who was born of Mary impregnated by the power of the Holy Spirit. It would have been a terribly confusing thing to introduce the name in the OT, given what really took place with the birth of Jesus, i.e., God coming to earth in the form of a human being.

Immanuel/Emmanuel is of distinction in this. Joshua was a common name among Jews

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

No other name of Christ our Lord is so distinct as "Immanuel". In Greek it has its origins in theos....θεός

 

[Runningman]

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This [the Son Jesus Christ] is the true God, and eternal life.

Son = Jesus
of
God = Father

Jesus is the son of the Father. That's why they are called Father and Son. "Son of God" refers to the Father being God, not Jesus being God. So the "This is the True God" refers to the previously mentioned God in the context, which is the Father. John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, and Eph. 4:6 put guardrails up to make your interpretation a Scritpurally false opinion.

 

[Runningman]

I'm all for reason. Even God told Israel "let us reason together".

Without faith nothing goes anywhere. Seeking requires faith. Faith gives us the assurance that what we are seeking is real and that God rewards us for our search.

Many don't seek it by faith. Sometimes faith ... real tangible and meaningful faith in God begins with admitting we just don't know something. Everyone thinks they know something and few want to know where they are wrong. What often is worse is commiting to a belief to the point of never questioning it again. Questions are good. They build certainty. Questions get answered.

It's refreshing to see you recognize this. You clearly have a rare sense of self-awareness most of your group do not share with you. Having faith is something a lot of people have who, unfortunately, have placed their faith in something that has lead them astray. It doesn't need to be a public spectacle, but the kind of prayer God wants to answer is a prayer for truth and wisdom. You can ask that. Be prepared to have some humility and courage. I highly doubt you will like the answers God gives you, if you will listen.

 

[Red Baker]

@dwight92070

I agree that Jesus is the true God. So why is the name "Jesus" never used for God in the Old Testament?

Very simple~God's Son was born in TIME around two thousand years ago, until then, God had no Son, only according to his eternal purposes ~ Jesus was born of Mary and we have the record of that birth, the only record there is to see and know when exactly Jesus became the Son of God.