The Elect
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Johann
Well-known member
Wouldn't say that and I must admit-Got Questions have it right- William Lane GraigSo there you have it. A non exhaustive list of reasons why the penal substitution model of atonement is anti-christ in nature and not representative of the Gospel message or Jesus, the most express revelation of God. On the cross God did not punish Jesus in our place. Jesus didn’t get the punishment we deserve. He got the punishment humans decided to give him. But the Divine is faithful and instead of reacting with violence, God was in Christ (they are one), reconciling the world to God’s self. The blood of Jesus shows us a better way, a more Christlike way. A way of non violence and peace. The way of grace and the Kingdom of God.
Richard
Active member
Actually this could lead into a good study. I like the two verses you quoted and it makes me think of the the flood.
Revelation 14:11 Is what I needed the other day when I was trying to find a good description of hell. Yeah there'll be a lot of hissy fits going on there. But we'll have peace, love and joy like a river
Diserner
Well-known member
Analogies are not 1 to 1 correlations.
Else you are a stinky woolly animal with hooves.
civic
Well-known member
Wrong again
Diserner
Well-known member
If you are not trusting in Christ's atonement, wherein he suffers the punishment your sins deserve, you will not being experience any peace, joy or love.
If you have replaced the atonement of Christ with a feel good or watered down version that relies on your own works, and lessens the holiness of God.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
And they don't even know then. IF they are Born again as Saved Christians, THEN they're aware that they were "Elect". WIth Calvinism, is's always "READ ANOTHER BOOK TO UNDERSTAND"!!!!
Chuckle!!! I just found out that to Calvinists, "Born again", and "being Saved" are two different things!!!! "Theology" - you GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!
Diserner
Well-known member
I know you are, but what am I.
Richard
Active member
I would say they're human just like all the rest of us and sometimes they make mistakes just like all the rest of us. But overall I think they do a good job for what their purposes.
If you want to go deep into a subject as I'm sure you well know you use your own resources right? I never think it's a good idea to criticize another man's Ministry. Sometimes pride and our flesh will lead us down that path.
The CEO of Got Questions Is definitely a man of integrity.
Richard
Active member
Say what? I didn't expect you to see the point but I thought you could overlook it by saying something more intelligent than that. But I've been wrong before.
Richard
Active member
Are you going to have a hissy fit? Because it sounds like you're getting ready to.
Richard
Active member
You got a lot of IF ing going on there
I could while away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers,
Consulting with the rain;
And my head I'd be a scratchin'
While my thoughts are busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain.
I'd unravel ev'ry riddle for my
Individdle
In trouble or in pain
With the thoughts that you'll be thinkin'
You could be another Lincoln
If you only had a brain.
Oh, I, could tell you why
The oceans near the shore
I could think of things I'd never
Thunk before,
And then I'd sit down and think some more.
I would not be just a muffin',
My head all full of stuffin',
My heart all full of pain;
And perhaps I'd deserve you and be
Even worthy even you
If I only had a brain.
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Harold Arlen / Yip Harburg
Diserner
Well-known member
You're not making rational sense anymore, you're posting nonsense.
I've prayed you see the true Gospel and repent of your man-made ideas about God.
God bless you and best wishes for your spiritual salvation.
Johann
Well-known member
Correct-pride comes in many forms and manifestations-it is even lurking in us, if we are brutally honest with ourselves.
Richard
Active member
Not personally only from his blog. Here's his bio:
Who is S. Michael Houdmann? | GotQuestions.org
Who is S. Michael Houdmann (S Michael Houdmann)? What is the connection between GotQuestions.org and S. Michael Houdmann?
www.gotquestions.org
Diserner
Well-known member
So does God, friend, so does God.
If we believe on Christ, the just suffering for the unjust, he who knew no sin becoming sin for us; if we repent of our sins; if we maintain fast the hope of the Gospel; if we hear his voice today harden not our hearts.
That powerful little word "if."
Johann
Well-known member
Thanks brother-bookmarked it and will peruse it later.Not personally only from his blog. Here's his bio:
Who is S. Michael Houdmann? | GotQuestions.org
Who is S. Michael Houdmann (S Michael Houdmann)? What is the connection between GotQuestions.org and S. Michael Houdmann?www.gotquestions.org
J.
Aeliana
Well-known member
Been there done that have the T-shirt to proved it.Something you might want to consider-
THE ELECTION OF GOD
A CHOSEN PURPOSE
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all
men,”
- Titus 2:11
1. God’s Two-Fold Purpose
a. God has a two-fold purpose which includes Israel and the Body of Christ
b. It was purposed before the world began - Titus 1:2; 1 Cor 2:7; 2 Tim 1:9
c. The cross is central to God’s purpose - Heb 9:15-17; Rom 4:22-25
i. Whosoever believe on the Son - John 6:40; 8:24
ii. After we believed - Eph 1:13 – faith comes by hearing – Rom 10:17
iii. The mystery of his will – Eph 1:9-10
2. The Election of God is a Purpose
a. Election means choice – God’s purpose was before the world, not you. 2 Tim
1:9
b. The purpose of God according to election - Rom 9:6-15 His prophetic
purpose
c. We preach Christ crucified: the chosen = those in Christ - 1 Cor 1:23-28
d. Called according to his purpose – Romans 8:28
e. According to the purpose – Eph 1:11-12
3. The Elect of God
a. Israel – Isaiah 45:4, 65:9 (God’s servants Lev 25:55) Matt 24:22-24;
i. It is the scattered strangers of Israel, the “little flock” - 1 Peter 1:2
ii. The Father’s good pleasure to give you… - Luke 12:32 – why? Mat
21:43
b. Christ – Isaiah 42:1 1 Peter 2:6
i. We are chosen in Christ (mentioned 3x) – Eph 1:4-6
ii. What was before the world? Eph 3:9-10; Rom 16:25
c. The Danger of Mixing God’s Purposes
i. Calvin thought the church was Israel – Mat 26:28; Heb 8:8, 9:28
ii. Denying the cross through another gospel – Mark 9:32 & 43, Gal
2:21
4. God’s Purpose Fulfilled in Christ
a. The cross of Christ is the center point of God’s two-fold purpose.
b. Man perishes because he rejects God’s provision.
i. Choose life – Deut 30:19
ii. God desired repentance - Matt 11:20 & Luke 19:41 & Luke 19:41
iii. The priests rejected God’s counsel - Luke 7:39
c. God desires all men saved – 1 Tim 2:4; Titus 2:11; Eze 18:27; 2 Peter 3:9
d. The only time ‘foreordained’ is mentioned it is Christ – 1 Peter 1:19-20
e. God’s purpose fulfilled in Christ – not man. – Eph 3:10-11
f. God is wiser than man, this is how his purpose gets accomplished – Rom
11:33
Search
graceambassadors.com
Johann
Well-known member
The "if" is in the Conditional clause brother-just look them up and I agree-and so are the God of the Imperatives-that "if" is full of dunamis.
