The Doctrine of Free Will

[synergy]

You don't choose to believe anything of your own free will. Try it.

The lost do have the ability to choose to repent and believe the Gospel. They might not have a full free will at that stage of their lives but they can still choose to believe. It's either that or Christ was mocking the lost's inability to do so when he exhorted them to repent and believe the Gospel.

(Mar 1:14) And after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom of God,
(Mar 1:15) and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent, and believe the gospel.

 

[civic]

The origin of the heresy known as the sinful nature is from Augustine.

Augustine forsook his position on free will, saying “I have tried hard to maintain the free choice of the human will, but the grace of God prevailed,”49 he began to influence the rest of the Church with the idea of natural inability, which view the Church did not previously believe at all. The doctrine of free will was soon replaced with the idea of a ruined, corrupt, sinful nature.

Regarding the doctrine of a sinful nature, Charles Finney said, “This doctrine is a stumbling-block both to the church and the world, infinitely dishonorable to God, and an abomination alike to God and the human intellect, and should be banished from every pulpit, and from every formula of doctrine, and from the world. It is a relic of heathen philosophy, and was foisted in among the doctrines of Christianity by Augustine, as everyone may know who will take the trouble to examine for himself.”50

Harry Conn said, “Augustine, after studying the philosophy of Manes, the Persian philosopher, brought into the church from Manichaeism the doctrine of original sin.”51

The corruption of our nature, or the loss of our free will, Augustine credited to the original sin of Adam. Augustine said that the “free choice of the will was present in that man who was the first to be formed… But after he sinned by that free will, we who have descended from his progeny have been plunged into necessity.”52 “By Adam’s transgression, the freedom of’ the human will has been completely lost.”53 “By the greatness of the first sin, we have lost the freewill to love God.” And finally he said, “by subverting the rectitude in which he was created, he is followed with the punishment of not being able to do right” and “the freedom to abstain from sin has been lost as a punishment of sin.”54

See the historical facts in the early church below on free will and sinful nature.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/gnosticism-in-the-early-church-which-denied-free-will.1063/#post-33915

 

[synergy]

The origin of the heresy known as the sinful nature is from Augustine.

Augustine forsook his position on free will, saying “I have tried hard to maintain the free choice of the human will, but the grace of God prevailed,”49 he began to influence the rest of the Church with the idea of natural inability, which view the Church did not previously believe at all. The doctrine of free will was soon replaced with the idea of a ruined, corrupt, sinful nature.

Our good friend Augustine is just too hilarious. He thinks that it's within God's grace to consider man, his creation, too stupid and incapable of making choices between good and evil that even dogs have the capability of doing.

 

[civic]

Our good friend Augustine is just too hilarious. He thinks that it's within God's grace to consider man, his creation, too stupid and incapable of making choices between good and evil that even dogs have the capability of doing.

It’s crazy to think how gullible the church was to buy into his theology on man.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The lost do have the ability to choose to repent and believe the Gospel. They might not have a full free will at that stage of their lives but they can still choose to believe. It's either that or Christ was mocking the lost's inability to do so when he exhorted them to repent and believe the Gospel.

(Mar 1:14) And after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom of God,
(Mar 1:15) and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent, and believe the gospel.

No, they don't have the ability. That's Pelagianism.

John 6:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

I didn't choose not to believe. I didn't choose to believe. I simply didn't believe. Then God opened my eyes and ears, and I believed. To God be the glory. ALL of the glory. Not 99.9% with 0.1% my free will.

 

[brightfame52]

No, you do your own believing or unbelieving. God doesn't do for you what He tells you to do. He does supply the needed power (grace) so that when He presents the truth you can make the choice for yourself without coercion or manipulation from any and all sources including ones own sinful bent.

Okay then, if your doing your own believing is what Justified you b4 God, thats works salvation. Thats something you did. Your choice saved you, WORKS

 

[brightfame52]

I asked you about your "God is Sovereign over all wills!" statement and 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is ... not willing that any should perish" and not about your life story. I have no idea about your life story nor do I keep tabs on your life story. So again, in what way am I incorrect in thinking you are a Universalist based on your statement and 2 Peter 3:9 which I presume you believe?

Yes He is Sovereign over all wills, how does that make me a universalists ? Again, you are being misleading, even to bring it up. Again of you condition your salvation with God on anything you did, its works and apostacy.

 

[synergy]

No, they don't have the ability. That's Pelagianism.

Here we go with the strawmen.

John 6:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

I didn't choose not to believe. I didn't choose to believe. I simply didn't believe. Then God opened my eyes and ears, and I believed. To God be the glory. ALL of the glory. Not 99.9% with 0.1% my free will.

Instead of throwing verses against verses hoping your interpretation of your verse wins out, why don't we analyze the verses I originally sent out. We can get to your verse afterwards.

(Mar 1:14) And after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom of God,
(Mar 1:15) and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent, and believe the gospel.

How do explain Christ calling out to everyone lost, within hearing range, to repent and believe if they do not possess any ability to do so?

 

[synergy]

Yes He is Sovereign over all wills, how does that make me a universalists ? Again, you are being misleading, even to bring it up. Again of you condition your salvation with God on anything you did, its works and apostacy.

Do you believe 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is ... not willing that any should perish"? Yes or No?
If yes then 2 Pet 3:9 combined with your "God is Sovereign over all wills!" statement confirms your Universalism.
If no then you do not believe 2 Pet 3:9. That confirms that you allow TULIP to override the Bible wherever TULIP conflicts with the Bible.
Which is it?

It's interesting that Calvinist sites do not allow for the mention of Universalism. That's because they want to avoid situations like this.

 

[civic]

Here we go with the strawmen.

Instead of throwing verses against verses hoping your interpretation of your verse wins out, why don't we analyze the verses I originally sent out. We can get to your verse afterwards.

(Mar 1:14) And after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom of God,
(Mar 1:15) and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent, and believe the gospel.

How do explain Christ calling out to everyone lost, within hearing range, to repent and believe if they do not possess any ability to do so?

Amen

 

[synergy]

Amen

It's interesting that Calvinist sites do not allow for the mention of Universalism. I have a strong suspicion that it's because they want to avoid situations like this where Calvinists are caught between a rock and a hard place like here.

 

[Aeliana]

Scripture? I read the Bible when I was an atheist. I didn't believe any of it. It was hogwash to me. No "free will" was involved - I didn't CHOOSE not to believe it. I simply didn't believe it.

Neither did I later choose to believe it of my own free will. God changed me.

No Excuse – Romans 1:19-23​

Because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures (Romans 1:19-23).

Let me see if I have this right... according to Paul we have the free will not to believe. But you're saying we do not have the free will to enable us to believe.

Sounds like futile speculations to me.

 

[civic]

It's interesting that Calvinist sites do not allow for the mention of Universalism. I have a strong suspicion that it's because they want to avoid situations like this where Calvinists are caught between a rock and a hard place like here.

Yes the banned topics lol. What’s the point if you can’t defend your faith.

Or having sections where certain groups are not allowed to post.

Fear factor at work

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

How do explain Christ calling out to everyone lost, within hearing range, to repent and believe if they do not possess any ability to do so?

How do you explain the law's commands when nobody is able to follow the law?

 

[synergy]

How do you explain the law's commands when nobody is able to follow the law?

One question at a time. Clearly answer mine first, as it came first, and I'll answer yours next.

 

[civic]

One question at a time. Clearly answer mine first, as it came first, and I'll answer yours next.

yes its a 2 way street not a one way monologue, its a dialogue.

 

[Dizerner]

The correct answer is in between.

We are sinful and unable without grace (apart from Me you can do nothing).

But neither does God force our free will with his grace (do you also wish to leave?).

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

One question at a time. Clearly answer mine first, as it came first, and I'll answer yours next.

Don't bother. The answer is the same. God telling people to do something does not prove that they have the ability to do it.

 

[Dizerner]

Dr. White and Dr. Flowers still arguing from ditches on both sides of the road both reject preceding grace.

Yet we see this preceding grace literally written on every page of the Bible.

The grace of God appeared to all men!

 

[synergy]

Don't bother. The answer is the same. God telling people to do something does not prove that they have the ability to do it.

The Bible explains our inability keep the law and what to do because of that.

Where does the Bible explain your idea of an inability to hear Christ and what to do because of that?