The Problem of evil

You should listen to this,.,

at 47:25 obo, he says "its not because you have not accepted Jesus that you go to hell".

Yet the sin of unbelief, is the unpardonable sin, and that is why you go to Hell., as that is dying a Christ Rejector, never born again.

If the fact that you have not believed in Jesus, that is the reason your SIN, is not forgiven.
 
The greater good and soul-building theodicies fail logically.

First they collapse all evil into a good thing since the evil only functions to bring greater goods.

And second they maintain creation as the locus of value that needs to be maintained, which is idolatry.
 
First they collapse all evil into a good thing since the evil only functions to bring greater goods.

In the life of a Believer, who is born again... then Yes... ."all things work together for good""

But in the case of a unbeliever....that's not how it works
For example, if an unbeliever who is never born again is murdered today.... they go to Hell like a bullet, and i promise you that is not their "greater good", in progress.
Believe it.
 
For example, if an unbeliever who is never born again is murdered today.... they go to Hell like a bullet, and i promise you that is not their "greater good", in progress.

Sure, but they will claim it still somehow fits into an overall greater good.

And what happens when you find an evil that you can't realistically connect to any greater good somewhere?

Then you lose faith, because you didn't build on the right foundation.
 
The greater good and soul-building theodicies fail logically.

First they collapse all evil into a good thing since the evil only functions to bring greater goods.

And second they maintain creation as the locus of value that needs to be maintained, which is idolatry.
"Has the potter not the right ..."

All exists for the GLORY of God ... to reveal and proclaim and exalt HIM.
"Are you willing to be damned for the glory of God?"

We’re sinners in need of a great Savior.
In Puritan New England, a young man who was being considered for ordination, would go through a long and very difficult examination. At the end, the final question was, are you willing to be damned for the glory of God? It was a question to measure the man’s commitment to Christ.
One young man thought about it for a moment and said, I don’t think so, but if God in his sovereignty should choose to damn you, it would be okay with me.
I would have voted to ordain him, because of his honesty. Now, that I think about it, Jesus would have too. He’s always looking for great sinners who need a great Savior.
- Steve Brown
;) some levity for a serious topic.
 
;) some levity for a serious topic.

I like the story of the man who boldly responded with, "I'm not only willing to be damned for the glory of God, I'm willing for this whole church to be damned!"

But the truth is, this is not something our sin nature will ever naturally like, only regeneration can produce such an attitude.

The irony about Calvinism is, in the end they find the Arminian God far more offensive.

So they do the very thing they tell us not to do—they become unwilling to accept an offensive God.
 
I like the story of the man who boldly responded with, "I'm not only willing to be damned for the glory of God, I'm willing for this whole church to be damned!"

But the truth is, this is not something our sin nature will ever naturally like, only regeneration can produce such an attitude.

The irony about Calvinism is, in the end they find the Arminian God far more offensive.

So they do the very thing they tell us not to do—they become unwilling to accept an offensive God.
I find the fight between Calvinism and Classical Arminianism to be hysterically funny. All those electrons spilled over what amounts to an argument over whether one repents and God saves, or whether God saves so you can repent. Both agree that both events happen together, they just disagree about a split second difference in the order. ;)

Now at the extremes, my Calvies lean into Hyper-Calvinism (which is a completely different animal) and the Free Willys lean into Semi-Pelagianism (also a completely different animal) … but the majority stay within the Biblical guardrails and are splitting hairs over an “Ordo Salutis” that only God can actually control.
 
Actual free will is kind of a big deal.

God decreeing some to hell makes evil his primary desire.

We are not splitting hairs here—there is a reason Calvinists hate the Arminian God.

Calvinism panders to our selfish tendencies, not God's glory.
 
God decreeing some to hell makes evil his primary desire.
All men sin, so God’s JUSTICE decrees all to hell.
God need do nothing but remain HOLY and JUST to condemn everyone without exception.


What in the above is contradicted by scripture?
[People almost always misrepresent the beliefs of others when they post what their opponents believe.]
 
Sure, but they will claim it still somehow fits into an overall greater good.

And what happens when you find an evil that you can't realistically connect to any greater good somewhere?

Then you lose faith, because you didn't build on the right foundation.

So, are you describing a broken faith? A broken understanding of Christianity?

What is that?

That is the false teaching that Christianity is...... "sin, .. confess... repeat"... your entire Christian Life.

This broken faith and total lack of understanding of having become born again as = a """New Creation in Christ"""..... is based on the heretical teaching that is based on using a verse in Romans 7, that says..."that which i hate i do"..

So, there are many denominations, and millions of Christians who have been deceived by ministers of the Devil who teach that one verse as "real Christianity"..
So, you find their deceived "sinning, confessing, and repeating", as this as their DISCIPLESHIP...

And had they Studied the Bible, instead of listening to some liar in their pulpit, or in their commentary, or, on an online Forum...

If they had actually READ Hebrews 13:9, and Studied Paul's epistles (13 of them) an not just that one verse, they would manifest THIS as their Discipleship.....

"Christ ALWAYS gives me the Victory" over the world, the flesh and the Devil.

"I can do ALL Things Through Christ, which strengthens me"...

But instead, they are faith broken, and discipleship RUINED by one verse, taken out of Context and taught to them, by a LIAR, who is probably not even born again......

This one... 2 Corinthians 11:13
 
But instead, they are faith broken, and discipleship RUINED by one verse, taken out of Context and taught to them, by a LIAR, who is probably not even born again......

Reminds me of the Word of Faith error I came out of.

Jesus died for you to always be successful, rich and healthy, and if you fall short you didn't exert faith hard enough.

Real grace means you don't have to be perfectly successful and struggle is okay.
 
Reminds me of the Word of Faith error I came out of.

Jesus died for you to always be successful, rich and healthy, and if you fall short you didn't exert faith hard enough.

Real grace means you don't have to be perfectly successful and struggle is okay.

In these "last days", the word of God, is hidden, regarding "justification by Faith".

Also..
There is a teaching, regarding "the (great) falling away"... and the "final apostasy", which is nonsense, so we'll avoid that one.

I'll show you what this final situation is..
Its a famine of Paul's Gospel of the GRACE of God.... and HIS Doctrine for the body of Christ, being taught correctly.

I'll show you what i mean... @dizerner

I can take my new students, who are all born again.....some for 30 yrs.......to these verses, that are the most basic "Pauline Theology"..

Romans 3:21-28

And they read them, and have NO IDEA what is going on there...nor does their Pastor, Bishop, Minister, or Pope.

= "famine" "apostasy"... = Paul's doctrine is MISSING in the "church"........and regarding online forums as well.
Hyper Calvinism is up and running however,,
So...
And that is why im here.
Its why im on every forum..
To teach Paul's Doctrine, and try to get real believers here...= ."not under the Law, but Under Grace".
 
Last edited:
Gods grace being resistible is evidence that man has a free will to choose God or reject Him. @dizerner @atpollard

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men

Since all men are not saved and Gods grace goes out to all men, Gods grace can be resisted.

Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

God the Holy Spirit can be resisted.

Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Here we see the Spirit of grace resisted, insulted, rejected and trampled under.

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.

hope this helps !!!
 
The free will of Adam.
If your Bible says that Adam did not sin, then you need another translation.
Could you be more specific with which verse refutes which part of my statement?

I was not addressing "free will" vs "irresistible draw", but merely your mischaracterization of God's primary desire based on the fact that men are justly condemned for sin.

All men sin, so God’s JUSTICE decrees all to hell.
God need do nothing but remain HOLY and JUST to condemn everyone without exception.
What in the above is contradicted by scripture?​
 
Last edited:
All men sin, so God’s JUSTICE decrees all to hell.
God need do nothing but remain HOLY and JUST to condemn everyone without exception.
What in the above is contradicted by scripture?​

It is only AFTER Adam's sin that all men deserve hell. I think your theology agrees with this... now the logical point of this is the free will of Adam allows God to have a primary desire that all men do not become sinners. So Adam's free will is a buttress against putting evil desires into the character of God, because now all humans becoming sinners is a secondary and not a primary desire of God.

If God had a primary desire to put humans into hell, or to make all sinners, he would skip the free will delegation of Adam altogether, and just make people sinners with no original trespass.

Thus we can know that God can genuinely desire that all men be saved and yet still allow them to be lost, because pure love does not logically preclude higher valuations from taking precedence over the desire for well-being; it does not compromise morals for well-being.
 
Thus we can know that God can genuinely desire that all men be saved and yet still allow them to be lost, because pure love does not logically preclude higher valuations from taking precedence over the desire for well-being; it does not compromise morals for well-being.

When Genesis says..>>"Let US make man in OUR image", its testifying that man is given free will, unless God does not have it.

God did not create Hand Puppet Robots.
He created "free moral beings" who have the right of choice.

It is not the case that a sinner does not understand that doing wrong is wrong.
Even a Christ Rejecting MOTHER and FATHER will teach a child..."dont lie, dont steal, as that is WRONG".

Other then a TRUE Psychopathic personality disorder....(seared conscience).....No one is so "reprobate" that they can't personally identify with "right vs wrong"... so, Dont Let John Calvinsim fool you., as that is why he wrote it.
To DECEIVE YOU>.
 
Last edited:
It is not the case that a sinner does not understand that doing wrong is wrong.
Even a Christ Rejecting MOTHER and FATHER will teach a child..."don't lie, don't steal, as that is WRONG".
Actually, no they will not.

They will tell the child not to lie, but then teach the child to lie by example.
They may tell a child not to steal, and then teach the child to steal by example.
Their WORDS may say such things are wrong, but their ACTIONS scream that the words are untrue.

"Do as I say, not as I do" may sound reasonable, but that is not how human beings are wired to learn ... "Actions speak louder than words" comes closer to ringing true.
 
Back
Top Bottom