When I supply evidence and you insist that it is wrong without supplying any evidence it is absurd.
The continued spread of the Arian Heresy (that Jesus is not God) in JW and Unitarian Churches.
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When I supply evidence and you insist that it is wrong without supplying any evidence it is absurd.
Because it doesn't mean Jesus prayed to a demon.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Proving Jesus is not God since he had to ask and did not already know. Get a clue.
Wrangler
Well-known member
I’ll put it on my reading list, now about 3 years long. Thanks!
Wrangler
Well-known member
Fred, you really need to educate yourself. Words are defined and most words have more than one sense.
You demonstrate Jesus prayed to a demon as you deny it! I agree not in one sense but in another sense.
Wrangler
Well-known member
I did provide evidence. God’s name is YHWH, not Jesus. Ex 3:15.
You try to back door your doctrine through one bizarre rationalization after another. You cannot even admit the trinity is not in the Bible - not the word and not the concept.
Assumption.
Even people today can ask a question even though they already know the answer. Teachers often do this.
A little more critical thinking skills with this would help you.
False.
I am going by your faulty association in post 126.
You need to educate yourself.
Jesus is YHWH (Romans 10:13; cf. Joel 2:32).
APAK
Active member
What a bunch of horse radish and pagan philosophy. The Son is ALWAYS ontologically inferior to his Father God. You are showing your religious colors here Fred. You are using vain philosophy to force some life and truth into your Trinity module you adore. It won't work no matter how hard you try.
With no supporting Bible verse to backup your presuppositions, it's actually you who is appealing to your "pagan philosophy" and exposing your "religious colors" to us.
Again, when Jesus said 'the Father is greater than I ' ... He not long after ascended to be one (equal) with the Father. This line of this verse is not about Jesus ' nature, but position compared to the Father at that time. And that position changed to equal.
When Jesus does things 'by the hand of the Father ', or such like statements.. it doesn't mean He is lesser. The Jews didn't see Jesus as lesser when He made these statements..but as a claim to be equal to the Father... and Jesus did not say they were wrong in their declaration.
Context context context
Sad you feel that way about Luke 2:51 and Ephesians 5:24.
From post 104:
Go ahead and provide an example that the Father receives prayer or worship that the Son does not receive in equality elsewhere.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Now you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Did Jesus know the demons name or did he pray the demon tell him?
APAK
Active member
Context indeed and you have shown zero surrounding that part verse or phrase you have quoted...and your line that its not about the Son versus his Father's nature in untrue. You are using faulty logic or a generalization technique to deliberately avoid or are overlooking the real context behind why the Pharisees consistently wanted Yahshua dead or stoned.
The Pharisees clearly saw Yahshua as unequal and less that the one God YHWH. Just making your statement does not make it true. The context with all the contacts and discussions between the Pharisees and Yahshua shows they believed he was unequal with the one true God.
The Pharisees were not going to stone the Son of God for being the SAME as God. He truly represented his God, his Father. They knew he was not God or a man-god. They would then be mentally-unbalanced for sure. It was that the Son of God represented as a 'god' or being AS God for his Father as his unique powerful prophet and emissary. And not only that, his Father's Spirit was actually dwelling within him as he spoke. This last point is the one that folks want to avoid and ignore, because at all costs somehow, and yet not successful, they want to actually make Yahshua a God-man. God was literally IN his Son. Is that so hard to believe in. And yet for especially Trinitarians they do not want anything to do with the Father possessing and influencing how his Son thought and spoke for their good reasons.
'Equality' can be a dodgy thing. Need to view things in the correct perspective. In this case and that part verse as in all verses like this one, the Son of God is his Father's proxy and representative, And the Pharisees hated him for this alone. They did not believe him and did not want to, especially because their thriving social-religious-economic kingdom would be turned upside down and doomed.
Today, at the right side or acting as the power of his Father, Yahshua still subordinate and unequal to his Father. Yahshua still as a human spirit as he did no earth. To us and his creation he is 'equal.' to his God. I hope you understand this simple concept.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Yea OK. Jesus is not God. If he were God, Scripture would not say he was the son of God.
The Son of God (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).
I was meaning that the Pharisees and Scribes were accusing Him of making Himself equal with the Father, which Jesus did not deny. Not that they believed Jesus was equal... but that this is what Jesus was claiming.
APAK
Active member
I would agree with your short response..thanks a bunch 360W
