. The Christian view that the Mosaic Covenant and Law have been replaced by another covenant.

[praise_yeshua]

"Iniquity" is synonymous with "lawlessness". God's law is how we know what iniquity is, so I did not misrepresent Mathew 7:23.

Nope. Not how you use the word. Synonyms are not IDENTICAL. They have similar meaning but they are not identical. It depends on the context. Establish the context to prove your claim.

What law is found here?

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Romans 10:5-8 should not be interpreted as contrasting what Moses said in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 with what he said in Deuteronomy 30:15-16, so "but" is an incorrect translation, rather it can and should be translated instead as "moreover". I'm not avoiding the solution, but rather Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim. How do you think that the mean of what Paul said in Romans 10:5-8 is relevant to the surrounding verses?

I identify a contrast because Paul used a contrasting word. You're trying to ignore this. Does "but" exist in the verse #2,#6 or not. Appealing to Deut 30 does establish exactly what Paul was teaching. He was referencing Deut 30 and contrasting it against the actions of Christ.

As I've told you this before, your position excludes the necessity of the death of Jesus Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

My position is that followers of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, so it bizarre to me that you would consider this to be close to blasphemous. I've said nothing to dismiss Matthew 5:44 or to make myself equal with Jesus. Could you please try interacting with what I've said instead of all this bluster?

Sure you have. I explained this earlier in my comments. You rejected what I said about Matthew 5:44 as applying ONLY to Christ and made it about yourself/anyone. This is a uniquely Jewish perspective. The Jews that actually heard Jesus did the same. Those same Jews cried for Christ to be murdered.

Why did you do this? I warned you because you should be warned. I will not do it again. Do as you please. Condemn yourself in your rhetoric. I will not try to intervene.

Can you tell me what value you find in Jesus Christ?

Is He your brother or your Master and Lord?

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

 

[Johann]

Indeed, I have read the sermon on the mouth, though Jesus was not explaining the limitations of the law, but rather everything that he taught in it was thoroughly rooted in the OT. In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so obedience to God has always been a matter of the heart and in Isaiah 29:13, God has always disdained it when His people honored Him with their lips while their hearts were far from Him.


In John 1:16-17, it says grace upon grace, so it is speaking about one example of grace being added upon another. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting God's law before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in John 17:3, the experience of knowing God and Jesus is eternal life, which again is salvation by grace through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way in obedience to His law and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is the content of His gift of salvation. Moreover, in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so God grace and truth came through Moses and also came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching us to obey God's law by word and by example. The only way for instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature to become obsolete is for God to first become obsolete.

Christian Worldview interviews Mike on the Reformation

Is the Reformation Still Important?

www.proclaimingthegospel.org

You need to listen.
J.

 

[Soyeong]

Ditto!


1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

"do not believe"

This is a present imperative with a negative particle which usually means to stop an act already in process.

The tendency of Christians is to accept strong personalities, logical arguments, or miraculous events as from God. Apparently the false teachers were claiming (1) to speak for God or (2) to have had a special revelation from God.

"every spirit" Spirit is used in the sense of a human person. See note at 1 John 4:6. This refers to a supposed message from God. Heresy comes from within the church (cf. 1 John 2:19).

The false teachers were claiming to speak for God. John asserts that there are two spiritual sources, God or Satan, behind human speech and action.

"but test the spirits" This is a Present active imperative.

This is both a spiritual gift (cf.
1 Cor. 12:10; 14:29) and a necessity for every believer, as are prayer, evangelism, and giving. This Greek word dokimazô has the connotation of "to test with a view toward approval." Believers must think the best of others unless the worst is proven (cf. 1 Cor. 13:4-7; 1 Thess. 5:20-21).


1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Stay strong in Christ Jesus-we are not here to seek the approval of men, but of our Lord Christ and our Abba-Father!

J.

According to Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speak against obeying the Mosaic Law.

Friend-what religion are you embracing? Judaism?
Do you know what Torah means? It excludes the NT.

Jesus did not come to start his own religion, but rather he came as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and he spent his ministry teaching how to practice Judaism by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah. People can choose whether or not to follow him, but can't follow him by refusing to follow what he taught. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with believing in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Titus 2:14), so Jews coming to faith were not ceasing to practice Judaism. This means that there was a period between the resurrection of Jesus and the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10 that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews, so Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah, and this is the religion that I embrace. The Torah does not exclude the NT, but rather everything taught in the NT is based on what was taught in the OT.

So why are you here imposing upon me that which is not written?

I'm not.

Abraham is declared righteous through faith.
1. (1-3) Abraham was not justified by works, but declared righteous through faith.
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

a. What then shall we say: In building on the thought begun in Romans 3:31 Paul asks the question, “Does the idea of justification through faith, apart from the works of the law, make what God did in the Old Testament irrelevant?”

b. What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found: In answering that question, Paul looks at Abraham, who was the most esteemed man among the Jewish people of his day – even greater than the “George Washington” of the American people.

c. For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about: If anyone could be justified by works, they would have something to boast about. Nevertheless such boasting is nothing before God (but not before God).

i. This boasting is nothing before God because even if works could justify a man, he would in some way still fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

ii. This boasting is nothing because before God, every pretense is stripped away and it is evident that no one can really be justified by works.

d. For what does the Scripture say? The Old Testament does not say Abraham was declared righteous because of his works. Instead, Genesis 15:6 says that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

i. Paul makes it clear: Abraham’s righteousness did not come from performing good works, but from belief in God. It was a righteousness obtained through faith.

ii. Generally, the Jewish teachers of Paul’s day believed that Abraham was justified by his works, by keeping the law. Ancient passages from the rabbis say: “We find that Abraham our father had performed the whole Law before it was given” and “Abraham was perfect in all his deeds with the Lord.” The rabbis argued that Abraham kept the law perfectly before it was given, keeping it by intuition or anticipation.

iii. The Apostle Paul does not say that Abraham was made righteous in all of his doings, but God accounted Abraham as righteous. Our justification is not God making us perfectly righteous, but counting us as perfectly righteous. After we are counted righteous, then God begins making us truly righteous, culminating at our resurrection.

iv. “Counted is logizomai. It was used in early secular documents; ‘put down to one’s account, let my revenues be placed on deposit at the storehouse; I now give orders generally with regard to all payments actually made or credited to the government.’ Thus, God put to Abraham’s account, placed on deposit for him, credited to him, righteousness… Abraham possessed righteousness in the same manner as a person would possess a sum of money placed in his account in a bank.” (Wuest)

v. Genesis 15:6 does not tell us how other men accounted Abraham. Instead, it tells us how God accounted him. “Moses [in Genesis] does not, indeed, tell us what men thought of him [Abraham], but how he was accounted before the tribunal of God.” (Calvin)

vi. Remember that righteousness is also more than the absence of evil and guilt. It is a positive good, meaning that God does not only declare us innocent, but righteous.

2. (4-5) A distinction made between grace and works.
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

a. Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace: The idea of grace stands opposite to the principle of works; grace has to do with receiving the freely given gift of God, works has to do with earning our merit before God.

i. Wuest on charis, the ancient Greek word translated grace: “Signified in classical authors a favor done out of the spontaneous generosity of the heart without any expectation or return. Of course, this favor was always done to one’s friend, never to an enemy… But when charis comes into the New Testament, it takes an infinite leap forward, for the favor God did at Calvary was for those who hated Him.”

b. Not counted as grace but as debt: A system of works seeks to put God in debt to us, making God owe us His favor because of our good behavior. In works-thinking, God owes us salvation or blessing because of our good works.

i. God isn’t praising laziness here. “The antithesis is not simply between the worker and the non-worker but between the worker and person who does not work but believes.” (Murray)

c. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness: Righteousness can never be accounted to the one who approaches God on the principle of works. Instead it is given to the one who believes on Him who justifies the ungodly.

d. Him who justifies the ungodly: This is who God justifies – the ungodly. We might expect God would only justify a godly man but because of what Jesus did on the cross, God can justify the ungodly.

i. It isn’t as if God is happy with our ungodly condition. We are not justified because of our ungodliness, but despite our ungodliness.

ii. Morris quoting Denney: “The paradoxical phrase, Him that justifieth the ungodly, does not suggest that justification is a fiction, whether legal or of any other sort, but that it is a miracle.”

e. Faith is accounted for righteousness: Just as Abraham, so our faith is accounted for righteousness. This was not some special arrangement for Abraham alone. We can enter into this relationship with God also.

i. By this we understand that there are not two ways of salvation – saved by works through law-keeping in the Old Testament and saved by grace through faith in the New Testament. Everyone who has ever been saved – Old or New Testament – is saved by grace through faith, through their relationship of a trusting love with God. Because of the New Covenant we have benefits of salvation that Old Testament saints did not have but we do not have a different manner of salvation.

Works can be done for reasons other than in order to earn our justification as a wage that do not give us something to boat about, such as faith in accordance with how Abraham was justified by his works in James 2:21-24, though he did not earn his justification as the result of his works (Romans 4:1-5). Indeed, Abraham kept God's law (Genesis 26:5). A gift can't be eared, so grace is incompatible with works insofar as they are done to earn a wage, however, works can be done for any number of reasons that are compatible with grace especially because God's law was never given as a way to earn a wage. This is why there are verses like Psalms 119:29-30, Exodus 33:13, Genesis 6:8-9, Romans 1:5, and Titus 2:11-14 that connect grace with works. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting God's law before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

It boggles my mind that so many people are so stuck that they can't conceive of a reason that we are required to obey the Mosaic Law other than in order to earn our righteousness as a wage, especially when that was never one of the reasons for why we should obey it. Do you agree or disagree that we can live in a way that express faith in God? God has given instructions for how to do that but people are dead set on making those instructions about earning our justification as a wage instead of expressing our faith, and it is by that faith that we are justified.

Christian Worldview interviews Mike on the Reformation

Is the Reformation Still Important?

www.proclaimingthegospel.org

You need to listen.
J.

Summarize it please.

 

[Johann]

According to Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speak against obeying the Mosaic Law.



Jesus did not come to start his own religion, but rather he came as the Jewish Messiah of Judaism in fulfillment of Jewish prophecy and he spent his ministry teaching how to practice Judaism by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah. People can choose whether or not to follow him, but can't follow him by refusing to follow what he taught. In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with believing in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Titus 2:14), so Jews coming to faith were not ceasing to practice Judaism. This means that there was a period between the resurrection of Jesus and the inclusion of Gentiles in Acts 10 that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews, so Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah, and this is the religion that I embrace. The Torah does not exclude the NT, but rather everything taught in the NT is based on what was taught in the OT.


I'm not.


Works can be done for reasons other than in order to earn our justification as a wage that do not give us something to boat about, such as faith in accordance with how Abraham was justified by his works in James 2:21-24, though he did not earn his justification as the result of his works (Romans 4:1-5). Indeed, Abraham kept God's law (Genesis 26:5). A gift can't be eared, so grace is incompatible with works insofar as they are done to earn a wage, however, works can be done for any number of reasons that are compatible with grace especially because God's law was never given as a way to earn a wage. This is why there are verses like Psalms 119:29-30, Exodus 33:13, Genesis 6:8-9, Romans 1:5, and Titus 2:11-14 that connect grace with works. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting God's law before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

It boggles my mind that so many people are so stuck that they can't conceive of a reason that we are required to obey the Mosaic Law other than in order to earn our righteousness as a wage, especially when that was never one of the reasons for why we should obey it. Do you agree or disagree that we can live in a way that express faith in God? God has given instructions for how to do that but people are dead set on making those instructions about earning our justification as a wage instead of expressing our faith, and it is by that faith that we are justified.


Summarize it please.

I see-you are referring to the Imperatives as recorded in Scriptures.

Hearing and Doing the Word
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Is this what you are referring to?

 

[praise_yeshua]

It boggles my mind that so many people are so stuck that they can't conceive of a reason that we are required to obey the Mosaic Law other than in order to earn our righteousness as a wage, especially when that was never one of the reasons for why we should obey it. Do you agree or disagree that we can live in a way that express faith in God? God has given instructions for how to do that but people are dead set on making those instructions about earning our justification as a wage instead of expressing our faith, and it is by that faith that we are justified.

Abraham didn't have the "law of Moses". It boggles the mind that some are so stuck that they can't conceive of a reason not to follow the law of Moses.

How about preferring "Grace and Truth"?

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

What Grace is there to be found in the law of Moses?

Have you ever cursed your father or mother? Do you wear fringes in your garments with a Blue ribbon?

Num 15:38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

Shouldn't you be dead for breaking the law? I know I should.

Exo 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I see-you are referring to the Imperatives as recorded in Scriptures.

Hearing and Doing the Word
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Is this what you are referring to?

Who has actually accomplished this? I'd like to see "raised hands" from those who have actually accomplished this.

 

[Johann]

Who has actually accomplished this? I'd like to see "raised hands" from those who have actually accomplished this.

Brother-I come from a ministerial ministry where we put Matthew 25 in action-a ministry the same as David Wilkerson and have met Nicky Cruz in person here in South Africa.

I believe we have a mandate-not to just sit here huddled together-to disagree, or not-but to put our faith in Yeshua HaMashiach in action in helping the poor and needy as instructed.

I believe @civic knows this-and I ask you-are we here, online, just talking our walk, or walking our talk?

What did Jesus do? Sitting in front of a computer or phone-ignoring the plight of the poor and needy?
Not being facetious with you.
Who knows-maybe this Forum can become a ministry in helping those who can't help themselves.
J.

 

[Johann]

Who has actually accomplished this? I'd like to see "raised hands" from those who have actually accomplished this.

I'm raising my hand-.

 

[Soyeong]

Sure I did.

If that is the case, then I must have missed it, please quote from where you did that.

Really? What about the 1st commandment? Does that apply to God? How about the Sabbath? Does God cease from all his labor on the Sabbath? What about honoring God's father and mother? How about coveting?

Indeed.

I can go on and on. Laws are made for subjects. Not THE Law Giver.

The point of God's laws is to teach us about who He is and God does not act in a way that is contrary to who He is.

No strawmen exist. You don't have to specifically say it. Your words require it.

Please explain why you think that my words require it.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Notice the tense? "Walking". At that time, they were blameless. It is not the indication of the absence of guilt. After all they died. Death establishes guilt.

If they had guilt, then they wouldn't be blameless, so being blameless in an indication of the absence of guilt. Do you deny that they obeyed God's law? Likewise, in Joshua 22:1-3, it refers to people who obeyed God's law. The same goes for Hebrews 5:9 and Revelation 22:14.

I didn't say you were. I said that what you said was Hyper Dispensationalism. Which it is. You may not know the subject but I do.

I admit that you know the subject of Hyper Dispensationalism more than I do, though it is still a position that I reject. The article that I looked up about what is is had nothing to do with what I said.

Needless to say, you're not Abraham. If God's law isn't too difficult to keep, then why have YOU not keep it?

Indeed, that was needless to say because I have not claimed to be Abraham. I do keep it.

Abraham didn't have the "law of Moses". It boggles the mind that some are so stuck that they can't conceive of a reason not to follow the law of Moses.

The promise made to Abraham is in regard to the Kingdom of God. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), and which he spread to Gentiles in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teaching his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to posses. So the promise was made to Abraham because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he spread the Gospel of the Kingdom by teaching his children and those of his household to do that, and because his children did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, and the works that they should be doing are in obedience to the Mosaic Law. So the way that the children are multiplied in accordance with the promise is not through having many physical descendants, but through turning people from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. Likewise, the Mosaic Law is how the children of Abraham knew how to be blessed by walking in God's way (Psalms 119:1-3), so the way to be a blessing to the nations is again by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. So yes, Abraham did have the Law of Moses.

How about preferring "Grace and Truth"?

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

What Grace is there to be found in the law of Moses?

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting the Mosaic Law before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Likewise, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, there are many verses like 1 Kings 2:1-3 that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, and knowing God and Jesus is eternal life (John 17:3). Moreover, in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. So grace and truth came through Moses and also came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example,

Have you ever cursed your father or mother? Do you wear fringes in your garments with a Blue ribbon?

Num 15:38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

Shouldn't you be dead for breaking the law? I know I should.

No. Yes. No.

It seems like you think that God should have just executed all of the Israelites after giving them to the Mosaic Law when in reality God knows how to give gifts to His children that are for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

Exo 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Someone cursing their parents amounts to wishing that they had never been born, so giving them to death penalty is doing their best to comply with that sentiment.

 

[Soyeong]

I see-you are referring to the Imperatives as recorded in Scriptures.

Hearing and Doing the Word
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

The Mosaic Law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of freedom (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of freedom that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Mosaic Law that wasn't already said in the Psalms.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Everything commanded in the Mosaic Law is in regard to how to love God and/or how to love our neighbor.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Is this what you are referring to?

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works is nevertheless still a central part of our salvation.

 

[Johann]

The Mosaic Law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of freedom (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of freedom that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Mosaic Law that wasn't already said in the Psalms.


Everything commanded in the Mosaic Law is in regard to how to love God and/or how to love our neighbor.


In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works is nevertheless still a central part of our salvation.

https://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201407/r1308729_17984331.pdf

OK-now I'm with you-open the link and see if you would agree.

I like your take on Ephesians 2:8-10.

"for good works"

Believers' lifestyles after they meet Christ are an evidence of their salvation (cf. James and 1 John).

They are saved by grace through faith unto works! They are saved to serve! Faith without works is dead, as are works without faith (cf. Matt. 7:21-23 and James 2:14-26). Salvation is a gate and a way/road. The goal of the Father's choice is that believers be "holy and blameless" (cf. Eph. 1:4).

Paul was often attacked for his radically free gospel because it seemed to encourage godless living. A gospel so seemingly unconnected to moral performance must lead to abuse. Paul's gospel was free in the grace of God, but it also demanded an appropriate response, not only in initial repentance, but in ongoing repentance. Godly living is the result, not lawlessness. Good works are not the mechanism of salvation, but the result. This paradox of a completely free salvation and a cost-everything response is difficult to communicate, but the two must be held in a tension-filled balance.

American individualism has distorted the gospel. Humans are not saved because God loves them so much individually, but because God loves fallen mankind, mankind made in His image. He saves and changes individuals to reach more individuals. The ultimate focus of love is primarily corporate (cf. John 3:16), but it is received individually (cf. John 1:12; Romans 10:9-13; 1 Cor. 15:1).

Agreed?
Now-having said that-do you have a ministry helping the poor and needy?

 

[Johann]

"perfect"

19:7-9 "law. . .testimony. . .precepts. . .commandment. . .fear. . .judgments" These are synonyms for God's written revelation.

"perfect. . .sure. . .right. . .pure. . .clean. . .true" These are characteristics of God's written revelation. The Bible is the only clear, self-revelation of God. This is a crucial faith assertion. It is normally called "inspiration"



19:7-11 "restoring. . .making. . .rejoicing. . .enlightening. . .enduring. . .righteous. . .more desirable. . .sweeter. . .warned. . .keeping" This is what the written revelation does for us. Oh, the value of Scripture for fallen humanity!

Notice the threefold parallels.



Titles
for YHWH's Revelation Description
of YHWH's Revelation Purpose of YHWH's Revelation
or Description of It
Ps. 19:7a the law of the Lord perfect/blameless restoring the soul
Ps. 19:7b the testimony of the Lord sure making wise the simple (cf. Ps. 119:98-100)
Ps. 19:8a the precepts of the Lord right rejoicing the heart (cf. Ps. 119:14)
Ps. 19:8b the commandment of the Lord pure enlightening the eyes (cf. Ps. 36:9; 119:130)
Ps. 19:9a the fear of the Lord clean enduring forever
Ps. 19:9b the judgments of the Lord true righteous altogether (cf. Deut. 32:4; Ps. 119:138)
Ps. 19:10a they more desirable gold, fine gold (cf. Ps. 119:72, 127)
Ps. 19:10b they sweeter honey, honey comb (cf. Ps. 119:103)
Ps. 19:11a Your servant warned
Ps. 19:11b keeping them great reward

What powerful repetition and parallelism! God's revelation is redemptive, informative, prescriptive, and a real blessing! Oh, thank God for revelation!

 

[Soyeong]

https://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201407/r1308729_17984331.pdf

OK-now I'm with you-open the link and see if you would agree.

There is some variance in regard to whether a complex command counts as one command in should be split into individual commands or whether similar commands should be counted as the same command or as their own commands, but I agree that there are roughly 1,050 commands in the NT that are in accordance with the 613 commands of the OT.

I like your take on Ephesians 2:8-10.

"for good works"

Believers' lifestyles after they meet Christ are an evidence of their salvation (cf. James and 1 John).

They are saved by grace through faith unto works! They are saved to serve! Faith without works is dead, as are works without faith (cf. Matt. 7:21-23 and James 2:14-26). Salvation is a gate and a way/road. The goal of the Father's choice is that believers be "holy and blameless" (cf. Eph. 1:4).

Paul was often attacked for his radically free gospel because it seemed to encourage godless living. A gospel so seemingly unconnected to moral performance must lead to abuse. Paul's gospel was free in the grace of God, but it also demanded an appropriate response, not only in initial repentance, but in ongoing repentance. Godly living is the result, not lawlessness. Good works are not the mechanism of salvation, but the result. This paradox of a completely free salvation and a cost-everything response is difficult to communicate, but the two must be held in a tension-filled balance.

American individualism has distorted the gospel. Humans are not saved because God loves them so much individually, but because God loves fallen mankind, mankind made in His image. He saves and changes individuals to reach more individuals. The ultimate focus of love is primarily corporate (cf. John 3:16), but it is received individually (cf. John 1:12; Romans 10:9-13; 1 Cor. 15:1).

Agreed?
Now-having said that-do you have a ministry helping the poor and needy?

According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is not earned as the result of having first done those works and doing those works is not the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works. The reason why there is so much confusion about salvation is that people don't see the experience of getting to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law as being the content of God's gift of salvation and are stuck on seeing obeying it as being the result of trying to earn our salvation as a wage. I do assist in helping the poor and needy.

 

[Johann]

There is some variance in regard to whether a complex command counts as one command in should be split into individual commands or whether similar commands should be counted as the same command or as their own commands, but I agree that there are roughly 1,050 commands in the NT that are in accordance with the 613 commands of the OT.



According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is not earned as the result of having first done those works and doing those works is not the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works. The reason why there is so much confusion about salvation is that people don't see the experience of getting to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law as being the content of God's gift of salvation and are stuck on seeing obeying it as being the result of trying to earn our salvation as a wage. I do assist in helping the poor and needy.

"zealous of good deeds" The goal of Christianity is not only heaven when believers die but Christlikeness now (cf. Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4 2:10). God's people are characterized by an eager desire for good works (cf. James and 1 John).
4) "Zealous of good works." (zeloten kalon ergon) "Zealous (or on fire) of good deeds and conduct." Our Lord desires that this "people of his own possession," the church, be zealous to go into all the world, witnessing for him – Act_1:8; Joh_20:21; Jas_1:22. The "kings business requireth haste," 1Sa_21:8.

And they who are redeemed and purified by Christ, through the power of his grace upon them, become a people "zealous of good works"; not in order to their justification and salvation, but in obedience to the will of God, and to testify their subjection and gratitude to him, and for his honour and glory, and for the credit of religion, and the good of men, These not only perform them, but perform them from principles of truth and love, and with a zeal for the glory of God, and the honour of his Gospel; and with an holy emulation of one another, striving to go before, and excel each other in the performance of them.

I think we are on the same page.

Shalom Achi-to you and family.

Busy listening to this-https://soundcloud.com/janetmefferdtoday

Living Faith or Dead Faith

Mike contrasts God-given living faith that produces evidence of a changed life with dead, deceptive faith that is useless.

www.proclaimingthegospel.org

 

[Soyeong]

Nope. Not how you use the word. Synonyms are not IDENTICAL. They have similar meaning but they are not identical. It depends on the context. Establish the context to prove your claim.

What law is found here?

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

There are a number of translations that translate Matthew 7:23 as telling those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him, so I was not misrepresenting the verse. Iniquity is in transgression of the Mosaic Law. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus contrasted that with saying that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of God, and the Father has straightforwardly made His will known through what He has commanded. Likewise, in 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey His commands are liars, and in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, so there are other verses that support that God's law is His instructions for how to know Jesus.

In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it, which is why there is no law against them.

I identify a contrast because Paul used a contrasting word. You're trying to ignore this. Does "but" exist in the verse #2,#6 or not. Appealing to Deut 30 does establish exactly what Paul was teaching. He was referencing Deut 30 and contrasting it against the actions of Christ.

As I've told you this before, your position excludes the necessity of the death of Jesus Christ.

While the word that Paul used can mean "but", it can also mean "moreover", so he did not necessarily use a contrasting word and we need to use the context of how it is used to determine the correct word choice. It doesn't make sense to interpret Paul was quoting what Moses said in order to argue against what Moses said in the next verse, especially when he considered what Moses said to be Scripture. Strong's 235 is not the same as 1161. The same God who gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus to spent his ministry teaching us how to obey it, so there is no disagreement. I believe in the necessity of the death of Jesus Christ in accordance with Titus 2:14.

Sure you have. I explained this earlier in my comments. You rejected what I said about Matthew 5:44 as applying ONLY to Christ and made it about yourself/anyone. This is a uniquely Jewish perspective. The Jews that actually heard Jesus did the same. Those same Jews cried for Christ to be murdered.

Why did you do this? I warned you because you should be warned. I will not do it again. Do as you please. Condemn yourself in your rhetoric. I will not try to intervene.

Can you tell me what value you find in Jesus Christ?

Is He your brother or your Master and Lord?

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

The fact that only Jesus loved his enemies without fail is not the same as saying that none but Jesus has ever loved their enemies and saying that I have loved my eneimies does not equate myself with Jesus. Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Brother-I come from a ministerial ministry where we put Matthew 25 in action-a ministry the same as David Wilkerson and have met Nicky Cruz in person here in South Africa.

I believe we have a mandate-not to just sit here huddled together-to disagree, or not-but to put our faith in Yeshua HaMashiach in action in helping the poor and needy as instructed.

I believe @civic knows this-and I ask you-are we here, online, just talking our walk, or walking our talk?

What did Jesus do? Sitting in front of a computer or phone-ignoring the plight of the poor and needy?
Not being facetious with you.
Who knows-maybe this Forum can become a ministry in helping those who can't help themselves.
J.

I applaud your efforts. Thank you for your service to Jesus Christ. I sincerely mean that.

Please don't take this the wrong way.....

However, there is no pleasure to be found in recognition of our service apart from the very voice of God confirming our value to Him. There will come a day when He will speak and all men with stand silent as He alone establishes those who have actually pleased Him. Any person can do good things for all the wrong reasons. Which is what Jesus Christ came to reveal. He came to a group of religiously pious peoples that claimed to please the Father. Yet, they sought to murder our Lord. In fact, Peter used those very words to describe these people. Murders. Murders in their hearts for hating the lovely Son of God. I don't see these things in you. I'm not claiming they are but motives are everything when it comes to God.

We can do so very little to please God. So very little. The littlest of faith pleases God. Too many seek acknowledgement in their service when God desires that we just love Him. Love Him enough to put Him first. Love Him enough to train our own children. Abraham didn't have a single person to praise his works. Not one.

I still insist that when it comes to actually "loving our neighbor as ourselves"..... Only Christ has accomplished this. He did what only He could do. He proved it by actually having the power to actually love us to Himself.

Sure. We can claim to love in such a manner but our love doesn't have any power to TRANSFORM.... in and of itself. Remember James? In same manner, what good is it to say you love someone and yet not have the power to actually help them with what they actually need? God alone saves. We might point someone to Him but it is God, who in love, actually saves mankind. We are powerless to do such.

There are plenty that feed the power and tell others they love them but there are few that actually bow the knee completely to the power of Christ. We are always look for it ourselves. I grew tired of that a long time ago. I started actually changing my doctrine to reflect these truths in what I believe. That is the most I can do.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm raising my hand-.

I saw it.

I answered. I wait for recognition from the only One that matters.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If that is the case, then I must have missed it, please quote from where you did that.
Indeed.
The point of God's laws is to teach us about who He is and God does not act in a way that is contrary to who He is.
Please explain why you think that my words require it.

I have no desire to continually repeat myself.

If they had guilt, then they wouldn't be blameless, so being blameless in an indication of the absence of guilt. Do you deny that they obeyed God's law? Likewise, in Joshua 22:1-3, it refers to people who obeyed God's law. The same goes for Hebrews 5:9 and Revelation 22:14.

If they didn't haven't been guilt, they wouldn't have died. Why are you ignoring this?

I admit that you know the subject of Hyper Dispensationalism more than I do, though it is still a position that I reject. The article that I looked up about what is is had nothing to do with what I said.

Googling an article leaves you less than capable of a valid response. You admit I know more yet insist that what you said doesn't match what I referenced. How does that actually work? Such is double mindedness.

Indeed, that was needless to say because I have not claimed to be Abraham. I do keep it.

I'm glad you recognize the superiority of Abraham. I hope you realize that Abraham continually sinned. Abraham did good things but it was only faith that pleased God.

I broke apart your comments for a reason. If you insist on combining them again and creating very large responses, I will cease to interact with you. I don't "bloviate".