. The Christian view that the Mosaic Covenant and Law have been replaced by another covenant.

Indeed, I have read the sermon on the mouth, though Jesus was not explaining the limitations of the law, but rather everything that he taught in it was thoroughly rooted in the OT.

Part of your statement above is correct. What Jesus spoke on the mount was a condemnation of those who heard His words...

When they heard His words.... And thought of themselves. Which is what you're doing yourself. They pretend they had done exactly what Jesus taught. They did not see themselves guilty of their sins in not keeping the law they claim to keep.

You, like them, have no means of glory in pretending you've keep God's law. The law was imperfect in that it could never establish righteousness. Yet, your position is solely rooted in the false claim that the "law" COULD establish righteousness.

The most important thing you fail to recognize in the words of Christ is the fact that only the one speaking was actually fulfilling the law. May attention to what you read....

1. Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

**** So when have YOU made peace? Humm? I'll wait for your answer. You can not do what our Lord ALONE has done. ****

2. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

**** You fail to realize that only Christ has so loved His enemies, those who cursed Him, those that hated Him, to the point of actually forgiving them and granting them Eternal life. Tell me. What power do you have to do such a things? ****

I'll wait for you to glory in your own accomplishments.
 
You have to stipulate WHAT law Christians must adhere to-
"the law of the Spirit of life. . . the law of sin and of death" This could refer to
1. the contrast between the law of sin (cf. Rom. 7:10,23,25) and the new law of God (cf. Rom. 7:6,22,25)
2. "the law of love" (cf. James 1:25; 2:8,12) versus "The Mosaic Law" (cf. Rom. 7:6-12)
3. the old age versus the new age
4. old covenant versus the new covenant (cf. Jer. 31:31-34; the NT book of Hebrews)
This contrasting style is sustained.
1. the law of the Spirit of life in Christ vs. the law of sin and death, Rom. 8:2
2. according to the flesh vs. according to the Spirit, Rom. 8:4 and 5
3. things of the-

e flesh vs. things of the Spirit, Rom. 8:5
4. mind set on the things of the flesh vs. mind set on the things of the Spirit, Rom. 8:5
5. mind set on the flesh, vs. mind set on the Spirit, Rom. 8:6
6. in the flesh vs. in the Spirit, Rom. 8:9
7. body is dead vs. spirit is alive, Rom. 8:10
8. you must die vs. you will live, Rom. 8:13
9. not the spirit of slavery vs. the spirit of adoption, Rom. 8:15
The NASB Study Bible (p. 1645) has an interesting list on Paul's usages of the term "law" in Romans.
1. a controlling power, Rom. 8:2
2. God's law, Rom. 2:17-20; 9:31; 10:3-5
3. the Pentateuch, Rom. 3:21b
4. the whole OT, Rom. 3:19
5. a principle, Rom. 3:27
I agree it is important to correctly discern which law any verse is speaking about. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers of how to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and a Christian is someone who seeks by faith to follow what Christ taught by word and by example, so that is straightforwardly the law that Christians must adhere to. The Law of Moses was given by God (Deuteronomy 5:31-33) is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23, so verses like Romans 7:22, 7:25, and 8:4 that speak about the Law of God are referring to the Law of Moses. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit by contrasting them both with the law of sin and death, which makes sense because the Law of Moses was given by God and the Spirit is God. In other words, God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses.

Throughout Romans 7, Paul was contrasting the law of God with the law of sin. In Romans 7:7, the Law of God is not sinful, but is how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, however, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5), so it is sinful and causes sin to increase. In Romans 7:22, Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God, so if a verse would be absurd if it referred to something that Paul delighted in doing, such as delighting in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, then it should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God. So verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from doing the good of obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin, such Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Galatians 2:19, Galatians 5:16-18.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and the law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11. Moreover, in Galatians 3:10-12, Paul connected a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 saying that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, that the one who obeys the Law of Moses will live by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Law of Moses. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of Moses, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it.

The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms. Furthermore, in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarizes the Law of Moses as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so it is the law of love.

In Jeremiah 31:33, it says that the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts and "Torah" refers specifically to the Law of Moses.

The works of the flesh are those things that are against the Law of Moses. For example, Romans 8:4-7 contrasts those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of Moses. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of Moses while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of Moses, and in Psalms 119:142, the Law of Moses is truth.

Again-
"a change of law also" The purpose of the Mosaic law was never to produce righteousness, but to show the continuing results of the fall and mankind's inability to please God (cf. Gal. 3:24-25). This is a major truth in trying to figure out God's purpose for the Mosaic Law.

As to Deut 30-who are the recipients?
30:11-14 YHWH's will for Israel was not impossible (cf. Deut. 28:29).

This verse seems to depreciate the reformers doctrine of "total depravity." There are several places in the OT where human resistence to sin is possible (e.g., Gen. 4:7).

The church picks up on Genesis 3 as the origin of sin in mankind, while many rabbis pick up on Genesis 6 as the source of the conflict. As Christianity asserts the fallenness of all creation, including humanity, Judaism asserts the basic goodness of humanity. For them the evil is in the choice, not the basic nature.

However, it seems to me that moral accountability is based on the real possibility of comprehending God's will and the ability to act on it. Without the possibility of appropriate action, divine accountability is inappropriate! Can I be held responsible for that which I cannot do?

30:12 "'Who will go up to heaven'" Paul uses this in Rom. 10:6-9. It possibly reflects the Sumerian legend of Etana, but probably relates to the Hebrew view of God's sovereignty.

There are several verbs used in an imperatival sense in this verse (according to OT Parsing Guide):

1. "to get it" - BDB 542, KB 534, Qal imperfect, but jussive in meaning

2. "make us hear" - BDB 1033, KB 1570, Hiphil imperfect, but jussive in meaning

3. "we may observe it" - BDB 793, KB 889, Qal imperfect, but cohortative in meaning



30:13 "beyond the sea" Some see this as related to the Babylonian flood account called the Gilgamesh Epic, but it probably relates to the Jewish fears of sailing or a metaphor of the ends of the earth.

30:14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart" This refers to YHWH's revealed covenant. The ancients read Scripture aloud! They had to appropriately respond inwardly to what they had heard (i.e., read themselves or read aloud).

"that you may observe it" Man must make the decision. It is in his ability to do so. God initiates but mankind must respond and continue to respond in repentance, faith, and obedience!
While I agree that the goal of the Mosaic Law was never to product righteousness, nowhere does the Bible state that its goal is to show man's inability to please God, but rather as you noted in Deuteronomy 30:14, we have the ability to observe it. If we were not created with the ability to obey it, then would could rightly place the blame for not obeying it squarely on God

"that I came to abolish the Law"

The context of Matt. 5:17-20 is a statement affirming the inspiration and eternality of the Old Covenant . Jesus Himself was the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is a person, not a set of required rules.

The two covenants are radically different, not in purpose but in the means of accomplishing that purpose. The thrust here is not on the inability of the Old Covenant to make man right with God as in Galatians 3, but rather on the rabbis'incomplete and improper interpretation of the biblical texts by means of their Socratic or dialectical method of interpretation.

Jesus, in effect, expanded the scope of the Law from overt actions to mental thoughts. This takes the difficulty of true righteousness through the Old Covenant to a level of utter impossibility (cf. Gal. 3:10,21-22).

This impossibility will be met by Christ Himself and given back to the repentant/believing faith community through imputed righteousness or justification by faith (cf. Rom. 4:6; 10:4). Mankind's religious life is a result of a relationship with God, not a means to that relationship.

"the Law or the Prophets" This was an idiom referring to two of the three divisions of the Hebrew Canon: Law, Prophets and Writings . It was a way of designating the entire Old Testament. It also showed that Jesus' understanding of Scripture was closer to the theology of the Pharisees than of the Sadducees, who only accepted the Torah, or Law (Genesis – Deuteronomy) as authoritative.

NASB, NKJV, NRSV, Peshitta   "but to fulfill"
TEV   "but to make their teachings come true"
NJB, REB   "to complete"

This was a common term (pleroō) which was used in several senses. In this context it meant to consummate or to come to a designated completion (cf. Rom. 10:4). The Mosaic Covenant has been fulfilled and surpassed by the New Covenant. This is the main truth of the book of Hebrews and Galatians 3!

You cannot argue around this.
Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law and then immediately proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of Matthew 5 by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he did not come to abolish it, so you should not interpret fulfilling it as meaning essentially the same thing as abolishing it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, which again refers to correctly obeying it, not to ending it. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be surpassed by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant does everything that the Mosaic Covenant does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). So the Mosaic Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10), plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). Moreover, I don't see how you can deny that the New Covenant involves following a set of rules without denying Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10.

The Torah is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so he is the living embodiment of the Torah expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to it, and Galatians should not be interpreted as speaking against following Christ. In other words, if God were to take all of the aspects of His nature that the Torah was given to teach us how to express and personify them, then that would be the person of the Son (Hebrews 1:3).

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Torah, so Jesus did not expand its scope, but rather he was fulfilling the Torah by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. For example, if we correctly understand what is being commanded against the 7th and 10th Commandments against adultery and coveting in our hearts, then we won't look at a woman with lust in our hearts, so that was not a change in disagreement with what the Father had instructed. Jesus expressed his righteousness by living in obedience to God's law, so that is the way that we also get to live by faith when we are imputed with his righteousness. Mankind's religion life is neither something that we need to do first before we can have a relationship with God nor something that we do as the result of of a relationship with Him, but rather it is what having a relationship with Him looks like. In other words, the Mosaic Covenant is often described a marriage relationship between God and Israel, so God taught how to have a relationship with Him through the Mosaic Law.
 
An utterly preposterous claim.
Please explain why you consider that to be utterly preposterous claim. To me it seems straightforward that there is no sense in speaking about God having an eternal nature without there being an eternal way to express that nature. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:160), therefore all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), and if the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were ever to change or end, then God's righteousness would not be eternal. To say that God is righteous means that He practices righteousness, so there can't be eternal righteousness without an eternal way to practice righteousness.

Provide the Scripture that establishes your claim.
The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), and God's law could not be accurately described as such if it were not God's eternal instructions for how to practice those eternal aspects of His nature. God's way is the way that He practices aspects of His nature, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19, 2 Samuel 22:21-37) and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others.

Furthermore, the way to know God is through practicing His nature in obedience to His law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refused to know Him because in Jeremiah 9:13 they had forsaken the Torah while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in practicing those and other aspects of God's nature in obedience to His law is the way to know Him and the way to know the Son, who is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey his commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which again is eternal life (John 17:3), which is why Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).

Read the Scriptures....

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Indeed, God found fault with the Mosaic Covenant in Hebrews 8:7-10, however, it does not say that he found fault with His law, but that He found fault with the people for not continuing in their covenant. So the solution to the problem was not to do away with the Mosaic Law, but to do away with what was hindering His people from obeying it, which is why the New Covenant involves God sending the Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to obey the law and meet its righteous requirement (Romans 8:3-4), God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to His law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). We should not think that it will go differently for us if we follow Israel's example of disobedience to God's law instead of learning from their example of disobedience what we should avoid doing (1 Corinthians 10:1-13).
 
I agree it is important to correctly discern which law any verse is speaking about. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers of how to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and a Christian is someone who seeks by faith to follow what Christ taught by word and by example, so that is straightforwardly the law that Christians must adhere to. The Law of Moses was given by God (Deuteronomy 5:31-33) is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23, so verses like Romans 7:22, 7:25, and 8:4 that speak about the Law of God are referring to the Law of Moses. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit by contrasting them both with the law of sin and death, which makes sense because the Law of Moses was given by God and the Spirit is God. In other words, God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses.

Throughout Romans 7, Paul was contrasting the law of God with the law of sin. In Romans 7:7, the Law of God is not sinful, but is how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, however, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5), so it is sinful and causes sin to increase. In Romans 7:22, Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God, so if a verse would be absurd if it referred to something that Paul delighted in doing, such as delighting in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, then it should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God. So verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from doing the good of obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin, such Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Galatians 2:19, Galatians 5:16-18.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and the law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11. Moreover, in Galatians 3:10-12, Paul connected a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 saying that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, that the one who obeys the Law of Moses will live by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Law of Moses. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of Moses, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it.

The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms. Furthermore, in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarizes the Law of Moses as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so it is the law of love.

In Jeremiah 31:33, it says that the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts and "Torah" refers specifically to the Law of Moses.

The works of the flesh are those things that are against the Law of Moses. For example, Romans 8:4-7 contrasts those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of Moses. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of Moses while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of Moses, and in Psalms 119:142, the Law of Moses is truth.


While I agree that the goal of the Mosaic Law was never to product righteousness, nowhere does the Bible state that its goal is to show man's inability to please God, but rather as you noted in Deuteronomy 30:14, we have the ability to observe it. If we were not created with the ability to obey it, then would could rightly place the blame for not obeying it squarely on God


Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law and then immediately proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of Matthew 5 by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he did not come to abolish it, so you should not interpret fulfilling it as meaning essentially the same thing as abolishing it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, which again refers to correctly obeying it, not to ending it. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be surpassed by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant does everything that the Mosaic Covenant does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). So the Mosaic Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10), plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). Moreover, I don't see how you can deny that the New Covenant involves following a set of rules without denying Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10.

The Torah is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so he is the living embodiment of the Torah expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to it, and Galatians should not be interpreted as speaking against following Christ. In other words, if God were to take all of the aspects of His nature that the Torah was given to teach us how to express and personify them, then that would be the person of the Son (Hebrews 1:3).

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Torah, so Jesus did not expand its scope, but rather he was fulfilling the Torah by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. For example, if we correctly understand what is being commanded against the 7th and 10th Commandments against adultery and coveting in our hearts, then we won't look at a woman with lust in our hearts, so that was not a change in disagreement with what the Father had instructed. Jesus expressed his righteousness by living in obedience to God's law, so that is the way that we also get to live by faith when we are imputed with his righteousness. Mankind's religion life is neither something that we need to do first before we can have a relationship with God nor something that we do as the result of of a relationship with Him, but rather it is what having a relationship with Him looks like. In other words, the Mosaic Covenant is often described a marriage relationship between God and Israel, so God taught how to have a relationship with Him through the Mosaic Law.


Rom 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God sent to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; to himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

Rom 3:28 We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Rom 1:17 For in it is revealed God's righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, "But the righteous shall live by faith."


Peace with God Through Faith
Rom 5:1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;

Be careful in not preaching "another Christ"
 
Part of your statement above is correct. What Jesus spoke on the mount was a condemnation of those who heard His words...

When they heard His words.... And thought of themselves. Which is what you're doing yourself. They pretend they had done exactly what Jesus taught. They did not see themselves guilty of their sins in not keeping the law they claim to keep.

You, like them, have no means of glory in pretending you've keep God's law. The law was imperfect in that it could never establish righteousness. Yet, your position is solely rooted in the false claim that the "law" COULD establish righteousness.
My position has nothing to do with the claim that the law could establish our righteousness and have never made that claim. The law was never given as a way of establishing righteousness as wage even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to it (Romans 4:1-5), so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of why we should obey the law, which is why there are many verses that speak against that.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the law. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but is was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the law as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-16, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to keep, and in Romans 10:5-8, Paul referenced that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, so believing that we can keep the law is a matter of putting our faith in God's word.

The most important thing you fail to recognize in the words of Christ is the fact that only the one speaking was actually fulfilling the law. May attention to what you read....

1. Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

**** So when have YOU made peace? Humm? I'll wait for your answer. You can not do what our Lord ALONE has done. ****
According to Galatians 5:14, everyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it does not refer to something that only Jesus could do. It would make no sense to interpret Matthew 5:9 as Jesus referring to a group of people of which no one but him is a member. Ephesians 2:15 says that Jesus made peace, not that it is only possible for him to make peace. Anyone can make peace and I'd be surprised if you have never done that.

2. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

**** You fail to realize that only Christ has so loved His enemies, those who cursed Him, those that hated Him, to the point of actually forgiving them and granting them Eternal life. Tell me. What power do you have to do such a things? ****

I'll wait for you to glory in your own accomplishments.
Loving our enemies is in accordance with verses like Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, Proverbs 25:21-22 and these verses do not treat it as though it is impossible for us to do. Again, the word of faith that we proclaim is that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey. Do you believe that nothing is impossible with God...except obeying Him? God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by obediently relying on what He has instructed, while it is contradictory to think that we are relying on ourselves by relying on what God has instructed. Our good works in obedience to God's law do not glorify ourselves, but rather they testify about God's goodness, which is why they give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16).
 
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Rom 3:24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God sent to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; to himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

Rom 3:28 We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Rom 1:17 For in it is revealed God's righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, "But the righteous shall live by faith."


Peace with God Through Faith
Rom 5:1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;

Be careful in not preaching "another Christ"
I completely agree with those verses and have not said anything otherwise, so please interact with what I said instead of burning a straw man.
 
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I completely agree with those verses and have not said anything otherwise, so please interact with what I said instead of burning a straw man.
So why do you insist I must be obedient to the Mosaic law?
It goes diametrically opposed to these Scripture references-yes?!
 
Please explain why you consider that to be utterly preposterous claim. To me it seems straightforward that there is no sense in speaking about God having an eternal nature without there being an eternal way to express that nature. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:160), therefore all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), and if the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were ever to change or end, then God's righteousness would not be eternal. To say that God is righteous means that He practices righteousness, so there can't be eternal righteousness without an eternal way to practice righteousness.

Don't pretend I didn't explain why it is a preposterous claim.

There is a very simple reply to what you've said above. I told a friend this many years ago. He later told me that he realized how wrong he was about the same claims you're making.

1. Does God live by these very same laws you claim are Eternal and represented by the law of Moses?

God has privileges that His subjects do not obtain.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), and God's law could not be accurately described as such if it were not God's eternal instructions for how to practice those eternal aspects of His nature. God's way is the way that He practices aspects of His nature, such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19, 2 Samuel 22:21-37) and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others.

Furthermore, the way to know God is through practicing His nature in obedience to His law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refused to know Him because in Jeremiah 9:13 they had forsaken the Torah while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in practicing those and other aspects of God's nature in obedience to His law is the way to know Him and the way to know the Son, who is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey his commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which again is eternal life (John 17:3), which is why Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28)..

You're bloviating. You several problems here. The largest problem is the fact you've done nothing your entire life but break said laws. You are a law breaker. Not the LAW GIVER.

You will NEVER become the LAW GIVER. That is what your argument requires. That you ultimately become equal to God through your own works of righteousness.

Indeed, God found fault with the Mosaic Covenant in Hebrews 8:7-10, however, it does not say that he found fault with His law, but that He found fault with the people for not continuing in their covenant.

So you're actually BETTER than those before you? Those God "found fault" with? You need to explain. Don't "talk around" the issue like you've been doing. Make this personal. Tell me how YOU are better than those before you.

So the solution to the problem was not to do away with the Mosaic Law, but to do away with what was hindering His people from obeying it, which is why the New Covenant involves God sending the Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to obey the law and meet its righteous requirement (Romans 8:3-4), God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to His law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). We should not think that it will go differently for us if we follow Israel's example of disobedience to God's law instead of learning from their example of disobedience what we should avoid doing (1 Corinthians 10:1-13).

Hyper Dispensational nonsense. Abraham pleased God through faith. Faith has always pleased God. Abraham pleased God before the law ever existed.

Jeremiah is written to a lawless people. Remember how they killed all the prophets sent to them? That is YOUR ancestry. YOUR HISTORY. MY HISTORY. Rebels that had no law.

You don't keep the law you claim to keep now. You are still a law breaker. You need to admit this. Don't talk around it. Admit that you're a law breaker. I know I am.
 
Paul answered this question....

Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.


Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
Act 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Act 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
Act 15:33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.
Act 15:34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.
Act 15:35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

Thank you brother.
 
My position has nothing to do with the claim that the law could establish our righteousness and have never made that claim. The law was never given as a way of establishing righteousness as wage even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to it (Romans 4:1-5), so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of why we should obey the law, which is why there are many verses that speak against that.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the law.

Here is exactly what Matt 7:23 says.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Why have you misrepresented Matt 7:23?

You're full of "double speak".

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but is was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the law as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as though righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-16, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to keep, and in Romans 10:5-8, Paul referenced that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, so believing that we can keep the law is a matter of putting our faith in God's word.

Seriously? Romans 10 does not relate such nonsense. It contains a CONTRAST. Do you see the "BUT" in verse #6

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

and the solution you're avoiding in verse 8 connected to verse #9

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

According to Galatians 5:14, everyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it does not refer to something that only Jesus could do. It would make no sense to interpret Matthew 5:9 as Jesus referring to a group of people of which no one but him is a member. Ephesians 2:15 says that Jesus made peace, not that it is only possible for him to make peace. Anyone can make peace and I'd be surprised if you have never done that.

Loving our enemies is in accordance with verses like Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, Proverbs 25:21-22 and these verses do not treat it as though it is impossible for us to do. Again, the word of faith that we proclaim is that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey. Do you believe that nothing is impossible with God...except obeying Him? God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by obediently relying on what He has instructed, while it is contradictory to think that we are relying on ourselves by relying on what God has instructed. Our good works in obedience to God's law do not glorify ourselves, but rather they testify about God's goodness, which is why they give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16).

I know you brother. I don't. I can't say that I remember ever interacting with your before this forum. I warn you. You're getting very close to blaspheme here and I don't use that word lightly.

I stated the fact that only Christ has so loved His enemies without fail as referenced in Matthew 5:44. Yet, you DISMISS this to make yourself equal with Jesus Christ. Such breeds false doctrine and damnable heresy.

I suppose Jesus Christ is just your brother? Right?
 
Seriously? Romans 10 does not relate such nonsense. It contains a CONTRAST. Do you see the "BUT" in verse #6

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

and the solution you're avoiding in verse 8 connected to verse #9

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ditto!


1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

"do not believe"

This is a present imperative with a negative particle which usually means to stop an act already in process.

The tendency of Christians is to accept strong personalities, logical arguments, or miraculous events as from God. Apparently the false teachers were claiming (1) to speak for God or (2) to have had a special revelation from God.

"every spirit" Spirit is used in the sense of a human person. See note at 1 John 4:6. This refers to a supposed message from God. Heresy comes from within the church (cf. 1 John 2:19).

The false teachers were claiming to speak for God. John asserts that there are two spiritual sources, God or Satan, behind human speech and action.

"but test the spirits" This is a Present active imperative.

This is both a spiritual gift (cf.
1 Cor. 12:10; 14:29) and a necessity for every believer, as are prayer, evangelism, and giving. This Greek word dokimazô has the connotation of "to test with a view toward approval." Believers must think the best of others unless the worst is proven (cf. 1 Cor. 13:4-7; 1 Thess. 5:20-21).


1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Stay strong in Christ Jesus-we are not here to seek the approval of men, but of our Lord Christ and our Abba-Father!

J.
 
So why do you insist I must be obedient to the Mosaic law?
While Paul denied that we can earn our righteousness as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), he also said that only doers of the law will be declared righteous (Romans 2:13), so clearly there must be a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, such as faith insofar as Paul said that the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:27-31).

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offered Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was justified was expressed as obedience to God, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his obedience as through it were earned as a wage (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and that his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they were expressing his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

While the only way to become righteous is through faith apart from needing to have done works that result in becoming righteous (Romans 3:27), to become righteous through faith means to become someone who practices righteousness through the same faith, which is why the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. So God's law is His instructions for how to practice righteousness, not for how to result in becoming righteous. For example, God's law reveals that helping the poor is a way to practice righteousness, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous because the only way to become righteous is through faith. So when God declares us to be righteous through faith He declaring us to be someone practices His righteousness through faith in obedience to His instructions for how to do that found in His law in accordance with following Christ's example.

It goes diametrically opposed to these Scripture references-yes?!
No.

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
According to Deuteronomy 30:11-14, the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to obey, so if Acts 15:10 had been referring to the Mosaic Law as being a heavy burden that no one could bear, then they would have been in direct disagreement with God. Moreover, the Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we will share it as Paul did (Romans 7:22), which is incompatible with viewing it as being a heavy burden that no one could bear. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who mediate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words while not allowing them to shape our view of the Mosaic Law, which means that the view that the Mosaic Law is a heavy burden that no one can bear is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. Moreover, we should not interpret the authors of the NT as holding a view of the Mosaic Law that is incompatible with what they quoted as Scripture.

In Acts 15:11, it clarifies that the ruling in 15:10 was not in regard to the Mosaic Law, but in regard to a means of salvation that was opposed to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was proposed in Acts 15:1. Earning our salvation was not the the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect purpose. The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God, so they should not be interpreted as trying to do that, and even if they had been trying to do that, then the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man.

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.


Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers
Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer or it does not, so it is contradictory to treat it as being an exhaustive list to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also a non-exhaustive list by saying that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow, such as the greatest two commandments, or those in verses like 1 Corinthian 6:9-11, Titus 3:1-3, or Galatians 5:19-21. Moreover, in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two, so they are all connected and including the greatest two commandments means that all of the other commandments come with them. It is not the case that Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list for mature Gentile believers, but as stated it was a list intended to not make things difficult for new believers, but as a starting point, which they excused by saying that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.
 
While Paul denied that we can earn our righteousness as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), he also said that only doers of the law will be declared righteous (Romans 2:13), so clearly there must be a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, such as faith insofar as Paul said that the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:27-31).

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offered Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was justified was expressed as obedience to God, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his obedience as through it were earned as a wage (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and that his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they were expressing his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

While the only way to become righteous is through faith apart from needing to have done works that result in becoming righteous (Romans 3:27), to become righteous through faith means to become someone who practices righteousness through the same faith, which is why the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. So God's law is His instructions for how to practice righteousness, not for how to result in becoming righteous. For example, God's law reveals that helping the poor is a way to practice righteousness, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous because the only way to become righteous is through faith. So when God declares us to be righteous through faith He declaring us to be someone practices His righteousness through faith in obedience to His instructions for how to do that found in His law in accordance with following Christ's example.


No.


According to Deuteronomy 30:11-14, the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to obey, so if Acts 15:10 had been referring to the Mosaic Law as being a heavy burden that no one could bear, then they would have been in direct disagreement with God. Moreover, the Psalms express an extremely positive view of the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we will share it as Paul did (Romans 7:22), which is incompatible with viewing it as being a heavy burden that no one could bear. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who mediate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words while not allowing them to shape our view of the Mosaic Law, which means that the view that the Mosaic Law is a heavy burden that no one can bear is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. Moreover, we should not interpret the authors of the NT as holding a view of the Mosaic Law that is incompatible with what they quoted as Scripture.

In Acts 15:11, it clarifies that the ruling in 15:10 was not in regard to the Mosaic Law, but in regard to a means of salvation that was opposed to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was proposed in Acts 15:1. Earning our salvation was not the the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect purpose. The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God, so they should not be interpreted as trying to do that, and even if they had been trying to do that, then the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man.


Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believer or it does not, so it is contradictory to treat it as being an exhaustive list to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also a non-exhaustive list by saying that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow, such as the greatest two commandments, or those in verses like 1 Corinthian 6:9-11, Titus 3:1-3, or Galatians 5:19-21. Moreover, in Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two, so they are all connected and including the greatest two commandments means that all of the other commandments come with them. It is not the case that Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list for mature Gentile believers, but as stated it was a list intended to not make things difficult for new believers, but as a starting point, which they excused by saying that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.
Friend-what religion are you embracing? Judaism?
Do you know what Torah means? It excludes the NT.

So why are you here imposing upon me that which is not written?

Abraham is declared righteous through faith.
1. (1-3) Abraham was not justified by works, but declared righteous through faith.
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

a. What then shall we say: In building on the thought begun in Romans 3:31 Paul asks the question, “Does the idea of justification through faith, apart from the works of the law, make what God did in the Old Testament irrelevant?”

b. What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found: In answering that question, Paul looks at Abraham, who was the most esteemed man among the Jewish people of his day – even greater than the “George Washington” of the American people.

c. For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about: If anyone could be justified by works, they would have something to boast about. Nevertheless such boasting is nothing before God (but not before God).

i. This boasting is nothing before God because even if works could justify a man, he would in some way still fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

ii. This boasting is nothing because before God, every pretense is stripped away and it is evident that no one can really be justified by works.

d. For what does the Scripture say? The Old Testament does not say Abraham was declared righteous because of his works. Instead, Genesis 15:6 says that Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

i. Paul makes it clear: Abraham’s righteousness did not come from performing good works, but from belief in God. It was a righteousness obtained through faith.

ii. Generally, the Jewish teachers of Paul’s day believed that Abraham was justified by his works, by keeping the law. Ancient passages from the rabbis say: “We find that Abraham our father had performed the whole Law before it was given” and “Abraham was perfect in all his deeds with the Lord.” The rabbis argued that Abraham kept the law perfectly before it was given, keeping it by intuition or anticipation.

iii. The Apostle Paul does not say that Abraham was made righteous in all of his doings, but God accounted Abraham as righteous. Our justification is not God making us perfectly righteous, but counting us as perfectly righteous. After we are counted righteous, then God begins making us truly righteous, culminating at our resurrection.

iv. “Counted is logizomai. It was used in early secular documents; ‘put down to one’s account, let my revenues be placed on deposit at the storehouse; I now give orders generally with regard to all payments actually made or credited to the government.’ Thus, God put to Abraham’s account, placed on deposit for him, credited to him, righteousness… Abraham possessed righteousness in the same manner as a person would possess a sum of money placed in his account in a bank.” (Wuest)

v. Genesis 15:6 does not tell us how other men accounted Abraham. Instead, it tells us how God accounted him. “Moses [in Genesis] does not, indeed, tell us what men thought of him [Abraham], but how he was accounted before the tribunal of God.” (Calvin)

vi. Remember that righteousness is also more than the absence of evil and guilt. It is a positive good, meaning that God does not only declare us innocent, but righteous.

2. (4-5) A distinction made between grace and works.
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

a. Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace: The idea of grace stands opposite to the principle of works; grace has to do with receiving the freely given gift of God, works has to do with earning our merit before God.

i. Wuest on charis, the ancient Greek word translated grace: “Signified in classical authors a favor done out of the spontaneous generosity of the heart without any expectation or return. Of course, this favor was always done to one’s friend, never to an enemy… But when charis comes into the New Testament, it takes an infinite leap forward, for the favor God did at Calvary was for those who hated Him.”

b. Not counted as grace but as debt: A system of works seeks to put God in debt to us, making God owe us His favor because of our good behavior. In works-thinking, God owes us salvation or blessing because of our good works.

i. God isn’t praising laziness here. “The antithesis is not simply between the worker and the non-worker but between the worker and person who does not work but believes.” (Murray)

c. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness: Righteousness can never be accounted to the one who approaches God on the principle of works. Instead it is given to the one who believes on Him who justifies the ungodly.

d. Him who justifies the ungodly: This is who God justifies – the ungodly. We might expect God would only justify a godly man but because of what Jesus did on the cross, God can justify the ungodly.

i. It isn’t as if God is happy with our ungodly condition. We are not justified because of our ungodliness, but despite our ungodliness.

ii. Morris quoting Denney: “The paradoxical phrase, Him that justifieth the ungodly, does not suggest that justification is a fiction, whether legal or of any other sort, but that it is a miracle.”

e. Faith is accounted for righteousness: Just as Abraham, so our faith is accounted for righteousness. This was not some special arrangement for Abraham alone. We can enter into this relationship with God also.

i. By this we understand that there are not two ways of salvation – saved by works through law-keeping in the Old Testament and saved by grace through faith in the New Testament. Everyone who has ever been saved – Old or New Testament – is saved by grace through faith, through their relationship of a trusting love with God. Because of the New Covenant we have benefits of salvation that Old Testament saints did not have but we do not have a different manner of salvation.
 
Don't pretend I didn't explain why it is a preposterous claim.

There is a very simple reply to what you've said above. I told a friend this many years ago. He later told me that he realized how wrong he was about the same claims you're making.

1. Does God live by these very same laws you claim are Eternal and represented by the law of Moses?

God has privileges that His subjects do not obtain.
You neglected to explain why it is preposterous, which is why I asked.

God does not hypocritically violate the commands that He has given.

You're bloviating. You several problems here. The largest problem is the fact you've done nothing your entire life but break said laws. You are a law breaker. Not the LAW GIVER.

You will NEVER become the LAW GIVER. That is what your argument requires. That you ultimately become equal to God through your own works of righteousness.
I supported my claim with Scripture. While I don't claim to be sinless, that that does not mean that I have never obeyed anything that God has instructed. If I break a law, then I repent and return to obedience through faith. I have not claimed to be the Lawgiver or that I will become the Lawgiver, nor does anything that I said require me to become the Lawgiver. I have not said anything about becoming equal with God through my own works of righteousness, so please interact with what I said rather than burning straw men.

So you're actually BETTER than those before you? Those God "found fault" with? You need to explain. Don't "talk around" the issue like you've been doing. Make this personal. Tell me how YOU are better than those before you.
I didn't claim to be better. It doesn't say that God found fault with everyone, but with those who did not continue in their covenant. For example, in Luke 1:5-6, it says that Zechariah and Elizabeth were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord, so they were not included among those that God found fault with.

Hyper Dispensational nonsense. Abraham pleased God through faith. Faith has always pleased God. Abraham pleased God before the law ever existed.

Jeremiah is written to a lawless people. Remember how they killed all the prophets sent to them? That is YOUR ancestry. YOUR HISTORY. MY HISTORY. Rebels that had no law.

You don't keep the law you claim to keep now. You are still a law breaker. You need to admit this. Don't talk around it. Admit that you're a law breaker. I know I am.
I am not a Dispensationalist. You do a lot more hand waving than actually interacting with what I've said to explain where you think my reasoning is wrong. In Genesis 26:5, Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. God's word says that His law is not too difficult to obey and this is the word of faith that I proclaim.


Here is exactly what Matt 7:23 says.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Why have you misrepresented Matt 7:23?

You're full of "double speak".
"Iniquity" is synonymous with "lawlessness". God's law is how we know what iniquity is, so I did not misrepresent Mathew 7:23.

Seriously? Romans 10 does not relate such nonsense. It contains a CONTRAST. Do you see the "BUT" in verse #6

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

and the solution you're avoiding in verse 8 connected to verse #9

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:5-8 should not be interpreted as contrasting what Moses said in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 with what he said in Deuteronomy 30:15-16, so "but" is an incorrect translation, rather it can and should be translated instead as "moreover". I'm not avoiding the solution, but rather Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim. How do you think that the mean of what Paul said in Romans 10:5-8 is relevant to the surrounding verses?

I know you brother. I don't. I can't say that I remember ever interacting with your before this forum. I warn you. You're getting very close to blaspheme here and I don't use that word lightly.

I stated the fact that only Christ has so loved His enemies without fail as referenced in Matthew 5:44. Yet, you DISMISS this to make yourself equal with Jesus Christ. Such breeds false doctrine and damnable heresy.

I suppose Jesus Christ is just your brother? Right?
My position is that followers of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, so it bizarre to me that you would consider this to be close to blasphemous. I've said nothing to dismiss Matthew 5:44 or to make myself equal with Jesus. Could you please try interacting with what I've said instead of all this bluster?
 
You neglected to explain why it is preposterous, which is why I asked.

God does not hypocritically violate the commands that He has given.

Sure I did.

Really? What about the 1st commandment? Does that apply to God? How about the Sabbath? Does God cease from all his labor on the Sabbath? What about honoring God's father and mother? How about coveting?

I can go on and on. Laws are made for subjects. Not THE Law Giver.

Now go ahead. Start breaking the "law" apart into things you must keep and things you don't. I'll wait.
 
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I supported my claim with Scripture. While I don't claim to be sinless, that that does not mean that I have never obeyed anything that God has instructed. If I break a law, then I repent and return to obedience through faith. I have not claimed to be the Lawgiver or that I will become the Lawgiver, nor does anything that I said require me to become the Lawgiver. I have not said anything about becoming equal with God through my own works of righteousness, so please interact with what I said rather than burning straw men.

No strawmen exist. You don't have to specifically say it. Your words require it.
 
I didn't claim to be better. It doesn't say that God found fault with everyone, but with those who did not continue in their covenant. For example, in Luke 1:5-6, it says that Zechariah and Elizabeth were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord, so they were not included among those that God found fault with.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Notice the tense? "Walking". At that time, they were blameless. It is not the indication of the absence of guilt. After all they died. Death establishes guilt.
 
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I am not a Dispensationalist. You do a lot more hand waving than actually interacting with what I've said to explain where you think my reasoning is wrong.

I didn't say you were. I said that what you said was Hyper Dispensationalism. Which it is. You may not know the subject but I do.

In Genesis 26:5, Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. God's word says that His law is not too difficult to obey and this is the word of faith that I proclaim.

Needless to say, you're not Abraham. If God's law isn't too difficult to keep, then why have YOU not keep it?
 
Help me out here guys, one of our main goals is to remain cordial. Please try to keep the posts about the post and not about the poster. In other words you can talk all your like about what someone posts just don't talk about the individual unless it's uplifting. It means try not to say mean or derogatory things about each other. That makes us all look bad.
 
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