The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
civic
Active Member
its called peace meal theology- they pick and choose what they like and don't like and make up their own religionYou are definitely high on something and it's not because of the ground.
The entire Heaven is directing worship and prayer to the Father's Throne wherein Jesus sits with the Father (Rev 3:21). The unitarians are the ones with folded hands in a corner of Heaven refusing to offer worship and prayer to Jesus.
Runningman
Active Member
@Pancho Frijoles these trins are getting wild.
Runningman
Active Member
The Father never said. Jesus never said it. You must be an atheist.
civic
Active Member
unitiarians gone wild- an epic failure when it comes to the knowledge of Christ.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
The peace pipe of men has been filled full of that which maketh many a soul very high indeed .You are definitely high on something and it's not because of the ground.
The entire Heaven is directing worship and prayer to the Father's Throne wherein Jesus sits with the Father (Rev 3:21). The unitarians are the ones with folded hands in a corner of Heaven refusing to offer worship and prayer to Jesus.
Tis as a man who smoked a bong on the moon , who knows if he is ever coming back down again .
civic
Active Member
nice try-
You claim Jesus never said I Am God.
And the Father never claimed He is God.
This is a two way street and it works both ways.
as they say whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
you cannot see the forrest through the trees.
next fallacy
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
There might be something you dont know my friend .
Have you ever heard of the BAHI
go and look it up cause You just clicked on the post of one who claims to be one .
NO SIR NOT ME . i have NAUGHT TO DO WITH THE BAHI . and when you read their doctrine
I AM DARN SURE you wont either . GO now and behold the doctrines of the bahi
and then ask the pancho why it is he follows that .
civic
Active Member
thats called delusion, deception and the carnal mind that sets itself against the knowledge of Christ as per Paul in 2 Cor 10.
its a stonghold the enemy has over the carnal mind to hold n in captivity by the god of this world- 2 cor 4:3-4.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
GOD . Lets see what we KNOW GOD called himself . I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , the first and the last .
JESUS the CHRIST . now lets see what JESUS called himself in revelation . I am alpha and omega, the first and the last .
SPOT ON RIGHT MY FRIEND . and we sheep DONT HEED a word one outta they mouth .
PRETTY clear what I AM ALPHA and OMEGA , first and the last means and WHO SAID IT .
Thanks for the lovey reminders you are trying to bring to this person . But as you see MANY DO RESIST .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
I must admit my friend you did a far better job than i did . I suppose i got a bit upset at what they said
and i dropped to a lower level . BUT THANK YOU FRIEND FOR THE LOVELY REMINDER .
We must speak TRUTH and not drop to the lower level .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
you do realize the man your calling upon is BAHI .
sure hope you dont follow that mindset . GO to and behold the doctrine of the BAHI , for it is deadly indeed .
I dont marvel one bit either . CHRISTENDOM ITSELF has been infiltrated
by men with one agenda . REMOVE THE DIETY OF CHRIST , let us mold the religoins to be as one .
civic
Active Member
Yes I have gone through the revelation passages on who the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End is and they deny it. The fact is Jesus identifies Himself as the above and declares I Am the Almighty- the Lord God who was and is and is to come- that is clearly the Lord Jesus in the passage and the Father is NEVER identified as the One who is Coming in the N.T.- its always the Son.
They are up a creek without. PADDLE drowning in the deep currents of false doctrines.
civic
Active Member
Rev 22:13, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
We can see here that Whoever is the Alpha/Omega also claims to be the first/last AND the beginning/end. It’s the same Person.
If we look back in Rev 1:17-18 we see the following:
“…Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
So, the One Who is first/last (and then is also Alpha/Omega and beginning/end) is the same Person who was dead and is alive forever more. It doesn’t take a scholar to figure out Who is the One speaking here. It does take a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away something so obvious.
The term "first/last" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice it is used along with "Alpha/Omega" with the Person claiming to be "first/last" AND the "Alpha/Omega."
"Alpha/Omega" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice with "first/last" and twice with "beginning/end."
"Beginning/end" occurs 3 times: twice with "Alpha/Omega" and once with "Alpha/Omega" AND "first/last."
In all of these texts, the speaker always refers to Himself with both or all of the titles. To say, "Well, this time it's Jehovah who is the first/last, this next time it's Jesus, then later it's Jehovah again..." is the mental gymnastics to which I'm referring to.
Is God the first/last or is Jesus the first/last? Is God the Alpha/Omega or is Jesus the Alpha/Omega? Is God the beginning/end or is Jesus the beginning/end. An obvious way to reconcile the verses is to understand that Jesus is God.
According to unitarians, it seems God claimed to be the first/last in one sense while Jesus claimed to be first/last in another sense. The Uni's seem to gloss over the blatant connection of first/last with beginning/end and Alpha/Omega. In each verse, the Speaker who claims one title also claims one or both of the others. It's all the same person.
I usually wait patiently for unitarians to reply but this point has been nagging at me so I have to comment preemptively. I really am baffled by their suggestion from other discussions in the past that “first/last” has some meaning here other than the obvious one (a title synonymous with Alpha/Omega). They even say that Alpha/Omega is never used of the Son? Incredible!! We know that context is king so I would like to remind other readers of the context of Rev 1:17-18 (beginning in v.10, Young’s Literal):
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'
And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.
And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, `Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
Do you realize this is one scene? The Speaker identifies Himself in v. 11 as “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.” John turns to see who is speaking and sees “one like to a son of man” (other translations have “the Son of man”). Perhaps John is saying, "I saw someone who looked like Jesus." Then finally, in v. 17-18, the Speaker indeed identifies Himself as the One who is living and became dead and is now alive again forever.
Unitarians: I guess you identify the Alpha and Omega in v. 8 as Jehovah and v. 11 as Jesus? I guess you don’t see the term “the First and the Last” as a title equivalent to “the Alpha and Omega”? If so, you are definitely seeing something in the text that an ordinary reading doesn’t see beacuse of your bias.
It’s a title ascribed to the Almighty. I didn’t think it needed a more precise definition to be understood. What about, “the one who is and who was and who to come”? Does that need to be defined? I guess we could talk about a precise definition but I don’t think that will change my point. The Alpha/Omega is self-described as “the Almighty (1:8) AND the First/Last (22:13). The First/Last is self-described as the one who was dead and is alive forever more (1:18). Again, there are either 2 people who are the first and last OR Jesus is the Almighty.
Conclusion: Scripture declares YHWH is the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God/YHWH. Christ is YHWH.
hope this helps !!!
We can see here that Whoever is the Alpha/Omega also claims to be the first/last AND the beginning/end. It’s the same Person.
If we look back in Rev 1:17-18 we see the following:
“…Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
So, the One Who is first/last (and then is also Alpha/Omega and beginning/end) is the same Person who was dead and is alive forever more. It doesn’t take a scholar to figure out Who is the One speaking here. It does take a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away something so obvious.
The term "first/last" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice it is used along with "Alpha/Omega" with the Person claiming to be "first/last" AND the "Alpha/Omega."
"Alpha/Omega" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice with "first/last" and twice with "beginning/end."
"Beginning/end" occurs 3 times: twice with "Alpha/Omega" and once with "Alpha/Omega" AND "first/last."
In all of these texts, the speaker always refers to Himself with both or all of the titles. To say, "Well, this time it's Jehovah who is the first/last, this next time it's Jesus, then later it's Jehovah again..." is the mental gymnastics to which I'm referring to.
Is God the first/last or is Jesus the first/last? Is God the Alpha/Omega or is Jesus the Alpha/Omega? Is God the beginning/end or is Jesus the beginning/end. An obvious way to reconcile the verses is to understand that Jesus is God.
According to unitarians, it seems God claimed to be the first/last in one sense while Jesus claimed to be first/last in another sense. The Uni's seem to gloss over the blatant connection of first/last with beginning/end and Alpha/Omega. In each verse, the Speaker who claims one title also claims one or both of the others. It's all the same person.
I usually wait patiently for unitarians to reply but this point has been nagging at me so I have to comment preemptively. I really am baffled by their suggestion from other discussions in the past that “first/last” has some meaning here other than the obvious one (a title synonymous with Alpha/Omega). They even say that Alpha/Omega is never used of the Son? Incredible!! We know that context is king so I would like to remind other readers of the context of Rev 1:17-18 (beginning in v.10, Young’s Literal):
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'
And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.
And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, `Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
Do you realize this is one scene? The Speaker identifies Himself in v. 11 as “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.” John turns to see who is speaking and sees “one like to a son of man” (other translations have “the Son of man”). Perhaps John is saying, "I saw someone who looked like Jesus." Then finally, in v. 17-18, the Speaker indeed identifies Himself as the One who is living and became dead and is now alive again forever.
Unitarians: I guess you identify the Alpha and Omega in v. 8 as Jehovah and v. 11 as Jesus? I guess you don’t see the term “the First and the Last” as a title equivalent to “the Alpha and Omega”? If so, you are definitely seeing something in the text that an ordinary reading doesn’t see beacuse of your bias.
It’s a title ascribed to the Almighty. I didn’t think it needed a more precise definition to be understood. What about, “the one who is and who was and who to come”? Does that need to be defined? I guess we could talk about a precise definition but I don’t think that will change my point. The Alpha/Omega is self-described as “the Almighty (1:8) AND the First/Last (22:13). The First/Last is self-described as the one who was dead and is alive forever more (1:18). Again, there are either 2 people who are the first and last OR Jesus is the Almighty.
Conclusion: Scripture declares YHWH is the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God/YHWH. Christ is YHWH.
hope this helps !!!
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
This is how i view false doctrine .
And believe you me they preach much false doctrine and do deny and call JESUS a liar .
Now before i write my parable per say , allow me to say
JESUS SAID i am alpha and omega , the first and the last and they say to JESUS , YOU LIE you are no alpha and omega , first and the last .
PRETTY darn scary when YOU call the ALPHA and OMEGA A LIAR . i mean just think about how blasphemous that is .
Now allow me the parable of the shiner .
There once lived a man who could shine any shoe bright
could shine a windown so clean a bird would fly right through it
THERE was nothing he could not shine and put sparkle too .
SO one day He goes before the town and says to all i have such a delightful treat for you all .
And he presented before them a shining brownie . MAN how it glowed and man how it did shine .
And he said to the town come and eat .
But what the town did not know and could not discern was
though it shined bright , though it gleaned such a beautiful brown deep and rich and lusterous in color
It was a polished turd .
NOW sheep dont feast on dung no matter how one shines it up to make it look so darn good .
Runningman
Active Member
Deuteronomy 32:6
"Is this the way you repay the Lord, you foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?"
Psalm 68:5
"A father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling."
Psalm 89:26
"He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’"
Isaiah 63:16
"But you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us or Israel acknowledge us; you, Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name."
Isaiah 64:8
"Yet you, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand."
Malachi 2:10
"Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?"
Matthew 5:16
"In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."
Matthew 6:9
"This, then, is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name...’" (The Lord's Prayer.)
Matthew 7:11
"If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!"
John 1:14
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 20:17
"Jesus said, ‘Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”’"
Romans 1:7
"To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Corinthians 8:6
"Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."
2 Corinthians 1:3
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort..."
Galatians 4:6
"Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, ‘Abba, Father.’"
Ephesians 4:6
"One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
1 Peter 1:3
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
1 John 3:1
"See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are!"
Runningman
Active Member
Bahi knows who God is more than Trinitarianism. Bahi is not my prefecnce, but when in Rome.
civic
Active Member
like I said and you seem to IGNORE- the Father NEVER said I Am God.
I can find just as many verses as you did above where Jesus is called God.
next fallacy
Hi friend. In chapter 16 we read the Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus, a few verses later we read the Father glorifies the Son, in 17:5 we read the Father and the Son glorified each other before the world existed, why would I deny Jesus His glory? Maybe you should stop running?
Runningman
Active Member
So God isn't God according to you? I just showed you directly where the Father is God in the OT and NT. No mention of "a son" there.
