The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

My arguments are Biblical so they don't refute my own view. I wouldn't say something that refuted my own view.


Keep your posts more direct. If you're copying and pasting the same thing you had previously said after it got refuted or addressed then I am not going to read it again. Just saying people are not addressing your posts is false. Many Christians have raised up this forum to inoculate your heresies.
Your arguments are not biblical

You can't explain why you offer arguments which are contrary to your own view, nor can you deal with rebuttal

Sorry but you

Failed to rebut 1 Cor 10:4 and 9 which shows the presence of Christ in Old Testament events

That contradicts your argument denying his pre-existemce and also offers support for his deity


You stil Contradict your own argument denying Christ's pre-existence with the argument you present for a god reading at John 1:1

and still offer no defense

Also With your argument for firstborn in col 1;15

and with your argument for beginning at Rev 3:14

you contradict your claim the bible does not state Christ is eternal with your own argument at 1John 1:1

When you argue because he is called the eternal life he cannot be personal

You ignore multiple examples of Christ being worshipped and prayed to

You never deal with the Old Testament messenger of the lord who is called YHWH

ignoring inconvenient scripture and offering bald denial has been your main tactic

and now you offer deception

You have not rebutted the refutation of your claim at 1Cor 10:4 & 9

nor have You have not dealt with the examples i gave concerning the use of the term firstborn.

On this forum you espouse heresies and dishonest claims which is why nothing specific appears in your post
 
He now has a avalanche of verses that destroy Unitarianism. He's beginning to designate them as flat out lies as he just did with "the Word was God" phrase (John 1:1). He's very close to calling Rev 3:21 a lie the way he is revolted by it and what it signifies. His revulsion of the Bible is brewing ...
Yes. revealing the nature
 
There you go again fantasizing that we are God. Are you sure you're not a Mormon with all your talk about everyone being God? Are you going to get your own planet too?
That's the collateral damage you take for using it as a verse to say Jesus is God. You have been explained this seven ways to Sunday and you still don't get it. The condition for being God in Rev. 3:21 is sitting on the throne of Jesus. It says that those who overcome sit on the throne of Jesus. The condition for being God is met. You can't have it both ways. Either Jesus and the church are God or they aren't.

As far as I am concerned, you argument has been debunked.

Revelation 3
21To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
 
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That's the collateral damage you take for using it as a verse to say Jesus is God. You have been explained this seven ways to Sunday and you still don't get it. The condition for being God in Rev. 3:21 is sitting on the throne of Jesus. It says that those who overcome sit on the throne of Jesus. The condition for being God is met. You can't have it both ways. Either Jesus and the church are God or they aren't.

As far as I am concern, you argument has been debunked.

Revelation 3
21To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
conflating Jesus throne with the Fathers throne.

nice try elevating yourself to God status.

the throne in heaven is not the same throne on this earth where Christ reigns during His millennial kingdom.
 
Your arguments are not biblical

You can't explain why you offer arguments which are contrary to your own view, nor can you deal with rebuttal

Sorry but you

Failed to rebut 1 Cor 10:4 and 9 which shows the presence of Christ in Old Testament events

That contradicts your argument denying his pre-existemce and also offers support for his deity


You stil Contradict your own argument denying Christ's pre-existence with the argument you present for a god reading at John 1:1

and still offer no defense

Also With your argument for firstborn in col 1;15

and with your argument for beginning at Rev 3:14

you contradict your claim the bible does not state Christ is eternal with your own argument at 1John 1:1

When you argue because he is called the eternal life he cannot be personal

You ignore multiple examples of Christ being worshipped and prayed to

You never deal with the Old Testament messenger of the lord who is called YHWH

ignoring inconvenient scripture and offering bald denial has been your main tactic

and now you offer deception

You have not rebutted the refutation of your claim at 1Cor 10:4 & 9

nor have You have not dealt with the examples i gave concerning the use of the term firstborn.

On this forum you espouse heresies and dishonest claims which is why nothing specific appears in your post
You have lost 1 Corinthians 10:4 & 9 as a proof text for the pre-existence of Jesus.

1 Cor. 10:4 says it's a spiritual rock, i.e., not a person. And there is not a person named Christ following the Israelites around in the desert. The Christ or Messiah is a human and didn't exist until after his birth. He wasn't made Christ until after he was already human according to Acts 2:36. The Messiah didn't pre-exist as the Messiah so the idea of Christ being a spiritual rock that followed them is either prophetic or a misnomer. It's not a misnomer, therefore you're flatout wrong.

The word "Christ" doesn't exist in the manuscripts for 1 Corinthians 10:9 because it doesn't make any sense if it does. If it did, it would be another misnomer because the Christ didn't exist yet. Pretty difficult to anger a non-existent being. The best versions of 1 Cor. 10:9 say "the Lord" in reference to the Father, not Jesus.

1 Cor. 10 (NASB)
9Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.
 
conflating Jesus throne with the Fathers throne.

nice try elevating yourself to God status.

the throne in heaven is not the same throne on this earth where Christ reigns during His millennial kingdom.
So Jesus' throne isn't the throne of God? Be careful or you'll get caught in the same pickle @synergy is stuck in.
 
So Jesus' throne isn't the throne of God? Be careful or you'll get caught in the same pickle @synergy is stuck in.
Jesus earthly throne is not the heavenly Throne- 2 different thrones. Just like Davids throne in the same as The Fathers throne.

One is earthly and the other is in heaven.

You have conflated them as usual.

like you said:

you have lost- game, set and match. :)
 
Jesus earthly throne is not the heavenly Throne- 2 different thrones. Just like Davids throne in the same as The Fathers throne.

One is earthly and the other is in heaven.

You have conflated them as usual.

like you said:

you have lost- game, set and match. :)
So Jesus' throne isn't the throne of God then? Is that the admission you just made? That's a check mate buddy.

Unitarianism 1
Trinitarianism 0
 
So Jesus' throne isn't the throne of God then? Is that the admission you just made? That's a check mate buddy.

Unitarianism 1
Trinitarianism 0
Conflating them again. Jesus has 2 thrones one in heaven and will have one on this earth in the future.

next fallacy

check and mate !!!
 
The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9; Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3).

Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. There are countless other passages that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1,000 years.got?

Jesus will establish His 1,000-year Kingdom on earth. In Jeremiah 30, God promises Israel that the yoke of foreign oppression would be cast off forever, and “instead, they will serve the Lord their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them” (verse 9). Speaking of the same time, God says through the prophet Ezekiel, “My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees” (Ezekiel 37:24). From the prophecies of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, some have concluded that King David will be resurrected during the Millennium and installed as co-regent over Israel, ruling the Kingdom with Jesus Christ.

Jeremiah’s and Ezekiel’s prophecies should be understood this way: the Jews would one day return to their own country, their yoke of slavery would be removed, their fellowship with God would be restored, and God would provide them with a King of His own choosing. This King would, in some way, be like King David of old. These passages can refer to none other than the long-awaited Messiah, the “Servant of the Lord” (cf. Isaiah 42:1). The Jews sometimes referred to the Messiah as “David” because it was known the Messiah would come from David’s lineage. The New Testament often refers to Jesus as the “Son of David” (Matthew 15:22; Mark 10:47).

There are other reasons, besides being the Son of David, that the Messiah is referred to as “David.” King David in the Old Testament was a man after God’s own heart (Acts 13:22), he was an unlikely king of God’s own choosing, and the Spirit of God was upon Him (1 Samuel 16:12–13). David, then, is a type of Christ (a type is a person who foreshadows someone else). Another example of this kind of typology is Elijah, whose ministry foreshadowed that of John the Baptist to the extent that Malachi called John “Elijah” (Malachi 4:5; cf. Luke 1:17; Mark 9:11–13).

David will be resurrected at the beginning of the Millennium, along with all the other Old Testament saints. And David will be one of those who reign with Jesus in the Kingdom (Daniel 7:27). However, all believers will rule the nations (Revelation 2:26–27; 20:4) and judge the world (1 Corinthians 6:2). The apostle Peter calls Christians “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation” (1 Peter 2:9). In Revelation 3:21, Jesus says about the believer who conquers, “I will grant him to sit with me on my throne.” In some sense, then, Christians will share authority with Christ (cf. Ephesians 2:6). There is some biblical evidence, as in the Parable of the Ten Minas (Luke 19:11–27), that individuals will be given more or less authority in the Kingdom according to how they handle the responsibilities God has given them in this age (Luke 19:17).

Jesus is the King of kings (Revelation 19:16). Humanly speaking, Jesus is from the Davidic dynasty; but in power, in glory, in righteousness, and in every other way, He is rightly called the Greater David. “The government will be on his shoulders” (Isaiah 9:6). The Old and New Testaments reveal that the future King during the Millennium and all eternity is Jesus Christ and Him alone (Jeremiah 23:5; Isaiah 9:7; 33:22; Revelation 17:14; 1 Timothy 6:15).got?

conclusion: over 3 dozen bible references proving @Runningman wrong who has no bible references for his view.

hope this helps !!!
 
This was so easy refuting @Runningman :)

you have no scripture just questions. I have scripture that answers all questions about the earthly and heavenly kingdom/thrones.

back to the drawing board.
 
Conflating them again. Jesus has 2 thrones one in heaven and will have one on this earth in the future.

next fallacy

check and mate !!!
"All authority has been given to me in heaven and earth"

So Jesus doesn't have the authority of God in earth, therefore his earthly throne is not the throne of God. Therefore you have just provided a powerful argument against the deity of Jesus.

By the way, the Revelation 3:21 throne of Jesus refers to a heavenly throne that those who overcome sit on.
 
This was so easy refuting @Runningman :)

you have no scripture just questions. I have scripture that answers all questions about the earthly and heavenly kingdom/thrones.

back to the drawing board.
I have Revelation 3:21 that proves that those who overcome sit on the throne of Jesus. Whatever throne of Jesus it is, they sit on it. Therefore it's not the throne of God. I'm calling check mate on you and @synergy
 
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You have lost 1 Corinthians 10:4 & 9 as a proof text for the pre-existence of Jesus.

1 Cor. 10:4 says it's a spiritual rock, i.e., not a person. And there is not a person named Christ following the Israelites around in the desert. The Christ or Messiah is a human and didn't exist until after his birth. He wasn't made Christ until after he was already human according to Acts 2:36. The Messiah didn't pre-exist as the Messiah so the idea of Christ being a spiritual rock that followed them is either prophetic or a misnomer. It's not a misnomer, therefore you're flatout wrong.

The word "Christ" doesn't exist in the manuscripts for 1 Corinthians 10:9 because it doesn't make any sense if it does. If it did, it would be another misnomer because the Christ didn't exist yet. Pretty difficult to anger a non-existent being. The best versions of 1 Cor. 10:9 say "the Lord" in reference to the Father, not Jesus.

1 Cor. 10 (NASB)
9Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.
You are delirious

lets look at your claims regarding 1 Cor 10:4 and 1Cor 10:9

and list some translations

1 Corinthians 10:4 (ESV) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NIV) — 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

All say Christ Cristos in the Greek using a masculine singular noun

An impersonal thing follows no one

now lets look at verse 9

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (ESV) — 9 We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (LEB) — 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NIV) — 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (UASV) — 9 Neither let us put the Lord to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.

not one speaks of an impersonal anointing, nor can one provoke an impersonal thing

and in context the lord is Christ


And BTW here are the various texts

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NA27) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν ἔπιον πόμα· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας, ἡ πέτρα δὲ ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Nestle Aland 27

1 Corinthians 10:4 (WH1881MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Wescott-Hort

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1550MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Stephan's Textus Receiptus - received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1881) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πόμα πνευματικὸν ἔπιον· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας· ἡ δὲ πέτρα ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Schrivener Textus Receptus

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Elzevir) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Elzevir's received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Tisch) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Tischendorf's

1 Corinthians 10:4 (BYZ) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Byzantine majority text

It's obvious you are a bible denier

either ignoring or denying what the bible states

either one is completely deluded or completely opposed to biblical truth to argue as you do
 
You are delirious

lets look at your claims regarding 1 Cor 10:4 and 1Cor 10:9

and list some translations

1 Corinthians 10:4 (ESV) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NIV) — 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

All say Christ Cristos in the Greek using a masculine singular noun

An impersonal thing follows no one

now lets look at verse 9

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (ESV) — 9 We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (LEB) — 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NIV) — 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (UASV) — 9 Neither let us put the Lord to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.

not one speaks of an impersonal anointing, nor can one provoke an impersonal thing

and in context the lord is Christ


And BTW here are the various texts

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NA27) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν ἔπιον πόμα· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας, ἡ πέτρα δὲ ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Nestle Aland 27

1 Corinthians 10:4 (WH1881MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Wescott-Hort

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1550MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Stephan's Textus Receiptus - received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1881) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πόμα πνευματικὸν ἔπιον· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας· ἡ δὲ πέτρα ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Schrivener Textus Receptus

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Elzevir) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Elzevir's received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Tisch) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Tischendorf's

1 Corinthians 10:4 (BYZ) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Byzantine majority text

It's obvious you are a bible denier

either ignoring or denying what the bible states

either one is completely deluded or completely opposed to biblical truth to argue as you do
Amen
 
You are delirious

lets look at your claims regarding 1 Cor 10:4 and 1Cor 10:9

and list some translations

1 Corinthians 10:4 (ESV) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NIV) — 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

All say Christ Cristos in the Greek using a masculine singular noun

An impersonal thing follows no one

now lets look at verse 9

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (ESV) — 9 We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (LEB) — 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NIV) — 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (UASV) — 9 Neither let us put the Lord to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.

not one speaks of an impersonal anointing, nor can one provoke an impersonal thing

and in context the lord is Christ


And BTW here are the various texts

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NA27) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν ἔπιον πόμα· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας, ἡ πέτρα δὲ ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Nestle Aland 27

1 Corinthians 10:4 (WH1881MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Wescott-Hort

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1550MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Stephan's Textus Receiptus - received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1881) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πόμα πνευματικὸν ἔπιον· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας· ἡ δὲ πέτρα ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Schrivener Textus Receptus

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Elzevir) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Elzevir's received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Tisch) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Tischendorf's

1 Corinthians 10:4 (BYZ) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Byzantine majority text

It's obvious you are a bible denier

either ignoring or denying what the bible states

either one is completely deluded or completely opposed to biblical truth to argue as you do
My talking points have remain unaddressed. Feel free to not respond if you're just going to bury my comments with useless repetition of the same things you have already been saying. Let others have a chance to address this since you won't or can't.



You have lost 1 Corinthians 10:4 & 9 as a proof text for the pre-existence of Jesus.

1 Cor. 10:4 says it's a spiritual rock, i.e., not a person. And there is not a person named Christ following the Israelites around in the desert. The Christ or Messiah is a human and didn't exist until after his birth. He wasn't made Christ until after he was already human according to Acts 2:36. The Messiah didn't pre-exist as the Messiah so the idea of Christ being a spiritual rock that followed them is either prophetic or a misnomer. It's not a misnomer, therefore you're flatout wrong.

The word "Christ" doesn't exist in the manuscripts for 1 Corinthians 10:9 because it doesn't make any sense if it does. If it did, it would be another misnomer because the Christ didn't exist yet. Pretty difficult to anger a non-existent being. The best versions of 1 Cor. 10:9 say "the Lord" in reference to the Father, not Jesus.

1 Cor. 10 (NASB)
9Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.
 
My talking points have remain unaddressed. Feel free to not respond if you're just going to bury my comments with useless repetition of the same things you have already been saying. Let others have a chance to address this since you won't or can't.



You have lost 1 Corinthians 10:4 & 9 as a proof text for the pre-existence of Jesus.

1 Cor. 10:4 says it's a spiritual rock, i.e., not a person. And there is not a person named Christ following the Israelites around in the desert. The Christ or Messiah is a human and didn't exist until after his birth. He wasn't made Christ until after he was already human according to Acts 2:36. The Messiah didn't pre-exist as the Messiah so the idea of Christ being a spiritual rock that followed them is either prophetic or a misnomer. It's not a misnomer, therefore you're flatout wrong.

The word "Christ" doesn't exist in the manuscripts for 1 Corinthians 10:9 because it doesn't make any sense if it does. If it did, it would be another misnomer because the Christ didn't exist yet. Pretty difficult to anger a non-existent being. The best versions of 1 Cor. 10:9 say "the Lord" in reference to the Father, not Jesus.

1 Cor. 10 (NASB)
9Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.
As I stated delirious

You are delirious

lets look at your claims regarding 1 Cor 10:4 and 1Cor 10:9

and list some translations

1 Corinthians 10:4 (ESV) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (LEB) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NIV) — 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NASB 2020) — 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

All say Christ Cristos in the Greek using a masculine singular noun

An impersonal thing follows no one

Hello your false claim is exposed


now lets look at verse 9

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (ESV) — 9 We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (LEB) — 9 nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes,

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NIV) — 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (UASV) — 9 Neither let us put the Lord to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by serpents.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (NASB 2020) — 9 Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes.

not one speaks of an impersonal anointing, nor can one provoke an impersonal thing

exposing your false claim once again


and in context the lord is Christ


And BTW here are the various texts

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NA27) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν ἔπιον πόμα· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας, ἡ πέτρα δὲ ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Nestle Aland 27

1 Corinthians 10:4 (WH1881MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Wescott-Hort

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1550MR) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Stephan's Textus Receiptus - received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (TR1881) — 4 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πόμα πνευματικὸν ἔπιον· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας· ἡ δὲ πέτρα ἦν ὁ Χριστός. Schrivener Textus Receptus

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Elzevir) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Elzevir's received text

1 Corinthians 10:4 (Tisch) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πνευματικον επιον πομα επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η πετρα δε ην ο χριστος Tischendorf's

1 Corinthians 10:4 (BYZ) — 4 και παντες το αυτο πομα πνευματικον επιον επινον γαρ εκ πνευματικης ακολουθουσης πετρας η δε πετρα ην ο χριστος Byzantine majority text

It's obvious you are a bible denier

either ignoring or denying what the bible states

either one is completely deluded or completely opposed to biblical truth to argue as you do

BTW you must think Jehovah is a thing as well because he is termed a Rock

Hello

Deuteronomy 32:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: For all his ways are judgment: A God of truth and without iniquity, Just and right is he.

Your arguments are refuted
 
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