The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[civic]

the demons acknowledged Jesus as Messiah. Evildoers can interpret stuff correctly and is acceptable as correct since the gospel writers do not speak of a problem with their acknowledgement of Christ's divinity claim based on the event. You have to deny too much of scripture to adapt the ideas to a Unitarian view.

Yes they know and now to Him pleading for Mercy as their Creator who has complete dominion and authority over them.

 

[civic]

So now you're denigrating Christ's very words "ἐγώ εἰμι" as being a "fallacy". It's not enough that you accuse John's words of coming from a "Oneness" advocate. You're now denigrating Christ's words. Stop.embarrassing yourself.

Yep

 

[Runningman]

Who other than Jesus literally saw the Father? Book, chapter, and verse please.

John 14
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

They're John's verses, not mine. You're effectively accusing him of being a "Oneness" advocate. Stop.embarrassing yourself.

Ok, I looked at your previous reply again. So the way to make the God of Abraham be His own servant/son would be to make them be one in the same. "orthodox trinitarianism" says the Father and Son are not the same person. So that leaves you in modalism since you are apparently arguing to the contrary.

 

[synergy]

I got it already. Ego eimi isn't used in the exclusive sense to claim deity that you are suggesting. Nor did Jesus repeat God's words in Exodus 3:14,15.

Read the Greek OT (Septuagint). That's the OT that the Apostles overwhelmingly quoted from when they wrote their Epistles. "ἐγώ εἰμι" is the actual name of God in Ex 3:14 (Septuagint).

 

[Runningman]

Read the Greek OT (Septuagint). That's the OT that the Apostles overwhelmingly quoted from when they wrote their Epistles. "ἐγώ εἰμι" is the actual name of God in Ex 3:14 (Septuagint).

You got the wrong idea because you are still making an argument from an alleged "truth" that you are still trying to prove; since you don't have a description of the trinity in the Bible then you have gotten no where. Stick to the betters in your religion. Most say the trinity is a mystery. Know your place.

 

[mikesw]

Yes I understand you went off on a tangent, but before you continue then who is the mediator being talked about in Galatians 1:19? To be direct... who was the mediator of the Law? None other than Moses?

Galatians 3 KJV
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

you were confused by thinking the talk of the Shema is a tangent. But it is critical to understanding Gal 3:20.

I would be making a timid guess that you know that the law was by the hand of a mediator who is Moses.

Israel people were resolved in their conflict with God by a mediator named Moses with the law in hand.
Christ, as the promisee along with Abraham could have no conflict with God nor could have a mediator because of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. If Christ Jesus had been just a man, there could be a mediator if he conflicted with the Father. Then Paul's writing would be nonsensical, which is something you do with much of scripture.

 

[Runningman]

@synergy I find it ironic that you tell me to run away because my handle is Runningman, but I am here everyday and we are (un)lucky to get your prf

you were confused by thinking the talk of the Shema is a tangent. But it is critical to understanding Gal 3:20.

I would be making a timid guess that you know that the law was by the hand of a mediator who is Moses.

Israel people were resolved in their conflict with God by a mediator named Moses with the law in hand.
Christ, as the promisee along with Abraham could have no conflict with God nor could have a mediator because of the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. If Christ Jesus had been just a man, there could be a mediator if he conflicted with the Father. Then Paul's writing would be nonsensical, which is something you do with much of scripture.

No I am not confused. You legit overlooked the fact that Moses is the mediator of the Old Covenant because you have trinitarian goggles on and get locked in tunnel vision on what Jesus is doing while ignoring everything else others do that is exactly the same. You have lost the debate on this particular point. I actually gracefully let you change the subject, but here you are just repeating it again and again. Your conclusion is massively flawed if you think that since Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant then that makes him the same as God, therefore Moses must be God, too, following your reasoning.

 

[synergy]

John 14
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

(John 6:46) not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One being from God, He has seen the Father.

No one has directly seen the Father. Instead, one can see the Image of the Father which is Jesus himself. That's what "He that has seen me has seen the Father" means.

Ok, I looked at your previous reply again. So the way to make the God of Abraham be His own servant/son would be to make them be one in the same. "orthodox trinitarianism" says the Father and Son are not the same person. So that leaves you in modalism since you are apparently arguing to the contrary.

One can see the Image of the Father which is Jesus himself. That is not modalism.

 

[synergy]

@synergy I find it ironic that you tell me to run away because my handle is Runningman, but I am here everyday and we are (un)lucky to get your prf

You can take all the time in the world to respond to me but when you do you oftentimes ignore (run away from) the verses I had brought forward into the conversation. When the wife calls or something comes up by all means attend to that. What I object to is when you ignore the verses or questions I bring up when you do respond.

 

[mikesw]

@synergy I find it ironic that you tell me to run away because my handle is Runningman, but I am here everyday and we are (un)lucky to get your prf

No I am not confused. You legit overlooked the fact that Moses is the mediator of the Old Covenant because you have trinitarian goggles on and get locked in tunnel vision on what Jesus is doing while ignoring everything else others do that is exactly the same. You have lost the debate on this particular point. I actually gracefully let you change the subject, but here you are just repeating it again and again. Your conclusion is massively flawed if you think that since Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant then that makes him the same as God, therefore Moses must be God, too, following your reasoning.

i know I mentioned Moses in a somewhat obscured sense as the mediator in Gal 3:19 but I thought you would recognize I mentioned that.

I have not said Jesus is shown here as the mediator of anything. He is the promisee along with Abraham. I can recognize the passage has been puzzling, but i don't intend for you to be confused on that point. Jesus is mentioned as the mediator 1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." But that is not what Paul shares here. So your argument against a misinterpretation of my analysis just means you would have to argue more specifically to the point of Jesus' divinity behind 3:20.

 

[synergy]

You got the wrong idea because you are still making an argument from an alleged "truth" that you are still trying to prove; since you don't have a description of the trinity in the Bible then you have gotten no where.

From the OT Theophanies to John Chapter 1 to the Early Church Fathers, the Holy Trinity stands supreme throughout all ages. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Stick to the betters in your religion. Most say the trinity is a mystery. Know your place.

My place is with the Apostles. They recorded the fact that Jesus called Himself Ἐγώ εἰμι which is God's name as recorded in Ex 3:14.

(Exo 3:14) καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς.

 

[MTMattie]

(John 6:46) not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One being from God, He has seen the Father.

Yes

No one has directly seen the Father. Instead, one can see the Image of the Father which is Jesus himself. That's what "He that has seen me has seen the Father" means.

Yes

One can see the Image of the Father which is Jesus himself. That is not modalism.

But what about Moses who did not see God entirely but who saw Gods hand and hind parts when he was walking away.

If He did not have a familiar back... Moses would have said.. and also the appearance of 2 feet he would never have stayed quiet.

 

[Runningman]

(John 6:46) not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One being from God, He has seen the Father.

No one has directly seen the Father. Instead, one can see the Image of the Father which is Jesus himself. That's what "He that has seen me has seen the Father" means.

One can see the Image of the Father which is Jesus himself. That is not modalism.

You have just proven that not even Jesus has actually seen the Father. Jesus isn't different than the others. Good luck finding the verse the proves otherwise.

 

[synergy]

You have just proven that not even Jesus has actually seen the Father. Jesus isn't different than the others. Good luck finding the verse the proves otherwise.

Huh? That's your assertion and as such that is for you to prove. I'm not going to do your work for you

 

[Runningman]

From the OT Theophanies to John Chapter 1 to the Early Church Fathers, the Holy Trinity stands supreme throughout all ages. And there is nothing you can do about it.

My place is with the Apostles. They recorded the fact that Jesus called Himself Ἐγώ εἰμι which is God's name as recorded in Ex 3:14.

(Exo 3:14) καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς.

Doesn't match what God said. "I am that I am" and "I am" aren't the same things. This argument of yours has already been refuted. Since the I AM in Exodus 3:14,15 is the God of Abraham, and Jesus isn't, then you don't have a point. Read Acts 3:13.

 

[Runningman]

Huh? That's your assertion and as such that is for you to prove. I'm not going to do your work for you

You see where this is going because you know what comes next after you try and fail. I will accept your refusal continue as your defeat.

 

[Runningman]

i know I mentioned Moses in a somewhat obscured sense as the mediator in Gal 3:19 but I thought you would recognize I mentioned that.

I have not said Jesus is shown here as the mediator of anything. He is the promisee along with Abraham. I can recognize the passage has been puzzling, but i don't intend for you to be confused on that point. Jesus is mentioned as the mediator 1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." But that is not what Paul shares here. So your argument against a misinterpretation of my analysis just means you would have to argue more specifically to the point of Jesus' divinity behind 3:20.

So Jesus isn't the mediator?

Galatians 3
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

 

[synergy]

You see where this is going because you know what comes next after you try and fail. I will accept your refusal continue as your defeat.

You think that Jesus is blindfolded when he sits on the same throne as his Father (Rev 3:21)?!? Only you could come up with scenarios like that to appease your heresies.

So now you're stuck with no verse to support your assertion. I will understand if you run away from this dilemma you put yourself into

 

[synergy]

Doesn't match what God said. "I am that I am" and "I am" aren't the same things. This argument of yours has already been refuted. Since the I AM in Exodus 3:14,15 is the God of Abraham, and Jesus isn't, then you don't have a point. Read Acts 3:13.

You are flat out denying the fact that the Apostles recorded Jesus as calling Himself Ἐγώ εἰμι which is God's name as recorded in Ex 3:14.

(Exo 3:14) καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν· καὶ εἶπεν Οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ Ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς.

Carry on with your denial of reality.

 

[mikesw]

So Jesus isn't the mediator?

Galatians 3
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

I have never heard of someone being a mediator between himself and another. Mediation is needed when the two parties cannot resolve a problem so that some outsider happens. To miss that point within the discussion is a severe error.