See above.
The Acts 2 church
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See above.
The Old Covenant has been replaced so your assertion is wrong.
2 Corinthians 3:10
For indeed, what had been glorious now has no glory because of the tremendously greater glory of what replaced it. (NET)
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Here is it again.
This is sound and I have rightly divided the Scripture on this question and won't be repeating myself.
Yesterday at 6:54 PM
Post #315
Peter was in the flesh. He leaned on his own understanding in the vanity of his mind.
You do know God is the ONE who baptizes into the body a persons place in the body, that God is the ONE who gives out any callings to any of His servants, and that man cannot in all biblical truth appoint anyone to the office of apostle. That's God's realm. Peter was definitely in error and operating totally in his flesh. Jesus was on the planet 40 days after His resurrection speaking to His disciples about things pertaining to the kingdom of God and it is extremely reasonable to conclude that if Christ wanted Matthias to be apostle, He would have chosen him Himself. But He didn't. Peter's use of the Psalms has nothing to do with Judas. Totally in the flesh and his error has cost the Church great injury since then. The RCC uses this to appoint and choose out their popes.
The disciples were commanded to go back to Jerusalem and WAIT until they be endued with power from on high. Peter didn't wait. He was disobedient. To teach one sits down. To officiate one stands up and Peter STOOD up when Jesus commanded the disciples to SEAT DOWN and wait:
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. Lk 24:49.
The Greek word for "tarry" is from Strong's:
[G#2523] kathizō another (active) form for [G#2516] (kathezomai); to seat down.
It is translated in the KJV as: sit 26 times, sit down 14 times, set 2 times, be set 2 times, be set down 2 times, continue 1 time, tarry 1 time.
The command is to "seat down" at Jerusalem and wait for the Promise Jesus told them about but Peter disobeyed and STOOD UP and led the disciples into error without instruction from Jeus or guidance from the Holy Spirit.
Another error was the mystical method of casting lots, which under the Law was the responsibility and ministry of the high priest. So what if they prayed. In Acts 13:1-4 in the sending out of Saul and Barnabas the Spirit spoke through the prophets (prophecy) and the disciples fasted (at least one day) and prayed and actually waited for a response from the Holy Spirit to confirm the earlier prophecy of at least the day before. This is the Biblical way to discern God's will in doctrine and practice.
Another thing is the word translated as "numbered" in Acts 1:17 and verse 26/. Two different words that go directly to understanding what Peter did and the Holy Spirit's response. Oh, yes, the Holy Spirit did finally respond to Peter's and the disciples' prayers but not in the way expected.
vs. 17 - Strong's [G#2674] "numbered" katarithmeō
from <G2596> (kata) and <G705> (arithmeo); to reckon among.
We get our English word "arithmetic" from this Greek word.
vs. 26 - Strong's [G#4785] "numbered" synkatapsēphizomai (compound word) from [G#4862] (sun) and a compound of [G#2596] (kata) and [G#5585] (psephizo); to count down in company with, i.e. enroll among.
In both Matthew 10:30 and Luke 12:7 is the word "arithmeo"
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Mt 10:30.
What does this mean? It means that Judas was numbered "among" the twelve but Matthias with the eleven.
"Arithmeo" is the counting of your hairs in your head among the other hairs [Judas]
while for Matthias it is taking a strand of hair from one head and placing it with the hairs of another head. That is Matthias.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. Acts 1:26.
The Holy Spirit's choice of words is His declaration that Judas was chosen by Jesus to be among the twelve and Matthias chosen by man to be with the eleven. God did not sanction this method nor the choice resulting from this method. Matthias was rejected as apostle by the Holy Spirit. The "hair" came from another body and not the body of Christ.
Anyone except me.
Yes. As I showed above.
Pete was in error. Tell me, who replaced James after Herod killed him in Acts 12?
That's because they assumed this was a good thing. They didn't know the command of Jesus in Luke 24:49 to go back to Jerusalem and WAIT, nor did they know as we do know now how an apostle in made apostle (by God) and the teachings of the Doctrines of Christ which are the doctrines of the Spirit. It was an early church and as Jewish Christians they had to learn a New Covenant and that didn't come over night.
The apostles doctrine was what Jesus taught the twelve, now eleven minus Judas. Matthias was not among them.
Sure. I can do that too. Any believer with their doctrine in the right places can. God does not reward disobedience.
Means nothing. Jail by association.
So have I.
It doesn't mention Matthias. You're adding to the bible.
Matthias wasn't mentioned. The Holy Spirit authorized the twelve (minus Judas), not Matthias. He was a man's choice.
Again no mention of Matthias.
Another guess. No mention of Matthias.
Another guess. No mention of Matthias.
And let me also assist you in this: the office of apostle is a spiritual office but Peter gives a natural qualification of merely being physically present from the time of Jesus' baptism to His resurrection. Matthias could have been among the mentioned 120.
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. Acts 1:22.
And still one more thing:
We do this thing too when we pray to God and ask His guidance. We give him an either/or.
23 And they appointed two [either/or], Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. Acts 1:23.
But God is not restricted to what we submit to Him by way to answer our prayers. I stopped doing that a long, long time ago because God plays baseball sometimes. Remember Genesis: "in the big-inning" and mostly all His answer to my prayers usually come out of "left field!"
Irrelevant. See post 335.
Again, no mention of the majority of the twelve.
What a terrible argument of yours.
Total garbage.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The First Covenant with Abraham is an everlasting Covenant.
The Mosaic Covenant is still in effect in spiritual application.
First, I presume you're Gentile.
Second the covenant with Abraham is with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his descendants, a people that would be called the children of Jacob/Israel and later "Jew" or "Jewish."Third, Paul said correctly the Mosaic Law was spiritual (Rom. 7:14), and the Law that God promised to put in our inward parts is the Holy Spirit since the Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit.
As far as the outward practice of sacrifice that is done away, but the spiritual aspect of the ceremonial laws within a believer's life God uses to assist in worship. And I won't get into that right now.
We still need to obey the Law that says "thou shalt have no other gods before [us], and not "take the Name of the Lord in vain."
Your Scripture in 2 Corinthians is speaking of replacement of letter for spirit, not of the law itself. All that was written in stone and what was written by Moses instructed and commanded the children of Israel from without, the Law, or should I say, the fulfillment of the Law which is spiritual in the Person of the Holy Spirit instructs and commands the believer from within dealing with our minds and conscience.
You are misunderstanding what was "replaced" in Paul's words:
6 Who also hath made us able mministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(KJV) 2 Cor. 3:6–18.
It was the type and shadow/letter that was replaced by the Person/spirit of the Law God has put in our inward parts.
GeneZ
Well-known member
None of the disciples were "Christian" until the transformation at Pentecost.
Acts 11 that transformation was already in motion.
Mattathias was voted in before the church age began.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things
have passed away; behold, all things have become new." 2 Cor 5:17
The Jews did not have the Holy Spirit taking up permanent residence/ indwelling in their body.
The Spirit of God in the OT yet indwelled the Temple.
All Jews who believed in the Lord before the Church age began were still Jewish in their spiritual function.
At best only a few OT Jews had power imparted by the Spirit, but never by making that Jewish body into a permanent Temple of the Spirit.
In the Church age all believers are given the indwelling Holy Spirit. Even the spiritually inept are a new creation in Christ if they truly believed
in Jesus. Abraham believed in the one who was to be born "Jesus." Abraham was not a Christian. That could have only happened if Abraham believed after the Cross and glorification of Christ!
On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as
Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he
meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been
glorified." John 7:37-39
No one before Jesus ascended and was glorified were yet "Christian."
No "new creation in Christ" walked the earth before Pentecost happened!
Matthias was simply an OT apostle at best. He was not called of God like Paul was in the church age!
In Christ ................
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The Mosaic covenant has been abrogated (Hebrews 8:13).
Then don't do it.
Thanks for making this easy for me.
It's not surprising that you run away.
GeneZ
Well-known member
The twelfth apostle in the Jewish age. Not voted in as a Christian.
Its like picking a Jewish minion for sitting Shivah for a Jewish funeral.
https://www.goldsteinsfuneral.com/s...s derived from the,, spouse, sibling or child.
I grew up Jewish. What you say about Matthias makes no sense for the Jewish age transitioning into the Church age.
Whatever Matthias was during the Jewish age was no guarantee to continue into the Church age unless God personally
called Matthias. Paul was called of God to be an apostle!
"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God..." 1 Cor 1:1
It does not say...
"Paul, voted in by you guys to be an apostle..."
Peter did it again.
Before that, he denied Christ three times.
Peter was impulsive! He added to what was said too easily.
After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet,
and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded.
Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”
Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”
Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!”
John 13:5-9
Peter was a work in progress..
He made many typical mistakes that we see immature believers make.
Peter is an example of how God is gracious towards all who believe.
Gracious even towards those who thought it a good idea to vote someone to have a gift that God did not call him for.
You ask me to refute you? But you never refute the refutations I give.
.............
GeneZ
Well-known member
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The Hebrew word is "Messias." The Greek word is "Christos." The English is "Christ."
Every Hebrew/Jew in covenant that awaited the fulfillment of God's Promise to send their Messiah/Messias/Christos/Christ would be called "Christian."
Matthias was a choice by Peter and the rest without guidance of the Holy Spirit, totally led by their flesh and a mistake. By the time James died in Acts 12 that method and erroneous practice was abandoned. Peter was in error.
OK. What is your comment?
I agree.
And Messiah-ites, or "Christ-ian awaiting their Messiah. King David was [Greek/English] "Christian.
But you agree the New Covenant Church is a continuation of the "Great Congregation" of the children of Israel in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle. And the New Covenant Church was founded by Jews.
Whatever is not recorded towards what you say we cannot know, at least I haven't learned it through Scripture. Abraham was not a Christian for the prophecy came later in Deuteronomy after they escaped Egypt.
Yes, I see the same Jesus.
You're too strict on this. Anyone of those covenant Jews hoping and awaiting their King would be considered a Christian since they awaited Messiah/Christ.
Loosen up, there, Gene.
Tru dat.
Matthias was an error.
The office and calling of "apostle" (sent) is a spiritual office/function. There was no Holy Spirit. You say this.
Also, Peter provides a natural qualification for a spiritual office, that is, all one had to do was witness Jesus' baptism on through His resurrection. All one had to have were EYEBALLS.
Ah men.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You know, clear Scripture doesn't work on a biased and blinded mind.
I'm not going to beat you over the head and repeat myself.
I post the Scripture.
Receive or reject. There is no medium.
Still dodging.
I reject your twisting of the Scripture.
The Scripture is fine.
Don't equate the Scripture with your ability to twist it.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Christian is body of Christ.
What you described was what Jews were who believed the Messiah was yet to come.
Abraham would never be called a "Christian." Nor, was Moses.
In contrast... a Christian is someone who has become a New Creation in Christ.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away;
behold, all things have become new." 2 Cor 5:17
The Greek translated , 'new creation' means something specific.
It means something new that never was before. Nothing like it before!
This is the new creation, the Kainos Ktisis. We are a new breed, species, creature,
and creation that has never existed on earth before Christ’s resurrection."
https://1john417.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/kainos-ktisis-new-creation/
There were no Christians until the Church age began at Pentecost.
We have been made to be a new spiritual species!
If it were not for my pastor who taught us from the Greek I would have never known that.
grace and peace ...................
GeneZ
Well-known member
Your insistence upon you having made a valid point (after being refuted in various ways) reminds me of this....
