The 5 Points of Calvinism

[Don Miller]

If our salvation hinges on anything but the finished work of Christ on the cross, we are in trouble. Or, at best, we run the risk of being in trouble. If you and I have any part in maintaining our salvation, it will be difficult to live with much assurance. Hope, yes; assurance, no.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

Eternal Security is that in Christ we have assurance of our Salvation. If Christ came to seek and to save that which was lost, and yet we can somehow become unsaved—and therefore undo what Christ came to do—would it not have been wise for God to take us home to heaven the moment we are saved in order to insure we make it? Isn’t it unnecessarily risky to force us to stay here if we could lose our Eternal life?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Corporate election not individual


While Calvinists typically think Romans 9 teaches unconditional individual election, many scholars now think Paul rather had corporate election in mind. Corporate election was the view of the Old Testament and Second Temple Judaism; Paul and the rest of the New Testament only used corporate language when speaking explicitly of election unto salvation; and the sociohistorical context of Paul and the early Church was collectivist. Speaking of Rom 9:10–13 and corporate election, distinguished Calvinist scholar Douglas Moo conceded that corporate election is what one would expect Paul to have in mind, “an expectation,” he pointed out, “that seems to be confirmed by the OT texts that Paul quotes.” But it is important to specify the nature of the corporate election in view, because various conceptions of it have been posited by scholars as Paul’s view in Romans 9.

The best view of corporate election recognizes that the election of God’s people in the Old Testament was a consequence of the choice of an individual who represented the group, the corporate head and representative. In other words, the group was elected in the corporate head, as a consequence of its association with this corporate representative


Brian J. Abasciano, “Romans 9 and Calvinism,” in Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique

Translation: I don't believe in predestination, so I found another way to interpret the text.

 

[atpollard]

Corporate election not individual


While Calvinists typically think Romans 9 teaches unconditional individual election, many scholars now think Paul rather had corporate election in mind. Corporate election was the view of the Old Testament and Second Temple Judaism; Paul and the rest of the New Testament only used corporate language when speaking explicitly of election unto salvation; and the sociohistorical context of Paul and the early Church was collectivist. Speaking of Rom 9:10–13 and corporate election, distinguished Calvinist scholar Douglas Moo conceded that corporate election is what one would expect Paul to have in mind, “an expectation,” he pointed out, “that seems to be confirmed by the OT texts that Paul quotes.” But it is important to specify the nature of the corporate election in view, because various conceptions of it have been posited by scholars as Paul’s view in Romans 9.

The best view of corporate election recognizes that the election of God’s people in the Old Testament was a consequence of the choice of an individual who represented the group, the corporate head and representative. In other words, the group was elected in the corporate head, as a consequence of its association with this corporate representative


Brian J. Abasciano, “Romans 9 and Calvinism,” in Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique

Technically, taken to its logical conclusion, we are all damned for breaking with the Catholic Church (as Rome teaches).
Salvation is only found in the Bride of Christ ... the One True Church with Peter as its Head (Christ on Earth).

Is that really what you meant?
THAT is "corporate salvation".

 

[Don Miller]

Translation: I don't believe in predestination, so I found another way to interpret the text.

Actually it's a Biblical and Theological Critique of the misinformation found in tulip.

 

[charismaticlady]

Col 3:3-4 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

• I believe that I WILL also appear with Him in glory, like scripture promised.

Phil 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

• I believe that God will complete the work He began.

2Tim 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

• I believe that the Lord will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom.

1Pet 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

• I believe that my inheritance IS imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for me.
• I believe that I am being guarded by God's power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed.

Jn 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

• I believe that Jesus will lose NONE of His sheep.
• I believe EVERYONE who looks and believes, Jesus WILL raise up.

Jn 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

• I believe that there will be no snatching out of hands.

Rom 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

• I believe the NOTHING will separate.

Eph 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

• I believe we ARE sealed with a promise that will not be broken.

I am a little fuzzy on the details of OSAS.
Is THAT OSAS or not?

I can't answer that question about OSAS. Through the years on different Christian forum sites I've seen some claim that once they are saved, the blood of Jesus hides all their sins they commit from the Father. The Father only sees the imputed righteousness of His Son. That is heretical.

 

[civic]

I can't answer that question about OSAS. Through the years on different Christian forum sites I've seen some claim that once they are saved, the blood of Jesus hides all their sins they commit from the Father. The Father only sees the imputed righteousness of His Son. That is heretical.

It goes right along with the same mentality as this below which I’ve seen all over the forums.

Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound .

Might it always be many proclaim I’m the chief of sinners and many claim that too.

 

[charismaticlady]

It goes right along with the sane mentality as this below which I’ve seen all over the forums.

Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound .

Might it always be many proclaim I’m the chief of sinners and many claim that too.

That is why Jesus wrote to the Sardis Church of the Reformation: "you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead."

 

[atpollard]

I can't answer that question about OSAS. Through the years on different Christian forum sites I've seen some claim that once they are saved, the blood of Jesus hides all their sins they commit from the Father. The Father only sees the imputed righteousness of His Son. That is heretical.

Heretical is a strong word that I am more reluctant to use than most people seem … especially based on someone saying what someone else believes. However, I will agree that what you claim they believe sounds a bit “nonsensical” in light of Jesus pretty clear teaching …

Luke 6:43-45 [NASB]
"For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.”

It sounds to me like they are trying to harvest bad fruit and claim the tree is good … that’s just foolish talk. If God changed your heart … then IT IS CHANGED! [where I come from, we call that SAVED]

 

[atpollard]

Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound .

Paul said that … the answer was no. [Romans 6:1-4]
Of course John clarified that even if we do sin, we have an advocate that will forgive us. [1 John 1:5-2:2]

Might it always be many proclaim I’m the chief of sinners and many claim that too.

Of course Paul settled that, he said that HE IS the chief of sinners [1 Timothy 1:15], so we just have to get in line behind Paul.

 

[charismaticlady]

Heretical is a strong word that I am more reluctant to use than most people seem … especially based on someone saying what someone else believes. However, I will agree that what you claim they believe sounds a bit “nonsensical” in light of Jesus pretty clear teaching …

Luke 6:43-45 [NASB]
"For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.”

It sounds to me like they are trying to harvest bad fruit and claim the tree is good … that’s just foolish talk. If God changed your heart … then IT IS CHANGED! [where I come from, we call that SAVED]

A doctrine of demons contradicts what Jesus says and does.

 

[charismaticlady]

Heretical is a strong word that I am more reluctant to use than most people seem … especially based on someone saying what someone else believes. However, I will agree that what you claim they believe sounds a bit “nonsensical” in light of Jesus pretty clear teaching …

Luke 6:43-45 [NASB]
"For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.”

It sounds to me like they are trying to harvest bad fruit and claim the tree is good … that’s just foolish talk. If God changed your heart … then IT IS CHANGED! [where I come from, we call that SAVED]

Jude heard them also.

4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[atpollard]

A doctrine of demons contradicts what Jesus says and does.

Jude heard them also.

4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

If they believe as you claim, then I share your concerns. However, as a Baptist, a believer in the Doctrines of Grace (God chooses people, men do not choose God), and someone familiar with Pentecostals, I am only too aware of how honest biblical opinions can be misrepresented by those seeking to demonize your position. The idea of sinning and being forgiven can also refer to the honest teaching from the Apostles Paul and John intended to fill those STRIVING for Holiness and living in terror of being one slip away from damnation that ...

And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. - John [John 3:14-18 NLT]​

​

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love. No power in the sky above or in the earth below--indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Paul [Romans 8:38-39 NLT]​

​

This is the message we heard from Jesus and now declare to you: God is light, and there is no darkness in him at all. So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practicing the truth. But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. ​

If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts. ​

My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous. He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins--and not only our sins but the sins of all the world. ​

And we can be sure that we know him if we obey his commandments. If someone claims, "I know God," but doesn't obey God's commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth. But those who obey God's word truly show how completely they love him. That is how we know we are living in him. Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did. - John [1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:1-6 NLT]​

Thus there is a path of BALANCE and ASSURANCE. We are to walk in the LIGHT without needing to live in fear that one misstep will cast His Children into darkness.

• Eternal life and no judgement to those who believe.
• Inseparable love.
• Living in spiritual light.
• If we confess sin, Jesus is faithful to forgive sin.
• We need not sin, but we have an Advocate if we do sin.
• Obeying His commandments (LOVE) allows US to be sure that we are living in the truth - living in Him.
• So we should live as Jesus did (in love and not fear), (in mercy and not judgement) and (in grace and not hate).

Since I fail more often that I would like, I NEED that assurance and love and grace.
All that I am saying in defense of OSAS teaching, is what John and Paul said: Once we are His, we are His. Once we are Loved, we are Loved.

Praise God and AMEN!

 

[Presby02]

Isn't that OSAS?

Nope

 

[Presby02]

That would be corporate election those that join the church that choose Christ.

No such thing.

That would be corporate election those that join the church that choose Christ.

God does the choosing. NOWHERE does scripture teach you were chosen because you chose Him

 

[Presby02]

You do become elect when you accept Christ and abide in him. When you become a member of his church.

The election of humans occurs only in union with Jesus Christ. Jesus himself is first of all the elect of God. Concerning Jesus, God states, “Here is my servant whom I have chosen”. Christ, as the elect, is the foundation of our election. Only in union with Christ do we become members of the elect . No one is elect apart from union with Christ through faith.

Election is “in him…through his blood”. God purposed before creation to form a people through Christ’s redemptive death on the cross. Thus election is grounded on Christ’s sacrificial death to save us from our sins through the form of corporate election.

Election in Christ is primarily corporate, an election of a people. The elect are called “the body of Christ”, “my church”, “a people belonging to God", and the “bride” of Christ. Therefore, election is corporate and embraces individual persons only as they identify and associate themselves with the body of Christ, the true church.

Incorrect. God does the electing. You are not elected because you chose to become elect.

 

[civic]

Incorrect. God does the electing. You are not elected because you chose to become elect.

one is only elect when they are IN CHRIST- To be in Christ once must believe first- Eph 1:13.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Presby02]

one is only elect when they are IN CHRIST- To be in Christ once must believe first- Eph 1:13.

hope this helps !!!

Nope. NOWHERE is belief stated to be a condition for one to be elect.

 

[civic]

Nope. NOWHERE is belief stated to be a condition for one to be elect.

The elect are only the ones who become in Christ via faith. See Eph 1:13

Next

 

[atpollard]

The elect are only the ones who become in Christ via faith. See Eph 1:13

Next

Ephesians 1:13 [NKJV] In Him you also [trusted], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

This verse says nothing about ELECT or ELECTION.
Not Next.

These talk about the ELECT:

Romans 11:7 [NKJV] What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Since ELECT can also means CALLED or CHOSEN in theology:

Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV] And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called [according to [His] purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[civic]

Ephesians 1:13 [NKJV] In Him you also [trusted], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

This verse says nothing about ELECT or ELECTION.
Not Next.

These talk about the ELECT:

Romans 11:7 [NKJV] What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Since ELECT can also means CALLED or CHOSEN in theology:

Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV] And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called [according to [His] purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Are the “elect “ the same ones as those who are chosen and predestined ? Yes or no